Minutus

Yes Shannon, all the examples you have given are due to metabolic problems that can change the genome in the foetus.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.

"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

www.naturamedica.co.nz

Here is a study I can really personally relate to:

Holocaust exposure induced intergenerational effects on FKBP5
methylation. DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.biopsych.2015.08.005

Basically, if I understood it well, methylation/epigenetics is transmissible intergenerationally....here is the question: is this a fixed situation or can that be reversed in the further generations? or simply controlled?

In our family, the expression of my Dad's experience are still present in some forms (at least IMO) in my children...has it become a "miasm", what I now call an "ancestral malady" (formerly described as ancestral miasm in the book)????

Fascinating.........

Joe.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.

"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

www.naturamedica.co.nz

My guess would be that future generations will decrease the dominance to lessen the presence, while in the mean time, palliation may be applied.
In the case I referenced I believe I have read some years ago about Rhus tox being used in cases of Rhuematic Fever. I know the son responds well to Rhus t for various afflictions including his rheumatic state. Does make one think .
Bob

That is so interesting!

I'm wishing I understood the study write-up better. Can you (or Irene or someone) explain a little to me about the practical effects of this change?

"Results

Holocaust exposure had an effect on FKBP5 methylation that was observed in exposed parents as well in their offspring. These effects were observed at bin 3/site 6. Interestingly, in Holocaust survivors, methylation at this site was higher in comparison with control subjects, [how does that show up? ] whereas in Holocaust offspring, methylation was lower. Methylation levels for exposed parents and their offspring were significantly correlated. In contrast to the findings at bin 3/site 6, offspring methylation at bin 2/sites 3 to 5 was associated with childhood physical and sexual abuse in interaction with an FKBP5 risk allele previously associated with vulnerability to psychological consequences of childhood adversity. The findings suggest the possibility of site specificity to environmental influences, as sites in bins 3 and 2 were differentially associated with parental trauma and the offspring’s own childhood trauma, respectively. FKBP5 methylation averaged across the three bins examined was associated with wake-up cortisol levels, indicating functional relevance of the methylation measures."
I *think* I gather that, if methylation is low (inefficient?), then certain (?)vitamins(?) are not absorbed efficiently, leading to likely deficiencies? (Which of course leads to all sorts of other effects.)

Shannon

I understand (but may be totally wrong) that it has to do with activation or inactivation of genes....this is not my speciality....but what is interesting is the trans-generation results, which I see in practice and my own family.

Joe.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.

"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

www.naturamedica.co.nz

genome (jēˈnōmˌ)
►
*

It is not the genome that is changed.

Sometimes it is an epigene switch that is acetylated ot methylated......(creating a miasm)

Other times it is direct damage to the thymus of the parent, which also causes involution of the thymus of any fetus, and they will be born without an effective thymus....quite a separate problem from an epigene switch change.
The stress level of the parent will determine how much cortisol (glucocorticoid) is produced, and that causes involution of the thymus of the parent, followed by involution of the offspring's thymus.
Other known causes of involuted thymus at birth, are ANY vaccinaton of a pregnant female.

SO there is more than one mechanism of passing on issues to the ofspring, but none of them involved the genome.
Both these known methods are transient and are not part of the permanent innate constitutional type.

The relevance of the thymus is often overlooked or not understood. But there is no immune system without it, and chroic diseases only occur - and eventually WILL occur - in any individual in which the thymus is nonfunctional due to involution at borth or ahny other time.

It is important to differentiate between gene damage and epigene switch changes and thymus involution.
These are three separate mechanisms, and ALL of them have the capability to pass on health issues to the offspring.
Of these ONLY gene damage (usually by gene mutation) affects the genome (the genes).
The other two mechanisms can adversely affect health, but do not change any genes.

Gene damage passes on genetic diseases only, such as the one that runs in my family which mishandles electrolytes. There is an actual gene (mutation) passed down for that. It happens to be a dominant gene so half the offspring will get it. Gene damage is always passed on accordig to dominant or recessive inheritance, and may be sex-linked if the relevant gene is on a sex chromosome rather than an autosome.
This gene damage mechaism does not affect all offspring as the genes are not ecessarily passed on when sex cells are formed, they may or may not be there.

Epigene switch changes are the issues that are passed down ALWAYS, (unlike gene damage) and whichHahnemann called miasms. Unlike gene damage, this issue can not be skipped by simply not getting the relevant gene from the parent. Here is where you find passed downissues from TB and HIV and all miasms> They go to offspring - ALL offspring - via epigene switch changes.

Thymus involution passes on the effects of excessive stress in the parent by damaging he thymus.

So in Shannon's examples of passed on issues:
a) Vit E deficiency caused a miasm to form.
It likely was seen in the first generation but not in the traditional ways. Scientists might not hae known what to lok for.
It is FREQUENTLY reported hwever that the effects of acquired miasms take two generations to show effecxts. THis has been so for famine research and diabetes epigene switches, and many cases where statistical research has shown specific effects in the gradchildren but not the first generation.
That the effects can be overcome when not repeated, is also seen in vaccination damage, where it takes three generations in cats without vaccines, to produce a healthy offspring.
I do not think we know for wsure what part of this has to do with an epigene switch (as we KNOW is the case for diseases like TB, HIV) and what part is thymic involution - or whether both are involved.

b) Starvation would definitely involute the thymus and that IS passed down to offspring.
It may ALSO trigger an epigene switch.
We do not yet know enough about it to say whether it is one or other or both.

c) Stress during pregnancy is PROVEN to be passed down by involution of the thymus of the fetus in utero.
So this is a known mechaism.

d) Drug addition in the parent will definitely involute the thymus of the fetus. There will also be direct drug damage from whatever passes through the placenta.

NONE of these examples involves genes.
That is important to understand.

STRESS:/CORTISOL:
The stress hormone cortisol, is produced in excess under ANY kind of stress. That includes physical stress, chemical stress, illness stress, emotional stress, nutritional stress, drug/vaccine stress, surgery, physical exertion and any other event that the BODY perceives as stressful.
THIS causes direct damage to the thymus, which can be passed on to offspring.
ALL glucocorticoid steroids do extreme thymus damage.The artificial ones like prednisone as well. A SINGLE dose of artificial cortisol (prednisone, dexamethosone, triamcinolone, prednisolone, etc) will destroy 90% of the thymus in ONE dose.
Our own production of cortisol under anything the body perceives as stress, has the same destructive effect on the thymus. The thymus is the first line of defence for both acute and chroinic diseases, but it the ONLY defence against chronic diseae. (Acue disease can develop an antibody backup.)

Some references involving thymus damage:
Cortisol/gluco-corticoids damage the thymus:
>
http://tpx.sagepub.com/content/34/5/515.full
General undernutrition, and specific deficiencies of Vitamin B6, amino acids, fatty acids, and minerals such as zinc cause immunosuppression and a decrease in thymic weight (Robson and Schwartz, 1975 ; Corman, 1985 ; Mittal et al., 1988 ; Good and Lorenz, 1992 ). In addition, feed and/or water restriction are significant stressors, resulting in secondary immunosuppression via elevated adrenocortical hormone (eg cortisol) levels (Levine et al., 1993 ).
Known environmental stressors are social ranking within gang-housing systems, immobilization, as well as excessive changes in temperature or humidity and restriction of access to food and water (Gamallo et al., 1986 ; Kioukia-Fougia et al., 2002 ; Dal-Zotto et al., 2003 ; Engler and Stefanski, 2003 ).
For a more in-depth discussion of immunotoxicology, the following references should be consulted: De Waal et al. (1997) ; Kuper et al. (1995) ; Schuurman et al. (1991) ; Luster et al. (1988); Koller (1987) ; Dean and Thurmond (1987) ; and Vos et al. (1998) .
SO in summary:
Three known mechanisms pass on health issues to offspring.
They are:
Gene damage/mutation, dominant or recessive, passed on to SOME offsping who happen to get the gene.
Epigene switch changes, from current or prior generation switch changes (aka miasms)
Thymus involution due to external stressors.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Yes and your article above has proof positive of that.
I think it can be removed, but with great difficulty and persistence becasue there is a cortisol/thymus connection as also mentioned in your study referenced above, and the resultant thymic involution is extremely resistant to homeopathy.
I think as homeopaths we need to put great emphasis on thymus involvement in chronic disease.

SO a miasm - this miasm - needs perhaps a multifaceted approach to improve thymus function, plus to include nutrition that encourages acetylation, while using the ICT in F series as developed by your good self.

The miasms I have had to deal with in cats - such as the vaccine-induced one I see so ofthen - do not compare with the level of trauma behind this holocaust miasm, so I do not know that they can be compared - but the cat ones seem to be able to be removed, though taking an average of 2.5 years of homeopathic persistence. That is a long time in a cat's life.
I have had 21 cases so far. One cat passed on before the resolution of the problem. The others did finally become healthy. It seems to be enough to suggest that miasm removal is possible.

I also find that in cases of dire illness like FIP or cancer, that when using the ICT in these, although it does not address the FIP or cancer directly, it will remove other prior health issues as well as the FIP or cancer issue. it seems that ICT addresses the involution of the thymus especially well.
And that is a precursor needed for any restoration from chronic health issues.
My own health fails to respond becasue of maintaining thymus involution for example. Moducare gives me some help but is a booster not a healer of thymus. I can use local remedies or simillimum for specifics like acutes but with no thymus I cannot get rid of the core disesase itself.

I found it interesting that the holocauset miasm/epigene article you reference has so much cross-reference to this cortisol/thymus aspect - which I often suspect has a lot to do with whether an epigene switch exists or not.

I am not so much in favor of an "ancestral malady" term, maybe we shoud stick to "miasm".
The reason is that it is too easy to confuse the different mecanisms of inheritance that are different, but which all could be termed ancestral in some way.
Thymus involution is passed to offspring - it is thus ancestral.
Gene mutations can be passed on to offspring by dominance/recessive gene inheritance - so ancestral.
Horizontally aquired genes from Neanderthal interbreeding will be passed on - so ancestral.
ALl are different so "ancestral" would add confuion between them.

"Miasm" has the known connotations of being acquired in one lifetime and passed down to offspring, without having to assume a specific mecanism at this point, even though the epigene switch mechansm IS at least part of the answer.
I am not convinced it is the whole answer - thymus involution has to be there also IMO.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Will try:

Epigene material surrounds the DNA we have, kindof like a long spiral of stuff around the chromosome material that is the DNA. Under the microscope a chromosome looks like a fat lengthy thing with a rather fuzzy looking outer part - a bit like a fat worm shape, and the bumps of the worm are the spirals of epigene material around the main DNA genetic strands that are the actual DNA (or RNA in some viruses).

FKBPS is the abbreviation name of a specific gene in the DNA of a specific chromosome. A gene is an instruction about how to make a needed chemical component for life, basically a protein/enzyme. The cell is full of chemical mix, and it goes to the operations center (DNA) to go get instructions on how to make what it needs. Except, sometimes that spiral of epigene material gets in the way.

Genes usually "code for" (have the blueprint for manufacture of)
a specific protein. I this case it is a very important protein - actually an enzyme- for protein handling and for immune system and adrenal fuction.
One job it has is it manages protein folding - proteins have complex shapes made by their atoms and the bonds or joints between them, and it is important for them to not be physically folded up the wrong way (by twisting their joints or bonds) as that can interfere with chemical reactions they need to make, based on their shape physically.
This gene's protein also binds to immuno-suppressants, so if it is not there, the immune system will be suppressed, and if it is there, it will put a straightjacket on the immuno-suppressants so they are useless.
There are at least three other functions of ths enzyme, including effects on gluco-corticoid receptors (hence a link with thymus function).

IF the epigene area surrounding the DNA position of this gene, is methylated, (a chemical process) that means that there is a huge constriction of the spiral of epigene material around that piece of DNA where this gene sits, (think closed slinky as opposed to open slinky with spaces between) and it prevents THIS gene from being used to make the critically important enzyme. The cell chemicals that normally would go read the gene information to know how to make the enzyme, literally can not get to the gene to do that - becasue the slinky epigene layer around it is too tightly shut.

The chemical reaction process needed to undo the epigene constriction and "open up the slinky" around the gene, so the gene can be used, is called acetylation. The trick is to acetylate JUST the epigene layer around THAT gene, and not mess with the entire epigene layer elsewhere by tossing in the chemicals for acetylation all over the place.
Some genes NEED to be acetylated, others NEED to be methylted for healthy function.

The article talks of "methylation levels" - how much methylation is constricting the epigene area around a gene. Basically methylation puts the gene in a safe where nothing can get to it to use its protein blueprint and make the relevant protein. The more an epigene surrounding layer is methylated, the thicker the "slinky" (I sure hope everyone knows what a slinky is!) type material around the DNA gets around that gene, and the harder it is to acetylate (the opposite chemical process to methylation) the area enough to get the gene exposed to the cell contents that need access to use it.

People with PTSD also have this gene methylated and unusable.
But exactly WHERE along the gene it is methylated, also can vary. For example If it methylated only in a certain area along the gene but not all of it (an area having a "bin" number) that may have been caused by childhood sexual abuse for example, and it is enough of a methylation to predispose further methylation if they are exposed later to say PTSD - in which case the entire gene will be methylated, and it will occur more easily if it already got started being methylated as a child.

Certain amounts of methylation of this gene can occur in response to many things, stress for example, anxiety, depression etc.

Does that help?

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

That is correct.
Methylation causes (physically) blocking epigene material to condense around the gene so it cannot be used.
The way epigene material happen to be set up - with physical blocks of some genes along the chromosome - is an integral part of the chromosomes used in reproduction. So whatever epigene structures/settings are present at time of development of the egg and sperm, those are passed on to offspring.

Irene

--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

OUTSTANDING AND MUCH APPRECIATED.
Roger Bird
________________________________

From: minutus@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Irene de Villiers furryboots@icehouse.net [minutus]
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 8:57 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Genetics and Homeopathy
Will try:

Epigene material surrounds the DNA we have, kindof like a long spiral of stuff around the chromosome material that is the DNA. Under the microscope a chromosome looks like a fat lengthy thing with a rather fuzzy looking outer part - a bit like a fat worm shape, and the bumps of the worm are the spirals of epigene material around the main DNA genetic strands that are the actual DNA (or RNA in some viruses).

FKBPS is the abbreviation name of a specific gene in the DNA of a specific chromosome. A gene is an instruction about how to make a needed chemical component for life, basically a protein/enzyme. The cell is full of chemical mix, and it goes to the operations center (DNA) to go get instructions on how to make what it needs. Except, sometimes that spiral of epigene material gets in the way.

Genes usually "code for" (have the blueprint for manufacture of)
a specific protein. I this case it is a very important protein - actually an enzyme- for protein handling and for immune system and adrenal fuction.
One job it has is it manages protein folding - proteins have complex shapes made by their atoms and the bonds or joints between them, and it is important for them to not be physically folded up the wrong way (by twisting their joints or bonds) as that can interfere with chemical reactions they need to make, based on their shape physically.
This gene's protein also binds to immuno-suppressants, so if it is not there, the immune system will be suppressed, and if it is there, it will put a straightjacket on the immuno-suppressants so they are useless.
There are at least three other functions of ths enzyme, including effects on gluco-corticoid receptors (hence a link with thymus function).

IF the epigene area surrounding the DNA position of this gene, is methylated, (a chemical process) that means that there is a huge constriction of the spiral of epigene material around that piece of DNA where this gene sits, (think closed slinky as opposed to open slinky with spaces between) and it prevents THIS gene from being used to make the critically important enzyme. The cell chemicals that normally would go read the gene information to know how to make the enzyme, literally can not get to the gene to do that - becasue the slinky epigene layer around it is too tightly shut.

The chemical reaction process needed to undo the epigene constriction and "open up the slinky" around the gene, so the gene can be used, is called acetylation. The trick is to acetylate JUST the epigene layer around THAT gene, and not mess with the entire epigene layer elsewhere by tossing in the chemicals for acetylation all over the place.
Some genes NEED to be acetylated, others NEED to be methylted for healthy function.

The article talks of "methylation levels" - how much methylation is constricting the epigene area around a gene. Basically methylation puts the gene in a safe where nothing can get to it to use its protein blueprint and make the relevant protein. The more an epigene surrounding layer is methylated, the thicker the "slinky" (I sure hope everyone knows what a slinky is!) type material around the DNA gets around that gene, and the harder it is to acetylate (the opposite chemical process to methylation) the area enough to get the gene exposed to the cell contents that need access to use it.

People with PTSD also have this gene methylated and unusable.
But exactly WHERE along the gene it is methylated, also can vary. For example If it methylated only in a certain area along the gene but not all of it (an area having a "bin" number) that may have been caused by childhood sexual abuse for example, and it is enough of a methylation to predispose further methylation if they are exposed later to say PTSD - in which case the entire gene will be methylated, and it will occur more easily if it already got started being methylated as a child.

Certain amounts of methylation of this gene can occur in response to many things, stress for example, anxiety, depression etc.

Does that help?

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."