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Re: Why Nosodes Banned Germany

Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 4:46 am
by Shannon Nelson
My point was simply this:
We prescribe based on symptom picture correspondence -- a symptom complex
which can be *caused* by Substance Q, can therefore be cured by (especially
a potentized version of) Substance Q.

Sterilized Medhorrinum will not produce disease, whereas the unsterilized
substance will; that is a big different in "symptom picture"!

Therefore, I would expect that a remedy produced from one, would *NOT* treat
(nor produce in provintg) the same symptom picture as would the other. To
me, this seems "Principles of Homeopathy 101"...

Perhaps the sterilized substance will have its curative picture brought out
by potentization, as with e.g. Lycopodium and other inert substances. And
perhaps the symptom picture of the sterilized version will prove to be
"similar enough" to that of the unsterilized substance -- or, perhaps not,
to either or both! I'm baffled that such a change could be made without an
appropriate change in the name of the remedy, and without specific
investigation into whether or not the two cure the same symptom pictures.
And if we don't *know* which version we are prescribing, how can this
question be answered???

Now I don't think that's a matter of "not believing in homepathy"...

Regards,
Shannon
on 6/23/04 11:48 AM, VBLUES@aol.com at VBLUES@aol.com wrote:

Re: Why Nosodes Banned Germany

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:22 am
by VBLUES
In einer eMail vom 27.06.04 04:07:59 (MEZ) Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt
shannonnelson@tds.net:

>
28.6.4.
The point with "not believing in homeopathy" was referring to another remark
and was obvious. No offence in this, I do respect your opinion, I just
remarked what I saw but did not criticise it. There are many homepathic practitioners
- out of whatever group of persons - who actually are not convinced ...
Sterilization has nothing to do with this whole stuff, which operates on a
complete different, deeper, level.
Medorrhinum happens to be a good nosode, with great impact if chosen
correctly. The colour of eyes and the way the person is dressed are usually essential.
Beyond C 23 or so, there is nothing else molecular left in a globulus, so
what should there be sterilized for? There can be no bacteria there. It is just
the water molecule shaken in a certain combination with the initial remedy and
reforming, remolding and reenergizing itself in a specific way, so the action
after that. HOW exactly that happens, we do not know - at least I do not at
this moment. Kind regards, Dr.medic. Viorel V. Bucur (www.dr-bucur.com).

Re: Why Nosodes Banned Germany

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:52 pm
by Shannon Nelson
on 6/27/04 7:21 PM, VBLUES@aol.com at VBLUES@aol.com wrote:
Okay... Not obvious to me, as I don't know what remark you're referring to,
and perhaps it wasn't even one that I made. But I guess it doesn't matter.

...

Of course I understand that "symptom correspondence" comes from a level
deeper than contagion, and as I conceded, perhaps it's *possible* that
sterilized versus non-sterilized versions will work alike (tho I doubt that
they are *really* alike), but so far as I can see, that's just a theory, and
one which I would dearly love to see put to the test -- i.e., since we
already have provings of the non-sterilized version, we should now do
provings of the sterilized version, and see! Or, simply collecting clinical
observations, which can't be done without awareness of which version is
being used!

Sterilized versus non-sterilized are not the same nutritionally, e.g. for
milk; they are not the same in taste (thinking of milk again) or
absorbability, because the process of sterilization (usually heat) changes
the chemical structure. This makes it *in certain ways* a different
substance, with *in certain respects* different properties. In the case of
milk this difference has nothing to do with presence or absence of
microorganisms, but simply has to do with structural changes to the
substance itself. Maybe a substance can be sterilized without changing its
structure, and maybe this is done with Medhorrinum -- but who knows?

(BTW -- your next remark is not something I'm familiar with, and would love
to hear just what you mean? What eye color, and what way of dressing?)
If you re-read my remarks you will see that my doubt lies not with the
presence or absence of molecules, but with whether the initial molecules are
(structurally or) energetically the same as the sterilized ones, and
therefore whether their energetic signatures could still be alike.

Cheers,
Shannon

Re: Why Nosodes Banned Germany

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:34 am
by VBLUES
In einer eMail vom 28.06.04 15:12:38 (MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerzeit schreibt
shannonnelson@tds.net:

<< Sterilized Medhorrinum will not produce disease, whereas the
unsterilized
remark
Okay... Not obvious to me, as I don't know what remark you're referring to,
and perhaps it wasn't even one that I made. But I guess it doesn't matter.
...
Of course I understand that "symptom correspondence" comes from a level
deeper than contagion, and as I conceded, perhaps it's *possible* that
sterilized versus non-sterilized versions will work alike (tho I doubt that
they are *really* alike), but so far as I can see, that's just a theory, and
one which I would dearly love to see put to the test -- i.e., since we
already have provings of the non-sterilized version, we should now do
provings of the sterilized version, and see! Or, simply collecting clinical
observations, which can't be done without awareness of which version is
being used!
Sterilized versus non-sterilized are not the same nutritionally, e.g. for
milk; they are not the same in taste (thinking of milk again) or
absorbability, because the process of sterilization (usually heat) changes
the chemical structure. This makes it *in certain ways* a different
substance, with *in certain respects* different properties. In the case of
milk this difference has nothing to do with presence or absence of
microorganisms, but simply has to do with structural changes to the
substance itself. Maybe a substance can be sterilized without changing its
structure, and maybe this is done with Medhorrinum -- but who knows?
(BTW -- your next remark is not something I'm familiar with, and would love
to hear just what you mean? What eye color, and what way of dressing?)
If you re-read my remarks you will see that my doubt lies not with the
presence or absence of molecules, but with whether the initial molecules are
(structurally or) energetically the same as the sterilized ones, and
therefore whether their energetic signatures could still be alike.
Cheers,
Shannon
30.6.4.
I am very indebted to you indeed because you are reading with so much
attention and treating things so seriously. I' ll try to answer your questions step
by step.
The point with believing in homeopathy is always the same : it is the
"unbelievable" thing that in such high potency without any original molecule inside,
things still do work, the higher the dilution the stronger the action. This
looks very controversial at first sight. I believe you made a remark touching
this point although I do admit I can not remember the words exactly.
The sterilization thing is allright with me seen from THIS point of view, the
one you exposed in detail. The testing you proposed does make sense as the
milk - problem does, of course. Microwave or shock-refrigeration do change food
too, making it actually more or less "useless".
Regarding Medorrhinum, well, the eyes and the cloths are decisive for the
diagnosis. If wanted, I detail on this with pleasure. Kind regards, Dr.medic.
Viorel V. Bucur.

Re: Why Nosodes Banned Germany

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:49 pm
by Shannon Nelson
I would love to hear about the eyes and clothes of Medorrhinum!
Thankyou,
Shannon
:-)

on 6/30/04 3:32 AM, VBLUES@aol.com at VBLUES@aol.com wrote:

Re: Why Nosodes Banned Germany

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:07 pm
by VBLUES
In einer eMail vom 01.07.04 13:26:24 (MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerzeit schreibt
shannonnelson@tds.net:

<< I would love to hear about the eyes and clothes of Medorrhinum!
Thankyou,
Shannon
:-)
1.7.4.
Here you are. Well, Medorrhinum stands for excesses in every thinkable way,
starting with the way of life up to extremely high blood fat levels in early
years. But the central excess is the sexual one, meaning that Medorrhinums life
centers on sex and everything gets better after sex, especially after
succesfull sex! All the symptoms suddenly disappear. So the clothes and the way these
persons are dressed, are always centered on wooing and hooking somebody in.
Usually men (many pimps ...) wear strong colours not necessary fitting together,
shirts open down to the navel or close to that and big golden chains or
crosses, tatoos, stuff like this. Medorrhinum is a night hawk, sleeping well late
into the day and getting out in the afternoon or evening for "hunt", dressed
adequately, perfumed, oiled hair, etc., in a cheap and kitchy way, offensive,
but all centered in the final step on sex.
These guys drive big cars in usuitable colours (bright red Mercedeses or
Jaguars with many big spoilers and a star of gold on the hood while everybody will
expect such a brand to be decent, deep-blue or dark or green or so, etc.). Or
red Corvettes convertible, tuned up, so that everybody can HEAR he is around.
I do not mean very loud and rhythmic disco music, to be heard several streets
around - this usually is Tarantula. I mean the exhausting pipe of the car,
the engine sound, it is exciting, women like these things ... they might look
after him, etc.
Medorrhinum always have blue, rather pale blue than deep blue or
blue-greenish eyes and are very violent, short tempered, jelous and have a bad character.
They hit you in the back as soon as you turned around, like Lachesis does.
The "upper class" Medorrhinum, while seldom of course, might be a little more
polished but only on the surface. As soon as one scratches the paint off, the
rest will surface.
Medorrhinum drinks heavily (strong stuff - cognac, liquors, tough things no
beer or so) without being alcoholic in the pure sense of the term and might
get, while drunk, very violent and very jealous, especially if somebody at the
other table tries to catch the eye of "his babe" or he gets this imrpession even
if not being true. They often get involved in fist fights or knives fighting
in bars, etc.
In children, Medorrhinum usually stands for severe disease in an early age -
very severe asthma or other things like this in very early age, completely
unexpected and unsuitable otherwise.
As mentioned, very high blood fat levels while in school or as teenie. Other
excesses are heavy smoking, long car drives not making sense just out of love
for performance, just to show the others he might make Frankfurt- Milan in
just 6 hours not in 9 as usual. It is the dominant impression in everything they
do which shows excess.
These persons are quite finished when they are around 50 or so and die, for
todays realities, early and of severe, impressive diseases, in spectacular ways.
Medorrhinum enjoys beyond everything to live with 2 or 3 or more women the
same time and to play them one aganist the another - this nerve tittling he so
much loves! To make them jealous one another and he, being as a king, in the
middle.
They usually look tall, quite thinn and make an impression of "everything is
possible" for him, there is no "no", he does not know to say "no, I can' t",
while of course there are things he can not do.
Medorrhinum is very dense in southern Italy. I have a friend and patient who
does always the same thing:he drives from Frankfurt to Naples starting Friday
noon and returning sunday evening - about 2600 km one way, with a van, while
passing through Switzerland where you can drive only 1oo km/h - but this is the
point, despite these restrictions, he gets it made, because he gets
everything made. He starts the journey with a stack of 6 packs Marlboro read, stack of
several music cassetes in the other hand and as if he was driving home, the
most normal thing in the world, he starts THIS journey.
Trying to tell him he might get an heartattack and die at the wheel on the
road is of course useless, even for me - he immediately gets angry and does not
speak to me for 1 week or so, just because a dared to question his ability to
make this journey. The point is breaking the law in Switzerland, where you can
drive only 100 km/h and there is a lot of police and radars all over the
place and still get through in time to reach Naples and back!
So Medorrhinum actually can be spotted while just walking into your office
plus eventually saying a phrase or too, ordinary dirty language, like
Stramonium, while in Stramonium the outer appearence might be very elegant but when he
starts to speak, the language is very ordinary and unsuitable to the outlook.
An acquintance of mine, good dentist, rich and apparently very polished,
always very clean, expensive car and clothes talks to patients like this : when
the patients sits in the treatment chair, than he looks ferociously into his
eyes in the sense - now I am going to finish you, you asshole - and suddenly says
: just open up your fuckin' mouth or something like this. 2 of his sons are
Stramonium too (has 3 of them) - typical for these children, they hate showers
(no flowing water on the head and they play excessively with their genitals
even in public or if invited some place. One hand is always in the trousers).
Nice, isnt' t it? Kind regards, Dr. medic. Viorel V. Bucur.

Re: Why Nosodes Banned Germany

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:18 pm
by Shannon Nelson
Thanks, a very vivid and useful picture!
I'd like to add, tho, that Med has other sides; Med covers *both* ends of
the "extreme" spectrum, so can also be needed for someone who is timid and
withdrawn, oversensitive. I recall reading that a Med patient may reside at
either extreme, *or* may flip between one and the other; that in children
this may happen quickly and suddenly (e.g. from mania to lethargy), while in
adults it is more apt to happen gradually. I don't have access to my more
spcific descriptions now, but maybe will try in the future as I find it a
fascinating and very useful remedy.

best wishes,
Shannon

on 7/1/04 10:06 AM, VBLUES@aol.com at VBLUES@aol.com wrote:

Re: Why Nosodes Banned Germany

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:40 pm
by Eleana Needham
One other thing that Med kids do very well is FLIRT!!! And they tend to
have the most enormous eyelashes!

Best
Eleana

Re: Why Nosodes Banned Germany

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:49 am
by Rochelle
As do Phosphorus!!
www.rochellemarsden.co.uk

Re: Why Nosodes Banned Germany

Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:54 pm
by VBLUES
In einer eMail vom 02.07.04 23:12:24 (MEZ) Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt
eleanan@hotmail.com:

<< One other thing that Med kids do very well is FLIRT!!! And they tend to
have the most enormous eyelashes!
Best
Eleana
4.7.4.
I am sorry but "enormous eyelashes" are typical phosphoric, pure Ph or some
aassociation, usually Na-ph or Ca-ph - the most frequent ones anyway.
Kind regards, Dr.medic. Viorel V. Bucur (www.dr-bucur.com).