It wouldn't be specific like that.
Maybe a useful metaphor would "problem solving". A person who engages in
many activites, overcomes many obstacles, perseveres thru many perplexing
situations etc., becomes someone who is good at solving problems, good at
getting thru difficult situations, not just the specific situations they've
already solved.
A person who works at at the gym a lot becomes stronger and better able to
do *many* athletic tasks, not merely better at working out on machines.
I assume that provings would work the same way--exercise for the body's
adaptive capability.
And *as* with the above examples, a "workout" that is appropriate, is
strengthening; a workout that is "too much" may be damaging and
counterproductive.
Shannon
on 10/29/04 7:28 AM, raji balasubramanian at raji_bs2004@yahoo.co.in wrote:
drug proving
-
raji balasubramanian
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: drug proving
thanks shanon.
i understand that the symptoms that r produced by a drug in a healthy human being can cure them in the sick but where does this boosting of vitality linked in between?
in drug proving the symptoms produced are of functional level so they fade out in few days. or as u said in some cases(rarely) there might be complications.
thanx
raji.
Robert&Shannon Nelson wrote:
It wouldn't be specific like that.
Maybe a useful metaphor would "problem solving". A person who engages in
many activites, overcomes many obstacles, perseveres thru many perplexing
situations etc., becomes someone who is good at solving problems, good at
getting thru difficult situations, not just the specific situations they've
already solved.
A person who works at at the gym a lot becomes stronger and better able to
do *many* athletic tasks, not merely better at working out on machines.
I assume that provings would work the same way--exercise for the body's
adaptive capability.
And *as* with the above examples, a "workout" that is appropriate, is
strengthening; a workout that is "too much" may be damaging and
counterproductive.
Shannon
on 10/29/04 7:28 AM, raji balasubramanian at raji_bs2004@yahoo.co.in wrote:
Clinical Guidance for Homeopaths and Students of Homeopathy!
http://www.shahrdarhost.net/Clinical%20Guidance.htm
ATTENTION PLEASE:
The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
****
ATTENTION PLEASE!!
If you do not wish to receive individual emails, send a message with the subject of 'Digest' to minutusgroup@yahoo.com to receive a single daily digest.
Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
i understand that the symptoms that r produced by a drug in a healthy human being can cure them in the sick but where does this boosting of vitality linked in between?
in drug proving the symptoms produced are of functional level so they fade out in few days. or as u said in some cases(rarely) there might be complications.
thanx
raji.
Robert&Shannon Nelson wrote:
It wouldn't be specific like that.
Maybe a useful metaphor would "problem solving". A person who engages in
many activites, overcomes many obstacles, perseveres thru many perplexing
situations etc., becomes someone who is good at solving problems, good at
getting thru difficult situations, not just the specific situations they've
already solved.
A person who works at at the gym a lot becomes stronger and better able to
do *many* athletic tasks, not merely better at working out on machines.
I assume that provings would work the same way--exercise for the body's
adaptive capability.
And *as* with the above examples, a "workout" that is appropriate, is
strengthening; a workout that is "too much" may be damaging and
counterproductive.
Shannon
on 10/29/04 7:28 AM, raji balasubramanian at raji_bs2004@yahoo.co.in wrote:
Clinical Guidance for Homeopaths and Students of Homeopathy!
http://www.shahrdarhost.net/Clinical%20Guidance.htm
ATTENTION PLEASE:
The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
****
ATTENTION PLEASE!!
If you do not wish to receive individual emails, send a message with the subject of 'Digest' to minutusgroup@yahoo.com to receive a single daily digest.
Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: drug proving
----------
From: Luise Kunkle
Organization: Disorganized
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:31:17 +0200 (CEST)
To: Robert&Shannon Nelson
Subject: Re: [Minutus] drug proving
Hi Shannon.
you might forward this to the list, please (afer one success at
posting, the nex posts again were swallowed) So I have given up.
But this is interesting for me.
Someone in the posts on that thread said that the red urine seemed the
most SRP sx. I agree.
Looking it up in Kent I only found one remedy for:
urine red during fever Nux vomica
I thereupon checked through Nux vom. (Hering's Guiding Symptoms) for
the other symptoms that were reported.
Here is what I found: (I left out the ones that Nux is well-known for,
e.g. abdominal, irritability etc - only included where it is
mentioned together with other distinctive sx.)
*************
In forehead :
tensive headache ; as if it were pressed in, at night
and in
morning, when leaning head against something or when lying on back ;
burning on awaking and after eating ; heat, with morning headache ;
headache, with large, difficult stools ; periodical headache, sore as
from
ulceration, with constipation ; pain, above eyes, with fainting spells
;
pain, extending through base of brain to occiput.
Pressive headache over left eye, and pain in bones as if he received a
bruise ; could not open eye.
Drawing pain, first in temples, then in forehead, then in occiput.
Semilateral headache : as if from pressing a nail into brain ; from
excessive use of coffee.
Violent jerking or dull stitches in left hemisphere of brain,
extending
from orbit towards parietal bone and occiput, soon after eating.
Stitches and pressing on one side of head, commencing early in morning
and
increasing in severity until patient becomes unconscious or half
delirious.
----------------------
FEVER. [40] [Nux. v.]
Coldness of whole body, with blue hands ; neither > by warmth of stove
nor
by covering.
Smouldering, lingering, obstinate, irritative fever ; frequent, small,
thumping pulse.
Gastric or bilious fevers in plethoric individuals or in those
suffering
from portal stasis, occurring in hot weather or in warm, wet days.
Intense occipital headache, vertigo, pains in eyes, as from deranged
stomach
---------------
COUGH. [27] [Nux. v.]
Cough : causes headache as if skull would burst ; racking, with pain
in
stomach and abdomen as if bruised ; violent, little or no
expectoration ;
dry, fatiguing, from tittillation in larynx ;
hoarse, dry and hollow ; convulsive, excited by tickling in throat ;
Sputa : yellow ; grey ; cold mucus ; sour or sweetish, bright red
blood.
________
Coryza :
acrid discharge from nose, which feels obstructed ; dry, ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========
From: Luise Kunkle
Organization: Disorganized
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:31:17 +0200 (CEST)
To: Robert&Shannon Nelson
Subject: Re: [Minutus] drug proving
Hi Shannon.
you might forward this to the list, please (afer one success at
posting, the nex posts again were swallowed) So I have given up.
But this is interesting for me.
Someone in the posts on that thread said that the red urine seemed the
most SRP sx. I agree.
Looking it up in Kent I only found one remedy for:
urine red during fever Nux vomica
I thereupon checked through Nux vom. (Hering's Guiding Symptoms) for
the other symptoms that were reported.
Here is what I found: (I left out the ones that Nux is well-known for,
e.g. abdominal, irritability etc - only included where it is
mentioned together with other distinctive sx.)
*************
In forehead :
tensive headache ; as if it were pressed in, at night
and in
morning, when leaning head against something or when lying on back ;
burning on awaking and after eating ; heat, with morning headache ;
headache, with large, difficult stools ; periodical headache, sore as
from
ulceration, with constipation ; pain, above eyes, with fainting spells
;
pain, extending through base of brain to occiput.
Pressive headache over left eye, and pain in bones as if he received a
bruise ; could not open eye.
Drawing pain, first in temples, then in forehead, then in occiput.
Semilateral headache : as if from pressing a nail into brain ; from
excessive use of coffee.
Violent jerking or dull stitches in left hemisphere of brain,
extending
from orbit towards parietal bone and occiput, soon after eating.
Stitches and pressing on one side of head, commencing early in morning
and
increasing in severity until patient becomes unconscious or half
delirious.
----------------------
FEVER. [40] [Nux. v.]
Coldness of whole body, with blue hands ; neither > by warmth of stove
nor
by covering.
Smouldering, lingering, obstinate, irritative fever ; frequent, small,
thumping pulse.
Gastric or bilious fevers in plethoric individuals or in those
suffering
from portal stasis, occurring in hot weather or in warm, wet days.
Intense occipital headache, vertigo, pains in eyes, as from deranged
stomach
---------------
COUGH. [27] [Nux. v.]
Cough : causes headache as if skull would burst ; racking, with pain
in
stomach and abdomen as if bruised ; violent, little or no
expectoration ;
dry, fatiguing, from tittillation in larynx ;
hoarse, dry and hollow ; convulsive, excited by tickling in throat ;
Sputa : yellow ; grey ; cold mucus ; sour or sweetish, bright red
blood.
________
Coryza :
acrid discharge from nose, which feels obstructed ; dry, ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: drug proving
Hi Raji,
The main place where we get boosting of vitality is from removal of the
disease via the remedy. Some people (and apparently Hahnemann in some
places) say this happens when the vital force "throws off" the artificial
disease, and also cures the "natural disease" in the process. Other people
(and apparently Hahnemann in other places) say it is accomplished thru the
action of the remedy *itself*, which somehow neutralizes the "natural
disease". (Personally I can't imagine how how an energetic remedy has any
independent action, other than thru causing reaction by the vital force, but
that's an academic point IMO!)
Was that what you meant?
Shannon
on 10/29/04 9:38 AM, raji balasubramanian at raji_bs2004@yahoo.co.in wrote:
The main place where we get boosting of vitality is from removal of the
disease via the remedy. Some people (and apparently Hahnemann in some
places) say this happens when the vital force "throws off" the artificial
disease, and also cures the "natural disease" in the process. Other people
(and apparently Hahnemann in other places) say it is accomplished thru the
action of the remedy *itself*, which somehow neutralizes the "natural
disease". (Personally I can't imagine how how an energetic remedy has any
independent action, other than thru causing reaction by the vital force, but
that's an academic point IMO!)
Was that what you meant?
Shannon
on 10/29/04 9:38 AM, raji balasubramanian at raji_bs2004@yahoo.co.in wrote:
-
raji balasubramanian
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: drug proving
hi shannon,
i think i dint make it clear enough.
u r talking about the remedy but i am talking about the drug.an indicated medicine is called a remedy right?
u r explaining me the modus operandi.this is in a sick individual but what about in a healthy person?
in the sick,
a similimum is given, due to which the artificial disease is produced and it being similar and stronger than the natural disease it expels the natural disease and the artificial disease fades away in few days.
in healthy human being,
a drug is given so that the pathogenesis of the drug can be obtained, artificial disease is created so symptoms produced, then recording after which it fades away and the person is free from the artificial disease.
now we say that, when a drug produces certain set of symptoms in healthy individual it can cure it in the sick.why does it have to give resistence against any other disease also?
thanx
raji.
Robert&Shannon Nelson wrote:
Hi Raji,
The main place where we get boosting of vitality is from removal of the
disease via the remedy. Some people (and apparently Hahnemann in some
places) say this happens when the vital force "throws off" the artificial
disease, and also cures the "natural disease" in the process. Other people
(and apparently Hahnemann in other places) say it is accomplished thru the
action of the remedy *itself*, which somehow neutralizes the "natural
disease". (Personally I can't imagine how how an energetic remedy has any
independent action, other than thru causing reaction by the vital force, but
that's an academic point IMO!)
Was that what you meant?
Shannon
on 10/29/04 9:38 AM, raji balasubramanian at raji_bs2004@yahoo.co.in wrote:
Clinical Guidance for Homeopaths and Students of Homeopathy!
http://www.shahrdarhost.net/Clinical%20Guidance.htm
ATTENTION PLEASE:
The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
****
ATTENTION PLEASE!!
If you do not wish to receive individual emails, send a message with the subject of 'Digest' to minutusgroup@yahoo.com to receive a single daily digest.
Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
i think i dint make it clear enough.
u r talking about the remedy but i am talking about the drug.an indicated medicine is called a remedy right?
u r explaining me the modus operandi.this is in a sick individual but what about in a healthy person?
in the sick,
a similimum is given, due to which the artificial disease is produced and it being similar and stronger than the natural disease it expels the natural disease and the artificial disease fades away in few days.
in healthy human being,
a drug is given so that the pathogenesis of the drug can be obtained, artificial disease is created so symptoms produced, then recording after which it fades away and the person is free from the artificial disease.
now we say that, when a drug produces certain set of symptoms in healthy individual it can cure it in the sick.why does it have to give resistence against any other disease also?
thanx
raji.
Robert&Shannon Nelson wrote:
Hi Raji,
The main place where we get boosting of vitality is from removal of the
disease via the remedy. Some people (and apparently Hahnemann in some
places) say this happens when the vital force "throws off" the artificial
disease, and also cures the "natural disease" in the process. Other people
(and apparently Hahnemann in other places) say it is accomplished thru the
action of the remedy *itself*, which somehow neutralizes the "natural
disease". (Personally I can't imagine how how an energetic remedy has any
independent action, other than thru causing reaction by the vital force, but
that's an academic point IMO!)
Was that what you meant?
Shannon
on 10/29/04 9:38 AM, raji balasubramanian at raji_bs2004@yahoo.co.in wrote:
Clinical Guidance for Homeopaths and Students of Homeopathy!
http://www.shahrdarhost.net/Clinical%20Guidance.htm
ATTENTION PLEASE:
The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
****
ATTENTION PLEASE!!
If you do not wish to receive individual emails, send a message with the subject of 'Digest' to minutusgroup@yahoo.com to receive a single daily digest.
Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: drug proving
hi Raji,
Sorry, I think I am still not understanding...
on 10/29/04 8:23 PM, raji balasubramanian at raji_bs2004@yahoo.co.in wrote:
??? An allopathic drug, or ??? What drugs are you talking about, that could
raise vitality?
??? There are "indicated medicines" in many fields, and for that matter the
term "remedy" is also used in different fields. But (and I assume this is
what you're getting after) in homeopathy we commonly refer to our (usually
potentized) medicines as "remedies".
A remedy is a remedy, whether it is "indicated" or not.
Maybe you are thinking of the term "simillimum"? The term "simillimum"
means the remedy that is indicated *for the ailment we are treating, in this
particular case*.
The terms "drug" and "medicine" are sometimes used interchangeably with the
term "remedy" -- so we have to judge by context whether a homeopathic remedy
is meant, or something else! Provings maybe be (and have been) done with
*either* potentized remedies *or* crude substance. However, usually a
proving done with crude substance (which often is simply an accidental
poisoning!) does not tend to give the same rich picture, including subtle
mental/emotional state etc., as does proving done with potencies. So today,
most provings (maybe all?) are done with potencies rather than with crude
substance. (And maybe "crude substance" is what you mean here by "drug"???)
But if I substitute "remedy" for "drug" in your above paragraph, then yes,
your description is fine!
I don't know what you mean...
Are you wondering why does the process of taking part in provings supposedly
make a (healthy) person stronger? That I don't know, I only have been told
that it does. My guess would be, as I said in my last post, that it would
be something along the lines of "exercise" for the body's homeostatic
mechanisms (aka "vital force"?), but that doesn't tell us much either, does
it!
Cheers,
Shannon
Sorry, I think I am still not understanding...
on 10/29/04 8:23 PM, raji balasubramanian at raji_bs2004@yahoo.co.in wrote:
??? An allopathic drug, or ??? What drugs are you talking about, that could
raise vitality?
??? There are "indicated medicines" in many fields, and for that matter the
term "remedy" is also used in different fields. But (and I assume this is
what you're getting after) in homeopathy we commonly refer to our (usually
potentized) medicines as "remedies".
A remedy is a remedy, whether it is "indicated" or not.
Maybe you are thinking of the term "simillimum"? The term "simillimum"
means the remedy that is indicated *for the ailment we are treating, in this
particular case*.
The terms "drug" and "medicine" are sometimes used interchangeably with the
term "remedy" -- so we have to judge by context whether a homeopathic remedy
is meant, or something else! Provings maybe be (and have been) done with
*either* potentized remedies *or* crude substance. However, usually a
proving done with crude substance (which often is simply an accidental
poisoning!) does not tend to give the same rich picture, including subtle
mental/emotional state etc., as does proving done with potencies. So today,
most provings (maybe all?) are done with potencies rather than with crude
substance. (And maybe "crude substance" is what you mean here by "drug"???)
But if I substitute "remedy" for "drug" in your above paragraph, then yes,
your description is fine!
I don't know what you mean...
Are you wondering why does the process of taking part in provings supposedly
make a (healthy) person stronger? That I don't know, I only have been told
that it does. My guess would be, as I said in my last post, that it would
be something along the lines of "exercise" for the body's homeostatic
mechanisms (aka "vital force"?), but that doesn't tell us much either, does
it!
Cheers,
Shannon
-
raji balasubramanian
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: drug proving
hey shannon thank u so much, u have done so much to clear my doubts.
regards,
raji.
Robert&Shannon Nelson wrote:
hi Raji,
Sorry, I think I am still not understanding...
on 10/29/04 8:23 PM, raji balasubramanian at raji_bs2004@yahoo.co.in wrote:
??? An allopathic drug, or ??? What drugs are you talking about, that could
raise vitality?
??? There are "indicated medicines" in many fields, and for that matter the
term "remedy" is also used in different fields. But (and I assume this is
what you're getting after) in homeopathy we commonly refer to our (usually
potentized) medicines as "remedies".
A remedy is a remedy, whether it is "indicated" or not.
Maybe you are thinking of the term "simillimum"? The term "simillimum"
means the remedy that is indicated *for the ailment we are treating, in this
particular case*.
The terms "drug" and "medicine" are sometimes used interchangeably with the
term "remedy" -- so we have to judge by context whether a homeopathic remedy
is meant, or something else! Provings maybe be (and have been) done with
*either* potentized remedies *or* crude substance. However, usually a
proving done with crude substance (which often is simply an accidental
poisoning!) does not tend to give the same rich picture, including subtle
mental/emotional state etc., as does proving done with potencies. So today,
most provings (maybe all?) are done with potencies rather than with crude
substance. (And maybe "crude substance" is what you mean here by "drug"???)
But if I substitute "remedy" for "drug" in your above paragraph, then yes,
your description is fine!
I don't know what you mean...
Are you wondering why does the process of taking part in provings supposedly
make a (healthy) person stronger? That I don't know, I only have been told
that it does. My guess would be, as I said in my last post, that it would
be something along the lines of "exercise" for the body's homeostatic
mechanisms (aka "vital force"?), but that doesn't tell us much either, does
it!
Cheers,
Shannon
Clinical Guidance for Homeopaths and Students of Homeopathy!
http://www.shahrdarhost.net/Clinical%20Guidance.htm
ATTENTION PLEASE:
The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
****
ATTENTION PLEASE!!
If you do not wish to receive individual emails, send a message with the subject of 'Digest' to minutusgroup@yahoo.com to receive a single daily digest.
Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
regards,
raji.
Robert&Shannon Nelson wrote:
hi Raji,
Sorry, I think I am still not understanding...
on 10/29/04 8:23 PM, raji balasubramanian at raji_bs2004@yahoo.co.in wrote:
??? An allopathic drug, or ??? What drugs are you talking about, that could
raise vitality?
??? There are "indicated medicines" in many fields, and for that matter the
term "remedy" is also used in different fields. But (and I assume this is
what you're getting after) in homeopathy we commonly refer to our (usually
potentized) medicines as "remedies".
A remedy is a remedy, whether it is "indicated" or not.
Maybe you are thinking of the term "simillimum"? The term "simillimum"
means the remedy that is indicated *for the ailment we are treating, in this
particular case*.
The terms "drug" and "medicine" are sometimes used interchangeably with the
term "remedy" -- so we have to judge by context whether a homeopathic remedy
is meant, or something else! Provings maybe be (and have been) done with
*either* potentized remedies *or* crude substance. However, usually a
proving done with crude substance (which often is simply an accidental
poisoning!) does not tend to give the same rich picture, including subtle
mental/emotional state etc., as does proving done with potencies. So today,
most provings (maybe all?) are done with potencies rather than with crude
substance. (And maybe "crude substance" is what you mean here by "drug"???)
But if I substitute "remedy" for "drug" in your above paragraph, then yes,
your description is fine!
I don't know what you mean...
Are you wondering why does the process of taking part in provings supposedly
make a (healthy) person stronger? That I don't know, I only have been told
that it does. My guess would be, as I said in my last post, that it would
be something along the lines of "exercise" for the body's homeostatic
mechanisms (aka "vital force"?), but that doesn't tell us much either, does
it!
Cheers,
Shannon
Clinical Guidance for Homeopaths and Students of Homeopathy!
http://www.shahrdarhost.net/Clinical%20Guidance.htm
ATTENTION PLEASE:
The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
****
ATTENTION PLEASE!!
If you do not wish to receive individual emails, send a message with the subject of 'Digest' to minutusgroup@yahoo.com to receive a single daily digest.
Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]