Medorrhinum [was: Why Nosodes Banned Germany]

[muthu kumar]

Thanks for reiterating this point I raised for which Eleana beat my
head with Dr.Bach's flower remedies and bowel nosodes

Most of the remedies are known by certain characteristic mental
symptoms. But these are only part of the picture. I would feel safer
prescribing on sensations than on mental symptoms - I am not saying
that mental symptoms cannot be good guides but that they are so open
to interpretation / demand so much from the prescriber and sometimes
give us a false sense of " I know this patient's type" kind of
feeling esp. if everyone with hands in trousers end up getting
Medorrhinum. I have had prescribing on Remedy pictures equally fail
or succeed. Ultimately it is some noteworthy symtom evaluated IN
CONTEXT that should count. I remember a case of 3 - 4 years hearing
difficulty after injury to head improve with chin.sulph ( I did not
know of any mental symptom of chin.sulph and I did not even see the
patient) and a case of hydronephrosis with Lachesis without seeing
the patient. I am not saying that remedy pictures are not important
but just that they are only one part of something that Homeopathy
is.Of course every little thing helps.
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Bob&Shannon
wrote:
of a
sociable, in
part of
withdrawal; to
*around*
(4) ***
company,
phos, and
of phos
affecting the
like
present,
out) the
*wonderful* as
treacherous trap
schreibt
need not) be
vulnerable;
with 58
both extreme
would have a
yawn...)
by
time. The Na
and
important
beautiful,
features,
sprinkles in the face
mandatory.
with pure Ph.
Homoeopathy and
regarding the
document read or
and/or email
use remains
individual
special, punitive
with the

[VBLUES]

In einer eMail vom 06.07.04 01:48:49 (MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerzeit schreibt
shannonnelson@tds.net:

>
6.7.4.
Well, phosphoricum Acidum and Ph are kinda different, the first being a tired
Ph with the signs mentioned by you above. Forgetfullness is actually the
first sign of phosphoricum Acidum, tired in mind, usually after long lasting rows
in the familly, because Ph always has family, friends, children around him,
otherwise he does not feel comfortable. So a problem on THIS level makes him
tired and he usually looses the fight to his wife, which mostly is some Ca-salt,
he always looses if she is Ca-ca, because they are much more resistent, much
harder than Ph who gets weared out, burned out. Ph is weak by nature, his
strong side is the "burning" moment like a match, than he must sleep and sleep
usually refreshes him very quickly, very good. Even a nap would be like a whole
night sleep. This is typical Ph.
Ph is never alone, he can not be alone. From the very beginning, in
childhood, these children have many friends, are very kind and open and can not sleep
alone in a dark room, always needing somebody' s presence in the room or at
least some light inside or on the floor, with open door, burning.
Ph loves society in another way too : he likes very much being in the centre
of a party or a gathering and being made compliments so that everybody looks
at him and admires him - he feels great in this situation although actually shy
by nature. There is a lot to be said here. Kind regards, Dr.medic.Viorel V.
Bucur (www.dr-bucur.com).

[Shannon Nelson]

on 7/6/04 5:15 AM, VBLUES@aol.com at VBLUES@aol.com wrote:
Ph-ac is different from the outgoing phase of phos; it is very similar to
phos's depleted presentation.
I can only say that according to our past homeopathic masters and also
present-day literature and experience including my own, you are mistaken in
insisting that phos (or indeed any remedy) is "always" this or that; if you
acknowledge only one presentation of a remedy, you will miss a great number
of places where it is needed.

If as you say, phos "is never alone, he can not be alone", I am curious how
you explain its presence in those contradicting rubrics? For interest, in
the rubric "Aversion to company", Phos was noted by Hahnemann himself; in
the remedy "Aversion to company, better when alone", it is supplied by
Pierre Schmidt, who I believe is also a reliable source.

Note this quote from Roger Morrison:
" As one of our most important polycrest remedies, Phosphorous must be
clearly understood in a variety of stages of pathology. ... In later
stages the patient is so sensitive to others and to outside stimulation that
the well-known desire for company is lost. The patient prefers to be alone
and is intolerant of strangers or of hearing of other's problems. As more
and more of the inner vitality is lost, so also is lost the "bubbly" and
sparkling nature. Eventually the patient becomes slow and indifferent and
apathetic, much like Phosphoric acid or Sepia."
Similarly with Med (and we could do the same for most remedies, certainly
for any of the polychrests), Morrison again:

"Although many cases will not have any hint of the typical mental symptoms
(NOTE!!!) of Medorrhinum, it is often [again, he says *often*, i.e. "not
necessarily"] the personality of the patient which leads to the prescription
of this remedy. ..."
I am concerned that your expressions of absolutes (Med/Phos/etc. "is always"
this, and "never" that) are misleading and potentially troublesome.

Your pictures are vivid and useful, but *have* to be understood "in
context", as only one possible picture of the remedy.

Best wishes,
Shannon

[Shannon Nelson]

It (the simplicity of homeopathy) is a matter I still crave to understand
better. ) I know that it *is* simple when one understands the remedies
(and cases) really well, and/or understands them from the standpoint of
"what makes it run", a level deeper than single symptoms, single
presentation, etc. Understanding them, as you said, "in context". Sigh, I
long for that. (dreamy smile...)

In the cases you mention, I would love to hear how you chose the remedies
without seeing patient? I assume this had to do with close match between
certain "aspects" of patient and remedy, which did not happen to include (or
need) the mental picture?
Shannon
on 7/5/04 8:13 PM, hahnemannian2002 at hahnemannian2002@yahoo.com wrote:

[VBLUES]

In einer eMail vom 06.07.04 04:01:51 (MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerzeit schreibt
hahnemannian2002@yahoo.com:

>
6.7.4.
Stramonium, it was compared to Medorrhinum but THIS feature is Stramonium and
quite often Belladonna and Hioscyamus, all three being closely related.
Kind regards, Dr.medic. Viorel V. Bucur (www.dr-bucur.com).

[VBLUES]

In einer eMail vom 06.07.04 13:29:36 (MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerzeit schreibt
shannonnelson@tds.net:

<< on 7/6/04 5:15 AM, VBLUES@aol.com at VBLUES@aol.com wrote:
tired
Ph-ac is different from the outgoing phase of phos; it is very similar to
phos's depleted presentation.
centre
looks
I can only say that according to our past homeopathic masters and also
present-day literature and experience including my own, you are mistaken in
insisting that phos (or indeed any remedy) is "always" this or that; if you
acknowledge only one presentation of a remedy, you will miss a great number
of places where it is needed.
If as you say, phos "is never alone, he can not be alone", I am curious how
you explain its presence in those contradicting rubrics? For interest, in
the rubric "Aversion to company", Phos was noted by Hahnemann himself; in
the remedy "Aversion to company, better when alone", it is supplied by
Pierre Schmidt, who I believe is also a reliable source.
Note this quote from Roger Morrison:
" As one of our most important polycrest remedies, Phosphorous must be
clearly understood in a variety of stages of pathology. ... In later
stages the patient is so sensitive to others and to outside stimulation that
the well-known desire for company is lost. The patient prefers to be alone
and is intolerant of strangers or of hearing of other's problems. As more
and more of the inner vitality is lost, so also is lost the "bubbly" and
sparkling nature. Eventually the patient becomes slow and indifferent and
apathetic, much like Phosphoric acid or Sepia."
Similarly with Med (and we could do the same for most remedies, certainly
for any of the polychrests), Morrison again:
"Although many cases will not have any hint of the typical mental symptoms
(NOTE!!!) of Medorrhinum, it is often [again, he says *often*, i.e. "not
necessarily"] the personality of the patient which leads to the prescription
of this remedy. ..."
I am concerned that your expressions of absolutes (Med/Phos/etc. "is always"
this, and "never" that) are misleading and potentially troublesome.
Your pictures are vivid and useful, but *have* to be understood "in
context", as only one possible picture of the remedy.
Best wishes,
Shannon
6.7.4.
I know Pierre Schmidt very well. Also Doris Nagel.
Well, there are certain borders. Ph is always in company. While changing into
Sepia (this was very good, many Sepias appear as Ph on the first sight or as
Na-mur, of course) or Phosphoricum Acidum, he is no longer Ph as such, but
something else, close to Ph, related to it but not Ph any more. This is the
reason why clear things have to be said. Each polychrest has clear borders, offers
a clear picture. There are interfaces like Ph-Sepia or Na-mur Sepia or you
name it but these remedies are no Ph as such any more.
So in Medorrhinum. Each remedy has a clear cut face actually, including the
personality of the patient which is part of this remedy and gives precious help
in finding the remedy. Each remedy actually is leaded by ONE idea, in Ph it
is openness-light-friendship-warmth, so Medorrhinum is excess, etc.
Lonely Ph is no Ph any more but already evolved into something else.
Ph is by definition friendship, warmth, association, naive, loves sex but is
weak at it often breaking down in the middle, speaks a lot very open even if
not asked, etc., etc. Believe me, it is so!
I agree that all these books are good, I know them too, however the IDEA of
Ph is this one. This is the reason why Ph is not alone. Loneliness is something
of Na-salts, usually Na-mur, which on the other side is close to Ph too, but
not very close. Kind regards, Dr.medic. Viorel V. Bucur

[Shannon Nelson]

I understand what you are saying, and I believe you are quite mistaken.
E.g. Dr. Morrison does *not* say "phos may change into ph-ac or sepia"; he
says that phos may *look* like ph-ac or sepia -- in other words, you may be
*fooled* into thinking the pt needs one of these, but what s/he needs is
actually phos.

Hahnemann's and Schmidt's entries of phos into the rubrics re "averse
company"/"better alone" are *not* about remedies that a formerly phos
patient may have "turned into"; they describe states that *may call for
phos*, even tho they may *look* like e.g. ph-ac or sepia (or etc.).

So, in continuing to insist that "Ph is always in company", "is by
definition friendship, warmth, association..." and etc., you are arguing not
only with me but with Hahnemann, and with the others I have quoted, and with
many others whose record you may find if you choose to be openminded enough
to look.

I have nothing more to add on the subject. If your comfortingly tidy view of
prescribing serves you adequately, then there is no need to trouble yourself
by hearing or reading any further, so I will leave you to it.

Best wishes,
Shannon

on 7/6/04 9:12 AM, VBLUES@aol.com at VBLUES@aol.com wrote:

[Shannon Nelson]

Could also be Med (per rubric "handles genitals") and also several other
remedies. Once again, single symptom needs to be evaluated in context of
the whole case and it is useful to consult a repertory to bring more
possibilities to mind.
on 7/6/04 8:54 AM, VBLUES@aol.com at VBLUES@aol.com wrote:

[muthu kumar]

I would never say that Homeopathy is simple or I have understood it
the way Dr.Bucur probably has. I have always depended upon the
patient to give me a clue. I do not subscribe to the principle of
there being "one REMEDY to rule them all"( like the "Lord of the
Rings") for all cases. May be in some cases there is. But not always
and not for all scenarios.
In the same vein I always think like Shrek does "Ogres are like
onions. They have layers". Patients current symptom picture may give
rise to another picture and we should be able to follow it up then. I
would never think that Sil should definitely develop after Puls.
I used to practise in India before I moved to US. In India lots of
times the patient may not come to you. Somebody from the family might
be the only one you get to see. Esp. if you practise with poor
patients where all family members do not have the money to make the
to and fro journey. You just work with what you get. And most of the
time it is sufficient. May be it is a key note; it is a causation; it
is a single PQRS.
In a weekly journal they used to have a "Prayer" column where they
publish desperate cases and ask the readers to pray for them. I used
to send free medicines for them wherever I felt Homeopathy could do
anything. This is a child about 4 years old and parents said that the
child fell from cot and hit its head and this is the causation that
they ascribed to the condition (very poor family; parents illiterate
and could write only a few sentences with limited vocabulary).They
have gone the rounds to various hospitals and the doctors could not
help them. The doctors opined that even if the child could hear a
little they could help.
Knerr gives - for hearing deafness from concussion of brain - Arn;
from concussion of brain esp. in the auditory region - Chin.sulph.
Even though Arnica is also indicated I thought what with China's
predominant action in hearing and there being no other effects of the
injury per se ( so that we can assume the injury had been specific to
hearing area)I could give Chin.sulph. And it worked. Within 3 weeks
the child started responding to parents calling him, was trying to
mouth words and calling Mommy. You cannot imagine the joy of the
parent in his letter to me. This was 20 years back. I lost touch with
them after that and they wanted to pursue the treatment with ENT
specialists to see if they could help speed the process.

Lachesis is a 75 year old, very healthy farmer who had to come to the
city for a surgery for bilateral inguinal hernia. Routine pre-
operative check up showed one non-functioning kidney (left), elevated
BP and Urea. Right kidney had stones and close to going for hydro
nephrosis. Patient had pyelography done. He refused to come to any
doctor after that. The son came to get medicines from me. The son
said that his father had been very healthy, had worked in his farm
till the last day before he came to the city. The only problem he had
( apart from hernia of course) was the day after the dye was
injected for the tests. He had tremors of the tongue esp. in the
morning after waking for 2 days. I prescribed based mainly on that.
Lachesis 30 1 dose. The next day morning I got a phone from the son
that his father has got the " same tongue problem now ". We waited.
In 3 days time his BP came down and urea levels were normal. I do not
believe this myself. Of course the patient never wanted another test
done after that and immediately went back to his village.

For me - the one thing my patients have taught me is to have an open
mind; always- period. I have never assumed that I know the medicine
without referring to repertories and studying the case whatever the
symptom / sign presented. There may be people capable of doing this.
I am not one of them.
And I mostly do not subscribe to any of the new "theories" that seem
to explain CAUSE of disease which theorizing Hahnemann has expressly
spoken against. I do not care if the primary delusion is what is
causing all the problems. There is no end to theorizing. If olden day
homeopaths could do wonders with so many acute diseases and life
threatening situations without theories like "Delusions" I do not
know why we cannot. And I can never say that I gave the correct
medicine till I see the results. And sincerely I do not think any one
really can. That is the beauty of homeopathy. Homeopathy being a
systemic medicine can only perturb a system ie; patient's state. The
simillimum is capable of the best perturbance but even other similar
medicines perturb to varying degrees which we have seen in practice –
the partial simillimum. But what this perturbance can lead to -
depends on the patient's complete SYSTEM (which sometimes includes
even the society where the patient lives), we DO NOT AND CANNOT
CONTROL all of that. We are only "perturbers". We strive to shake the
boat the best. This is my take on the whole system. This is the
reason other systems also work whether it is Ayurveda or Naturopathy
or Herbalism.

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Bob&Shannon
wrote:
understand
remedies
standpoint of
Sigh, I
remedies
between
include (or
my
safer
saying
open
sometimes
fail
hearing
not
the
seeing
important
*
of
used
aspects
it,
can
Zeit
alone
the
home

[VBLUES]

In einer eMail vom 06.07.04 16:59:59 (MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerzeit schreibt
shannonnelson@tds.net:

<< I understand what you are saying, and I believe you are quite mistaken.
E.g. Dr. Morrison does *not* say "phos may change into ph-ac or sepia"; he
says that phos may *look* like ph-ac or sepia -- in other words, you may be
*fooled* into thinking the pt needs one of these, but what s/he needs is
actually phos.
Hahnemann's and Schmidt's entries of phos into the rubrics re "averse
company"/"better alone" are *not* about remedies that a formerly phos
patient may have "turned into"; they describe states that *may call for
phos*, even tho they may *look* like e.g. ph-ac or sepia (or etc.).
So, in continuing to insist that "Ph is always in company", "is by
definition friendship, warmth, association..." and etc., you are arguing not
only with me but with Hahnemann, and with the others I have quoted, and with
many others whose record you may find if you choose to be openminded enough
to look.
I have nothing more to add on the subject. If your comfortingly tidy view of
prescribing serves you adequately, then there is no need to trouble yourself
by hearing or reading any further, so I will leave you to it.
Best wishes,
Shannon
7.7.4.
We already had a dispute on the theme "one man=one remedy" and that there is
no such thing. It is an idea which was thought to be right but was proven
wrong. However, unfortunately, it is still propagated by some homeopaths.
Constitutions evolve from early childhood to the old patient, way through. There are
many firmly established developments : Ca-ca-Lycopodium or Ph-Ca-ph or
Pulsatilla-Sepia, Ph-Carcinosynum, Ph-Graphites, Ph-Aurum, to name just a few.
Phosphoricum Acidum develops only from Ph as such in the conditions already mentioned.
Besides, there are always several "layers", so, Sepia (which alone includes 5
undergroups - how complex!) may appear as Sepia but also as Ph or Na-mur or
Pulsatilla in the first place, needing Sepia as such only after the second
prescription. THIS is what I meant. We discussed intensively on this 2-3 month ago
in this forum.
You can not be fooled by a case like this : if he needs Phosphor, he gets it
in the first place and after the second interview he may need Sepia or not,
which probably is the constitutional remedy in this case and so on. As I already
mentioned several times before, the most mistakes are made with the SECOND
prescription and not with the first one, exactly due to this interpretation of
the changes happened in between, this "wilderness of mirrors".
If the patient gets Ph but he is Sepia - often combination - what will we
find when he comes to the second interview? and so on ...
Sepia is also a remedy with loneliness but so many other specific symptoms
that a confusion is actually not possible.
I am not arguing with anybody but stick to my opinion confirmed thousands of
times in day-to-day practice : Ph is sociable and NEEDS friends, probably the
most sociable of them all, otherwise he does not feel good and suffers. In his
clique he is always a follower, not the leader, but he can not exist without
this clique. He will seek the clicque. Na-mur and Sepia do have loneliness
(like heavy metals, for ex.) and they do not want to be comforted when feeling
bad (they hate it actually), while Ph ALWAYS needs comfort from another person
when feeling bad or when hurt, he is just craving for it and then ALWAYS feels
better. This is a main phosphoric feature as the one with the sleep I
mentioned yesterday. Ph children do weep on the spot when being admonested by their
parents and then just giving them a hug or short lovely comfort or petting, they
start smiling on the spot and forgot everything in a matter of seconds. There
are several central features (among the more than 4000 symptoms) making Ph
distinction very clear.
Ph is the kind of person almost always laughing, bright, friendly face, when
entering the room bringing in a fresh and friendly atmosphere. I can not
mention them all here.
There is no book to be called a bible except the Organon 6-th edition which
is something else. Everything else is subject to dispute and many, many things
proved to be wrong along the time. So the knowledge is always a mixture of as
many books and as many opinions as possible plus the own experience. ALL this,
suma sumarum, suggests to me what I have written to you. Kind regards,
Dr.medic. Viorel V. Bucur (www.dr-bucur.com).