Minutus

Roger, I have worked with two previous homeopaths, and the last of them as much as told me that the psoric issues I had would never get any better, and that one pretty much endures them until they kill you. This, after a great deal of progress had been made with this practitioner! It took a couple of astute friends who were practitioners to convince me there was in fact much yet to be done, and who recommended a brilliant and thoughtful practitioner who has come up with remedies of which no one else thought - and they are working! There IS more to do, but our collaboration is fruitful and satisfying. I don't expect a one-remedy cure, and greatly enjoy and appreciate the process.

We expect nothing from conventional doctors, and are not disappointed:) Yet we pay their fees, when they say right out that they cannot cure you but they could try this substance or other to make you feel better, although it might have side effects. Now, this sounds like a huge lapse in logic, no? Yet, a gentle and unassuming homeopathic practitioner tells no lies, makes no promises, sets no time limits, and you stand there daring to be cured and call him a charlatan if he cannot produce "results".

You're right; this is not well-digging. But neither is a fine restaurant, a movie, or even a vacation possessed of some foreseeable outcome. You might say "Well, we'll never go THERE again..." but you don't begrudge the suppliers the money spent, and you don't define that outcome before you pay for it. Like everything else in life, homeopathy is a journey, a learning. However, you are free to play hookey, or tear the pages of the book.

Best,

ginny

--

Ginny Wilken

gwilken@fastmail.fm
________________________________

There seems to be a confusion here between the duty of provision and the duty of service.

The duty of provision applies when you buy a product that you expect to be delivered and to work properly, or a service that is supposed to accomplish something tangible, like a plumbing installation: it either works or not.

The duty of service is that the provider of the service has to do his job to the best of his abilities, keep informed about the changes, and new "discoveries", continue his education and do his utmost to satisfy the client's needs: this applies to lawyers (as much as I dislike them, they do not always win the case for you or obtain the expected result by no fault of theirs), and especially to any health practitioner: eve the most skilled surgeon has failures and mishaps (that is why we have insurance), patients and diseases are often unpredictable, reactions to treatments unforeseen. It is not like plugging your new TV in and rightfully expecting to see all the channels you paid for.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.

"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

www.naturamedica.co.nz
________________________________

Same for homeopaths.
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Ginny,

I never called any homeopath a charlatan. You seem to be assuming that I cut conventional medical doctors some slack but I don't cut homeopaths some slack. I pretty much barf of conventional medical doctors, so I hardly think that I am being unfair to homeopaths.

It is the nature of homeopathy that hoped for results can usually be expected, unlike chiropractic.

I don't go to conventional medical so-called doctors, so you can't say that I am being hypocritical to pay them without results. It is precisely because I don't expect results that I don't go to them blindly or usually. They can do some things just great, like setting my son's broken arm. But I did not expect that they would be able to heal my collapsed disk (L5-S1). Instead I healed it myself. This morning I ran 12 minutes (in 5 degrees F) and have done 75 minutes of rebounding, after working at healing myself for the past 20 months. I expect that not every healer can heal a person. People have to take responsibility for their own health and use the healers (and doctors) that they think will help them. I went to a naturopath (using homeopathy), a Chinese healer, and a chiropractor. None of them made a dent in my problem/pain. When I changed my diet drastically to very low carbs and no wheat, I started getting real results. None of those healers suggested that I do this, nor did they make any suggestions with regard to diet, except that Chinese doctor suggested that I make soups so as to better assimilate minerals.

Given that I am sort of a walking (and running and rebounding) miracle, I feel that I actually know something about healing. But I digress.

I am tired of this subject. I won't repeat the fact again that I believe that I (and my loved ones) should get results out of homeopaths and if I don't I will become discouraged from going to them. Nothing that you can say will change that.

Roger
________________________________

To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 18:48:01 -0800
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Dana Ullman's newest Huffingtonpost article: How the AMA Got Rich & Powerful
Roger, I have worked with two previous homeopaths, and the last of them as much as told me that the psoric issues I had would never get any better, and that one pretty much endures them until they kill you. This, after a great deal of progress had been made with this practitioner! It took a couple of astute friends who were practitioners to convince me there was in fact much yet to be done, and who recommended a brilliant and thoughtful practitioner who has come up with remedies of which no one else thought - and they are working! There IS more to do, but our collaboration is fruitful and satisfying. I don't expect a one-remedy cure, and greatly enjoy and appreciate the process.

We expect nothing from conventional doctors, and are not disappointed:) Yet we pay their fees, when they say right out that they cannot cure you but they could try this substance or other to make you feel better, although it might have side effects. Now, this sounds like a huge lapse in logic, no? Yet, a gentle and unassuming homeopathic practitioner tells no lies, makes no promises, sets no time limits, and you stand there daring to be cured and call him a charlatan if he cannot produce "results".

You're right; this is not well-digging. But neither is a fine restaurant, a movie, or even a vacation possessed of some foreseeable outcome. You might say "Well, we'll never go THERE again..." but you don't begrudge the suppliers the money spent, and you don't define that outcome before you pay for it. Like everything else in life, homeopathy is a journey, a learning. However, you are free to play hookey, or tear the pages of the book.

Best,

ginny

--

Ginny Wilken

gwilken@fastmail.fm
________________________________

But I can and will withhold my patronage because homeopaths are did not deliver for Nennette and myself. The chiropractor says up front that he is aiding one's inner healer, and if he adjusts the back, only a complete moron would think that his inner healer was not aided. But the homeopath asks about all of your symptoms, but if there is no improvement in any of those symptoms, as what happened with Nennette and myself, then there is going to be some serious disappointment.

Why would I pay money for nothing? Honestly, I don't understand why you don't get it. It doesn't mean squat to me if you come from a long line of homeopaths who have done a lot of good for people. If I don't gain anything from it, why should I pay money for the next homeopath. IT DID NOT WORK. I feel serious buyers remorse.

If it makes you feel any better, I am going to call Dr. Cooper and talk to him about my disappointment. But I don't know what I am going to do about Nennette's disappoint.

But you people act like you are so above us lowly patients that we should pay you simply because you are so brilliant and wonderful. Perhaps I should send you a check now, Irene, because you are so brilliant and you know so much; never mind the need for me to talk with you for an hour about my symptoms; if diet is maintaining the symptoms, I should just send you a check and we can not bother with the interview.

Roger Bird
________________________________

To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 04:42:05 -0800
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Dana Ullman's newest Huffingtonpost article: How the AMA Got Rich & Powerful
Same for homeopaths.
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Hi Roger,

First, I offer sympathies on how difficult it is to keep waiting for results! When to give up, that's always a tough call.

When the "how long should it take" issues comes up, I always remember experience with my then-toddler daughter. It took four years to find her much-needed "miracle remedy" (and yes there was more work to do after that), but the changes it brought would have been worth *any* amount. I do believe it was effectively a lifesaver, both for her and for me.

Sometimes during those four years, I wondered if I should give up on it (for her; remedies had been working very well for the rest of us), but instead I kept that as *one* of the tools we kept working with in trying to help her.
I dropped it back to off-and-on, doing other things in between as I could think of any to try (food allergies? helped; tiny-body-work? helped. Ditto herbs, vitamins, special foods…) All helped, but none were solving the problem (none helped a *lot*, and none were curative of that *part* of her situation) until the remedy was found -- but finally it was.

I had huge advantages in my efforts to "stick to it". First, he already had a great track record with my husband and myself; second, we had a great working relationship with him. He was patient, informative, and willing to work with me through whatever detours and delays I needed to take. I had confidence in him -- *and* I had not found anything else that offered meaningful help either; I just kept trying things -- including taking her back to our homeopath, over and over, and finally it paid off, when he finally learned to recognize what she needed.

Could I advise another person to stick to the process (off-and-on, if our case) for as long as four years? And oh yes, a lot of money. (Almost all of it out-of-pocket, not insurance.) It's a tough call, but if you have homeopath you feel good about, it may be worth just letting it be part of your ongoing list of efforts, and hang with it. If you *don't* have one you like, that is a different story. Any method (or other tool) is really only as good as the person using it, and not all homeopaths are equally well grounded in all facets and aspects either of homeopathy, or of understanding *people*.

Studying the subject on one's own (as I did) can be a very double-edged sword; there were many times when I'd read something that led me to disagree with our homeopath's choices -- and he was almost always right; in the early years when I disagreed with him, I was almost always wrong. (And do note that I said *almost*…)

I think it's very useful when a homeopath has other things to offer as well, so they can be of *some* help even when "the remedy is wrong". Our homeopath was wonderful with "patient education", so I was always learning from it; he brought into play his medical training (much of which *any* trained homeopath will have), and understanding of developmental issues and family dynamics (ditto). So even during the long and frustrating search for *the remedy* (the first spot-on chronic remedy), he found ways to teach and guide and encourage us -- oh, and in the mean time he often treated *me* for the stresses I was under in trying to raise my poor, suffering little monster. (Who BTW is now "all grown up" and doing just great, said the proud mama!)

Re the payment issue, I agree that's a tough one! Personally I've only treated friends-and-family, and the occasional animal, so payment hash't been an issue. (Not always a plus.) But I decided long ago that I am paying for their time, effort, and training -- there are no guarantees in this world. Some homeopaths offer hardship discounts; some are willing to make other arrangements. And sometimes not… Good luck with it, may something work out for you both!!

Shannon
________________________________