Minutus

Michelle, aside from the simple rudeness of dragging this out into the
light, you have exposed it to commentary. The mark of a really great
healer in any area must include firstly, an endless curiosity about
acquiring more knowledge and doing more with it. Perhaps you could
enlighten yourself a bit further before you shut the door, as "doing
fine" is not enough.

Secondly, every healer will do whatever can be done in any circumstance
to make things better, not worse. This is clearly the case with the
rescue dogs whom Magda has helped. There is a problem, dogs are
suffering, and there is no chance of helping if principle stands in the
way. You can disagree all you want, but Magda has made a considered
decision to do what she CAN do under the circumstances, and this, to
me, is a higher principle. You have something to learn here.

ginny and Tomo, in great humility in the face of this body of knowledge
All stunts performed without a net!

I have used arsenicum, lycopodium and lachesis successfully to treat the
symptoms/case. I do not think the asymptompatic treatment of a clinical lab
test (presence of microfilaria) is sufficient for a case taking, and thus no
treatment is called for. That being said, why not use lo potency arsenicum
if the goal, not a homeopathic one, is to poison the microfilaria? (since
ars is known to be homeopathic to the buggers - assuming that if something
works it is working according to the LOS - i.e. HWs can be assumed to have
an arsenicum vibe)

ATB

John
HW, like Lymes disease is a chronic

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, ginny wilken wrote:

Begging your pardon for dragging rudeness into light, but Magda had
no call to threaten me privately, as she's done to me numerous times
in the past as well as to many other people. It's something that
should be brought into the light for people to see. The mark of a
good healer, especially when it comes to homeopathy, is to look at
things without judgment.

If you will re-read my first message on the topic I stated that I
tried Paratox, because I knew Magda recommended it. I wish I had
researched the topic a little bit more thoroughly before blindly
following Magda's recommendation as I would have chosen to stick to
constitutional treatment.
I'm sorry, I should have used a better wording than "fine," they are
doing excellent, far better than most cats I know of. It's pretty
darned good to be living with a dozen cats and kittens ranging from
seven weeks to 14 years old, all purebred except one, and not have
one instance of chronic disease or anything else going on other than
runny eyes in a couple of kittens. It's a far cry better than it was
five years ago. It's a wonderful thing that if I have an acute
illness in a cat or kitten, I can successfully treat it without using
antibiotics or other conventional medicine. They are all physically
vibrant and mentally healthy. They make the best selling tools to
convince someone to switch to an alternative lifestyle for their
cats – all they need to do is come and see mine and they see the
difference.

I learn something every day about improving their health and that of
others. The day I stop learning is the day I die.

circumstance

And I commended her on that. I think it's great that she's
attempting to get rescue people to look at things in an alternative
manner – as impossible as that may be. My issue with the discussion
was Magda gave a blanket approval to Paratox. I stated my reasons
for disapproval and the alternative of using constitutional
treatment, which I think is superior. When challenged on the issue
Magda stated that she does not follow the instructions given with the
treatment. That makes a big difference.

the
to

I have nothing to learn from Magda, except maybe how not to treat
people.

This is a homeopathy list, not a shelter or rescue list. The Paratox
treatment uses repetitive doses of a combination homeopathic remedy
in conjunction with a nosode. That is not homeopathy, it is using
homeopathy in an allopathic manner, something Magda is constantly
preaching against.

Michelle T. Bernard
BLAKKATZ Naturally Raised American Shorthairs
http://www.blakkatz.com
Author of Raising Cats Naturally
http://www.raisingcatsnaturally.com

Well Michelle, as usual, you have shown your colors. I knew from the start
the purpose of your post. Just like you!

Magda Aguila
Aquiline
Animal Nutrition and
Homeopathic Consultations
Ask me about Juice Plus
http://www.juiceplus.com/+ma21937

Hi Rosemary,

"publish it"??? I doubt it! But will be glad to share it!

Magda Aguila
Aquiline
Animal Nutrition and
Homeopathic Consultations
Ask me about Juice Plus
http://www.juiceplus.com/+ma21937

Hi Michelle,

I don't want to fan the flames between the two of you (and am sorry for the
bad blood), but personally, I appreciate hearing concrete experiences with
these different approaches. As both you and she have noted, it is not
classical, I still think it is valuable for some of us to be aware of --
even tho we may never have the need to use this type of approach. And, tho
presumably less deep and efficient than classical approach, surely it is
also less stressful to the animals than the conventional approach.

I would very much like to hear remarks from both of you, about your reasons
for not being happy with it (I understand that the results were not as good
as what you see with individualized treatment; are there other reasons too?)
and also a description of what sorts of results Magda generally expects from
it (perhaps compared with what she may have seen from conventional
treatment?). I realize this is a loaded issue between the two of you, but
hope we can still have the conversation?

Best wishes,
Shannon
on 7/30/04 1:33 PM, mbernard2424 at mbernard@blakkatz.com wrote:

Hi Magda,

I'm not familiar with the protocol, but it sounds to me like you've made a
well-considered and reasonable compromise. Can you describe more about just
what this is, what posology the originator describes and how you moderate
that? E.g., I assume (guess) you repeat on more of an "as-needed" basis,
and/or according to the condition of the animal, rather than per routine?
Could describe what sort of progress you typically see in the animal --
e.g., will you see improvement after each dose, or after a week, or ??

Just curious, as this is a type of approach I have no experience with
whatever.

Thanks!
Shannon
on 7/30/04 10:10 AM, Rosemary C Hyde PhD at rosemarychyde@mindspring.com
wrote:

HI Shannon,

The schedule that Dr. Werner uses is without a doubt excessive. He
recommends the use of Paratox twice a day for 48 hours, and the HW nosode is
used daily, then weekly, then monthly over a 3 month period of time. He
also uses Diatomaceous earth which is very good for intestinal parasites,
but I fail to see its use with HW.

When I first got the Paratox from him a few years ago, there was no listing
of the remedies in the product. I do not know if new bottles have the
"ingredients" but he does say clearly that it is a combination remedy.

I use 5 drops of Paratox in a medicinal solution. I give one dose one day a
week for two weeks. I give ONE dose of the HW nosode (32C) one pellet in 4
oz of water, one teaspoon from there. On the cases I have treated, blood
work is done regularly, like once every two weeks as this is a "new and
unproven" method, so the vets keep close eyes on things.

My experience has been that by the end of the first month, there is no
microfilaria present. Once the test is negative, I do not repeat the
treatment. A couple of cases have required the repetition of my posology a
second time, but that is not the norm.

Some of the cases I have been able to follow up and others I have not, but I
am sure I would have heard if there were any problems. The rescue I work
with most came to me thru a client involved with it. She went thru hell and
back to get them to approve the use of anything "different". Because she is
on the board of the rescue organization, she has exerted some influence on
who adopts these dogs, once their tests show no microfilaria, so I have been
able to treat some of the dogs' chronic disease once they have gone to their
forever homes. All the dogs in question, BTW have been retired Greyhounds,
who, of course, lead very stressful lives and whose life forces are very
much compromised.

Some of these dogs have symptoms of HW such as enlarged hearts, respiratory
problems and coughs. Others' symptoms are not as extreme. Of course, all
have symptoms of chronic disease. My client usually dispenses the remedies
as I trust her and the organization feels comfortable with this. I know she
does not uses the remedies without consulting me first.

There is another rescue operation in Florida that reports 75% cures even
with Dr. Werner's protocol. I used to have their name, but don't anymore as
it has been at least 7 years since I did the research on the protocol and
the results Dr. Werner was claiming.

If you go to his website, you will see he is simply a semi-holistic vet
using remedies in an allopathic manner. We have had our head "butting"
often as he freely sells all kinds of nosodes and uses them "in lieu" of
vaccines, so I try my hardest at educating people regarding excessive dosing
and repetition of the remedies and always recommend split dosing.

I hope this answers your questions...

Magda Aguila
Aquiline
Animal Nutrition and
Homeopathic Consultations
Ask me about Juice Plus
http://www.juiceplus.com/+ma21937

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Magda Aguila" wrote:
Here are the ingredients:

Allium Cepa, Allium Sativum, Croton Tigliem, Interleukin (IL/2),
Lycopersicum, Tanacetum Vulgare.

Michelle

Thanks to all for your suggestions about treating (or not treating)
heartworm. Ulysses is taking them under advisement and will tell me, his
humble servant, what his desires are. But first, a romp in the creek....

Peace,
Cinnabar