Minutus

Thanks, Simon!
I guess it's the "intense" and "intimidating" parts that I thought
contradictory with "cheerful", but on thinking, I see that doesn't
necessarily follow.

I did find Dr. Shah's website--but does anyone know why none of the
links on that page are working? I keep getting "Requested URL ... was
not found on this server."
Shannon

I find it difficult imagining Aurum as being cheerful enough to the
extent you would use it as a rubric, i.e. consider it as part of the
case, regardless of the stages that Aurum might present as. From the
little that Vera gave us for this case - responsibility, cheerful and
uncomplaining, constipation, hair loss, desire for sweets with an
apparent <<< 4pm - I would be leaning more towards a cancer diathesis
than a syphilitic one.

Best wishes, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I should say that I wasn't recommending Aur in the context of this
case just responding to Shannon's question
Simon

Hi Joy, Shannon,

My twopennth worth ... I would include "cheerful", as outside of the interview, the
compensatory behaviour is often one that intimates cannot penetrate and are
fooled by --- until they throw themselves in front of the train, or jump off the
bridge (latter is an actual case experience, discussed with me by a colleague). I
can't comment on the case here however, as I have not been following this thread
closely, and I don't think the whole case was presented? I can't remember.

best wishes, Barbara

PS: I really must post the suspected ringworm case over the weekend !

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Joy Lucas wrote:

But the compensating factors for Aurum are not likely to be cheerful
imo, they would take the form of duty, industry, ambition, lone leisure
activities, etc. You might get a peculiar coupling of a dark sort of
cheer but this will be coupled with other extremely dark thoughts, e.g.
'cheerful when thinking of death' or 'laughing alternating with
loathing of life'. This is the metal, the muriaticum will have a
different persona.

If an emotion such as cheerfulness is strong enough in a case to be
used then it should be whether it is for compensating purposes or not.
I stress these points because I really think you will 'know' when you
have someone who needs Aurum whether they come to you in the early
stages of their state or the later 'jumping off the bridge' state.

Look forward to the case.

Best wishes, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Joy,

But that 'cheerful' rubric incorporates not just the sub-rubric 'cheerful when
thinking of death' there are a lot more besides:

MIND; ANGER, irascibility; general; alternating with; cheerfulness (K2, SRI-29,
SRI-131, G2) (15) *
MIND; CHEERFULNESS, gaiety, happiness; general (K10, K65, SRI-128, G9,
G52) (307) **
MIND; CHEERFULNESS, gaiety, happiness; general; alternating with;
indignation, bursts of (K66, SRI-132, G52) (4) *
MIND; CHEERFULNESS, gaiety, happiness; general; alternating with;
moroseness (SRI-133) (25) *
MIND; CHEERFULNESS, gaiety, happiness; general; alternating with; passion,
burst of (K11, SRI-132, G9) (5) **
MIND; CHEERFULNESS, gaiety, happiness; general; alternating with;
peevishness (2) **
MIND; CHEERFULNESS, gaiety, happiness; general; alternating with; sadness
(K11, K66, K76, SRI-134, G9, G52) (69) **
MIND; CHEERFULNESS, gaiety, happiness; general; alternating with; violence
(K11, SRI-134, G9) (3) *
MIND; CHEERFULNESS, gaiety, happiness; general; daytime (K11, K65,
SRI-129, G9, G52) (8) *
MIND; CHEERFULNESS, gaiety, happiness; general; evening (K11, K66,
SRI-130, G9, G52) (77) *
MIND; CHEERFULNESS, gaiety, happiness; general; evening; bed, in (K66,
SRI-131, G52) (30) *
MIND; CHEERFULNESS, gaiety, happiness; general; death, while thinking of
(K11, SRI-136, G9) (1) *
MIND; DELIRIUM; cheerful, gay (K18, SRI-213, G15, G16) (17) *
MIND; DELIRIUM; cheerful, gay; typhus, in (1) **
MIND; IRRITABILITY; general; alternating with; cheerfulness (K11, K58,
SRI-132, SRI-659, G46) (30) **

Surely as human beings we possess ALL traits in varying quantities ? Out of 307
listed in my MacRep, I'm not surprised that Aurum is capable of cheerfulness too,
as polarity plays a part also. If your point was about using it for repping, then I
haven't done so, but it was noted when reading MM for differentials because the
degree of laughter didn't feel right.

I have experience of Aurum, so I do "know" how it feels, in its various 'stages' and
'states'. I have also needed it myself. From my Aurum-needing px, I noticed a
good deal of rationalisation going on: they would try to resolve their problem from
the mind, and not from the heart. Compensatory behaviour can be unique to any
individual - isn't that what we seek to characterise after all? I wouldn't personally
expect someone to keep to the rules of an outlined Aurum-type ! Experience is,
after all, only limited to the number of provers reporting their sx.

I have seen "cheerful", especially one case where the father had committed
suicide when the px was young. She felt she should put a brave face on it, but
underneath was this turmoil of not being good enough for him to have stayed
around for her (complete with the ambition, duty, & work ethic you describe), plus
there was an implicit feeling of 'permission' that it was ok to shuffle (or jump!) off
this mortal coil. I would only use it in 'compensating' behaviour. Usually there is a
sense of forced smiling or laughter, e.g. -

MIND; LAUGHING; general; talking, when (K62, SRI-705, G49) (2)

or the opposite, possibly as a release of tension, etc.

MIND; LAUGHING; general; convulsive, spasmodic (K62, SRI-704, G49) (52)
MIND; LAUGHING; general; hysterical (SRI-700) (48)

My px portrayed the latter.

Thought-provoking discussion --- enjoying.

best wishes, Barbara

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Joy Lucas wrote:

On Aug 12, 2005, at 9:56 AM, Joy Lucas wrote:
Actually I've seen aur and nat-m mixed (given when the other was
needed) at least several times. Also in my own past I have a couple of
periods (years apart) where I was told confidently that aurum was not
"my remedy", but the nat-m given instead did not act, but aurum acted
very decisively. So I'm not so sure you'll necessarily "know"...
(Whether I myself was heavy or intense in those periods I don't know...
But I'm guessing not, and perhaps that was why I was judged to be
"not-Aurum"?)

I've also given aur where nat-m was needed, and also vice versa (in
spite of doing the best dd I could on the two!)

Shannon

Shannon wrote:

needed) at least several times. Also in my own past I have a couple of
periods (years apart) where I was told confidently that aurum was not
"my remedy", but the nat-m given instead did not act, but aurum acted
very decisively. So I'm not so sure you'll necessarily "know"...
(Whether I myself was heavy or intense in those periods I don't know...
But I'm guessing not, and perhaps that was why I was judged to be
"not-Aurum"?)

-----------------------------------

As we all know, this situation calls for being able to nut out the necessary
differences between the two rems which is not easy and the bane (maybe a
little strong a sentiment) of the homoeopath's practice ---- and this can
be helped by looking at the essence of each of the rems and the themes ---
the Scholten/Sankaran approach can be very helpful here and being able to
make use of these and other thematic and essence methodolgy could change the
outcome considerably. I have found adding this to my repertoire invaluable
to find not only obscure rems from a family or series/stage, but to just
zero in on the larger remedies that may come up for consideration.

Also, there are some good comparisons of these two rems to be found eg.,
Candegabe which I post below, and Bailey also discusses these rems and their
differences in his book.

Nat mur and Aurum sit in very different parts of the periodic table,
different stages, and different series. Looking at these aspects alone
should very clearly show you where a client lies.

Another useful tool can be found in the computer reps -- extracting rubrics
and comparing in the various ways

eg., there are over 300 common and exclusive MIND rubrics for Aurum and
Nat-m but Nat-m on own has over 600 so here there are around 300 rubrics
that will point to a difference.

Also, I have a Materia Medica of the Mind (Segahls) which points out the
rubrics that a remedy has exclusively as well as those shared with other
rems. This also helps to further refine the search in some instances. Eg.,
Aurum has around 25 rubrics with sub rubrics that are exclusive to Aurum.
Best

Robyn

P.S. Re the topic that this subject was originally about, I personally don't
feel that craving sugar at 4pm is going to be of much use in finding a
remedy for this client --- as has been offered by others, there are quite a
few simple reasons for craving sugar that could easily be eliminated by BSL
readings and further questioning.

--------------------
Candegabe, E.F., Comparative Materia Medica
Nat-m/Aurum

Aurum

- Aurum has resentment (`Malicious', 1), aversion to company (2 ), anger
with silent grief (5) and ailments from disappointed love (6) but lacks the
need for affection (7) and the tendency to brood on the past (4) that
characterise Natrum Mur.
- Aurum is not aggravated by consolation (3), because the central issues
for this remedy are his feelings of abandonment and gnawing guilt (`Anxiety,
conscience, of', 12).
- Natrum Mur., on the other hand, hates fuss and consolation as he feels
that it is only an attempt to compensate for the love that was denied him in
the past.

- The anxiety of conscience, an essential component of Aurum's personality,
is so great that he feels as if he had committed a crime.
- He is self-destructive, angry with himself and so unhappy that he wants
to kill himself.
- He is easily offended (8), violent (10), full of hatred (11) and apt to
blame others (9) with syphilitic rage and indignation.
- However, these symptoms are secondary to the feelings of guilt that they
provoke.
- Nobody can feel quite as worthless as Aurum, when he berates himself for
making mistakes, neglecting his duty and losing the affection and estimation
of his family and friends - and nobody can feel quite as suicidal as a
result.
- In Natrum Mur. the symptoms of hurt, blame and anger are more prominent,
and he is not suicidal.

- Aurum is afraid of robbers (14), easily frightened (15) and easily
startled (`Starting, noise, from', 16).
- His negativity comes out in self-destructive anger rather than in the
fear that something is about to happen (13).

- He does not have the sensation of living in a dream (18), possibly
because he feels things all too directly on both a mental and physical
level.
- He does not feel estranged from his family (19) but suffers from
homesickness (20), which represents his wish to feel secure and comfortable
with people who value him.
- For this reason, he weeps when he meets his friends (`Weeping, meeting
people, when': 2 ).
- NatrumMur., by contrast, avoids his loved ones and weeps when they look
at him.
- Consequently, the meaning of symptoms 22 and 23 (`Weeping, alternating
with laughter' and `Weeping, involuntary') is quite different in the context
of each remedy.

- Aurum lacks the specific symptoms of the intellect (24-26), as his mind
is affected by syphilis in a more general way.

- As one would expect from the symptoms missing from the Minimum
Characteristic Syndrome, he lacks compassion (28) and indifference to
pleasure (29); he is neither affectionate nor stuck in the past, and is not
bothered one way or the other by consolation.
- As his body becomes ravaged by the syphilitic miasm, his feelings of
mortification (27), grief (30), and disgust with life (31) increase to the
point where he wants to kill himself by throwing himself from the balcony.
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Let's say "you should know" and at least the prescription was found on
second choice rx

Cheerful, without reasonably obvious strings, just isn't aurum - it
might be coloured gold but the colour association is more likely grey,
black, deep purple with some sense of heaviness to it.

Unless someone can give MM to the contrary. Best wishes, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I would find it hard to confuse Aur and nat-m, as although they have
many rubrics in common, they present so differently ( to my mind)

I would agree with Joy that the cheerful of aur will have (must have!)
obvious strings..e.g an aur business man may seem cheerful but the
atmosphere won't feel it. Their way of avoiding the real issue is to
work work work. They are intense.

Also Think of those people who, when you speak to them in the street
'appear' cheerful (put it on ) but sometimes you just glimpse as they
go their demeanour plummets back to their own preoccupation internally
( that can be nat-m'ish too ). Thier cheerfulness is more likely to be
OTT. I think of one young man I saw who had taken various drugs , who
reminded me first of Dys -co, with his anxious smile, as his
cheerfullnes was so forced it seemed, he was intense, in your face, but
terribly over cheerful about it. His eyes weren't chereful though, they
were desperate. (quite Anac too) The *feeling* I had when he was in the
room though was that inside he was looking at me through prison bars
that he was gripping with white knuckles and was sweating with the
effort of it and a frantic desperate, emotional pain beyond his
endurance, expression on his face pressed against the bars. No mention
of depression or suicide, he was loquatious and also felt slightly
dangerous, but not threatening. he did really well on aur. Another
chap I saw was very pleasant, lots of decorum, very well educated,
cheerful but through gritted teeth as it were, you could tell from his
demeanour though, that he had reached the end. In fact he seemed to me
to have a slight overall tremor. No matter how much I pressed him he
never directly spoke of his own feelings, he was behaving perfectly but
you could feel the seething inner turmoil. It was only my feeling ( but
very useful in understanding the Px) that if this pain wasn't turned
inward as it was, but outward instead, he could almost kill; ( even
though he was a lovely, kind, gentle person) therefore knowing it was
turned inward you can see the suicidal potential without asking about
it. The way he referred to his inner state was to quote Churchill
referring to his 'Black dog' that followed him. I had the feeling that
for him to directly talk about ( therefore look directly at) his own
torment would have resulted in a complete breakdown. His 'desperate
holding on' was all that was between him and disaster. He did
brilliantly on aur.

That is the state that I see in 50% of the cases needing Aur, i.e. not
the classic presentation of Aur; invariably as far as I can remember,
in men. The females I see needing it are usually much more expressive
and clearly state that they feel suicidal.
Simon