Miasms and Soul - my Dirty Dozen questions

[Shannon Nelson]

With apologies to those from other than Christian backgrounds... But I
think it is interesting in its own right too, and perhaps others can
draw parallels with other traditions.

I was at a (wonderful!) Will Taylor conference this past weekend, on
the topic of miasms. Regarding psora, just for fun let me post what he
said (more paraphrased than quoted):

to explain it simply, but basically psora consists of Deficiency,
Hypersensitivity, and Functional disorders.
manifestation of primeval sin. (???I thought it had started with
Kent???)
you are separated from God."

Will repertorizes "the symptoms of Adam". "I'm going to leave Eve out
of this, because I think she's been framed." )

Ailments from anticipation
Anxiety
Beside oneself
Anxiety of conscience
Anxiety about the future
Anxiety about salvation
Delusion, he is going to lose his fortune
Despair
Estranged from his family
Fear of being damned
Fear that something will happen
Fear of poverty
Forsaken feeling

And this (ta-da!) reps out to psora.

*****
Here's my own quibble: I'd say that the susceptibility (?= miasm?) was
already *there*, or else Eve wouldn't have listened to the snake, and
Adam wouldn't have listened to Eve, and they wouldn't have developed
this tremendous "itch" for forbidden experience. So rather than
"original sin", I would call it "intrinsic to the human condition."
And many different people have many different theories about that...
Some say that "being good" is meaningless unless you have the choice to
"be bad", but choose not to. (Ignorance or intimidation versus
conscious embrace of "what's right".)

Shannon

[Piet Guijt]

Shannon wrote;
Hi Shannon,

This is very similar to the way I see this.
Sin is missing the way the creator meant us to be and to behave.
But I guess it was not the "itch" for forbidden experience, but rather the
ego drive to be as God.
Yes, God gave the humans a free will to choose between being good or being
bad.
Everything in life has two sides, this is the same for psora.
Psora is not only the negative limiting tendency, but also a tendency toward
freedom.

Kind regards, Piet

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Piet,
Maybe there's not such a big difference between "itch for forbidden
experience" and "ego drive to be as God." But I think I'd agree, your
phrase is maybe closer to what I actually had in mind.

"Tendency toward freedom" because it impels us to seek wholeness?
Shannon

[muthu kumar]

Shannon- Thanks for posting Will Taylor's conference notes on psora.
That is his "theory" and kind of proves what I have been telling
which is - there is no one correct theory about miasms and all
masters have their own version of it. Even Rajan sankaran has his own
theory about it and only uses it as a "useful classification" (he
calls it that) ( so that he can discuss his theory in detail rather
than the way hahnemann viewed it).

Regarding the analysis of Symptoms of Adam - this is typical
conference stuff and that is the only value to it... You can as well
call this Symptoms of Sadam ( if he were a little repentant)...and
still make sense of it... or make no sense of it- It proves nothing...

Instead of taking an absolute approach to sin and redemption - what
is sin for a particular person, why is it so, what would be the price
etc, would be a much better approach for each individual and more
meaningful...

After Darwin, Mendel and others, how much of this "sin" and "soul" is
directly relevant to practice? I am not saying this to hurt any
feelings but from a strict homeo practice point of view.

Whether psora is ego drive to become God etc. is only based on some
particular religious approach. When Will Taylor says - psora is huge
etc. it has become so huge that it has become kind of undefinable.

The development of disease/ miasm does not need an argument with
Soul, Fall from grace etc. If we consider life being something
dynamic and that Darwinian evolution as true at least partially, most
of the phenomena ( including chronic taint) can be explained. Life
and vital force are constantly interacting and experimenting with the
atmosphere ( dynamic give and take). What had worked as a solution to
a problem at one time becomes a liability in another ( remember
Sankaran's delusions)...( for example - evolutionary theory of
obesity states that obesity was a good survival mechanism for "lean"
times... but now when abundance of food is present it has become a
problem...so on and so forth... SO human beings probably "inherited"
psora from other previous life forms - the animals which had a full
blown psora might have died out totally ( because psora might have
paved the way for other diseases and the species could have died)
whereas man with not full blown psora might have survived...So
instead of saying mankind is psoric and has sinned etc, and this is
because of some spiritual connection between humans and god being
cut etc. why cannot we say man is psoric but still survives as a
species whereas the animals which were more psoric died out...so in
fact man's going against nature and fighting nature is what makes him
uniquely human and makes him/her survive instead of dying out?

but see all of this is just theory and I can argue for and against
all of this ad nauseum..

Some people in this forum suggested that plants also have miasms -
they should probably take a look at what Kent says- he contrasts
human beings with psora ( "moral lepers ") to plants.. and talks
about the glorious plants as against the wretched humans-

quote:(JTKent)
"The human race today walking the face of the earth is but
little .better than a moral leper.
Such is the state of the human mind at the present day.
To put it another way, everyone is psoric."...

..."This was not done in one generation, but has been accumulating
upon the face of the earth so long as we have a history of man.

Otherwise man would not be sick, for he should be a perfect animal in
his animal nature.
Look at the perfection of all things put upon the earth ; see the
plants, how perfect they are ; but man by his thinking evils and
willing falses has entered upon a state wherein he has lost his
freedom, his internal order, and is undergoing changes which the
animal kingdom in its period, and the vegetable kingdom in its
period, did not take on"...

At the same time - according to Will Taylor - deficiencies,
functional disorders are also miasmatic ( then even animals and
plants could become miasmatic...)

My soul just yearns for the deliverance of homeopathy and homeopaths
from all these miasmata...
Psora is huge, multi-faceted, and it does it a huge
disservice to try
primary
delusion that
out
was
and
developed
condition."
that...
choice to

[Shannon Nelson]

Actually I had not said "man is psoric and has sinned", but rather had
said perhaps "psora" is as good a name as any for an inherent quality
of humankind which causes us to feel and pursue our individuality /
separateness even at great cost, yet also yearn back for wholeness.
Well, I didn't *say* that, but maybe that's more or less what I
meant...

In any case I completely agree, this is all pretty much "for fun". I
recall that you don't like (or "don't believe in") miasms, but seem to
achieve the same sort of bigger-picture analysis thru other means.
That's fine with me! I'll carry on with my consideration of miasms,
because that's how I've been trained, and tto me, thus far, it appears
useful. And for those who don't need it, more power to you!
Cheers,
Shannon

[muthu kumar]

Oh I did not mean you said that - I was taking the whole thread of
discussion into account when I replied. I do not have problems with
others talking about miasms or using it for whatever it is worth. (
Even I was taught the same way anyway).
Yearning for wholeness or separateness is probably a spin we put on
these...if we claim animals and plants can be psoric... We cannot
say plants are striving for wholeness as well, could we?.. Since I
am not a plant psychologist or theosophist or even anthroposophist I
cannot say anything about this - nor do I think we have to have
these eminent qualifications for practising homeopathy and cure
people , thankfully
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Robert & Shannon Nelson
wrote:
had
quality
individuality /
wholeness.
fun". I
seem to
means.
miasms,
appears
psora.
his own

[Piet Guijt]

Shannon wrote:

"Tendency toward freedom" because it impels us to seek wholeness?

Hi Shannon,

Yes, this is even better!

Kind regards, Piet

[doctorleelah2h]

Hi Simon,
A very valid point, and is the reason why I asked the first questions
of Theresa.
You said: "+ we must also ask whether there is a difference between
beliefs ( about God , existence, worship) etc and religion?"

A TRUE/AUTHENTIC experience of God is the same for every human being.
religion may have packaged it differently. The PROBLEM is to know WHAT
is an authentic expereince of God. IT is not magic or emotional and it
depends on faith. IT is an expereince of the soul.
Then the next obvious quesiton is WHERE or HOW do I expereince this...
but that is another story.

Then you said:
"This then would lead on to the questions of whether homeopaths could

THis is ALL IMPORTANT. Where do we draw the line as homeopaths? Are we
aware of when we are crossing that line? What is this line? It is
something I"m very interested in understanding right now - which is
why I asked all the questions in the first place.
Leela
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Simon King wrote:

[Simon King LCPH MARH]

I agree that it's an important question.

I also think it's VERY important to be acutely aware that patients
often come in a highly vulnerable and suggestable state, even if they
don't appear that way obviously on the outside, they may be on the
inside. It is therefore beholden upon the practitioner not to impose
their beliefs consciously or unconsciously, by offering opinion,by
judgements etc.

How easy is it to respond to a question implicit or covert placed by
the patient on some aspect in their life? The moment one does so the
chances of influencing such a vulnerable's decision making is high,
and because of the nature of such a patient they will create just
such a situation whereby we can inadvertently collude in their
reality. Collusion should not be acceptable to us, but are we aware
how easy that is to do?
E.g. what if the PX asks a question AS IF what they refer to is
something they believe but seek assurances and we concur with that
belief; but they stated their position AS IF it were truly theirs as
fact, but actually they were testing the ground to see if it's OK
(requesting permission) to challenge their parents or their
religion's or their culture's dictums, which they may be loathe to
transgress, the conflict of which nonetheless creates their dis-ease.

If we truly respect the patient, having nothing but compassion,love
and trust for their soul, then how can we judge their reality or 'path?

Yet This we do the instant we agree with or deny their perspective.
There is a big difference between walking with them on a journey of
self discovery, and aiding and abbetting their dis-ease.

Whether it is abusive or not may depend whether it happens in full
awareness or whether it's the subject of projection,
transference,etc, and what the Pxs actual experience is.

If we are 100% secure in our selves ( I won't say 'beliefs' because
beliefs and experience may be borne one of the other or alternatively
what exclude each other) then we may be 100% secure in the integrity
of the Px. If we are not 100% secure in our 'self' then what sort of
esteem do we hold others in, that we are prepared to 'share' our
assumptions or speculations with them?

They know what they need from us AS HOMEOPATHS, it is expressed
through the gamut of Sx that we recognise in Homeopathy, we don't
need to impose our opinions.

Thirst for fulfillment is not something that can be 'cured' by
homeopathy, so homeopaths should, IN THEIR PRACTICE OF HOMEOPATHY,
not pretend to such lofty claims as to cure the soul, or treating the
dead.
Simon

[Caro]

Amen. Oops!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]