Minutus

Hi Roger,

I'm curious, how many visits she she return for, before giving up?

Shannon

(PS and it is a fact, that homeopathy can and does work even through twinkies. I have seen it within my own family. At least to a point.)
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Irene, if the below were true, how come we get into such debates here about what constitutes a healthy diet? My experience here is that some people here are not all that knowledgeable about diet and lifestyle.

And what guarantee is there that the client will or can follow the dietary advice given?

Roger Bird
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To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 05:28:07 -0800
Subject: Re: [Minutus] History of Homeopathy - more on Decline of Homeopathy in US

No.
There is no homeopath who skips Hahnemann's assertion to remove maintaining cause.
You will get that for some fly by night peple, not any trained homeopath.
Here too the AVMA and AMA and Big Pharma are at pains to spread around any incident as you describe so it sounds in the media like a normal frequent event.

Basically, what you and others are saying is that the only valid perspective on the reason that homeopathy declined is the perspective of the practitioner of homeopathy, NOT the perspective of the patient or society at large. Believe it or not, patients and common folk also have a perspective. And I am saying that this perspective of the patient is also important for the decline in homeopathy, that the impact of fake-foods clouded their perception and made it difficult if not impossible for them to see any results; consequently they had no enthusiasm for homeopathy to pass on to other people.

Your profession lives and dies based upon customers. If you have no customers, you have no profession. If your customers don't get a benefit from homeopathy, they will NOT garner new customers for you. I have had many failures of homeopathy, but my first experience was spectacular, so I kept the faith. But I bet that many of my failures were the result of too many carbs and sugar.

Roger Bird
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To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 05:28:07 -0800
Subject: Re: [Minutus] History of Homeopathy - more on Decline of Homeopathy in US
Yes - but you shoud select whom you consider an authority very carefully
A PhD can be a really good qualification or it can stand for piled higher and deeper.
YOU need to figure which it is. You also need the qualification to be in the right field. A PhD in Theology is not so great for someone selling diet books, unless they expect the bible itself to become breakfast cereal with insense as desert.
That is not in dispute,
What is in dispute is that this has anything to do with the low current use of homeopathy in USA.
No.
There is no homeopath who skips Hahnemann's assertion to remove maintaining cause.
You will get that for some fly by night peple, not any trained homeopath.
Here too the AVMA and AMA and Big Pharma are at pains to spread around any incident as you describe so it sounds in the media like a normal frequent event.
It is not.
They are also at pains to allow anyone to call themsleves a homeopath in USA - so t6hey can j umpo on the unetica ones who do so and publicize that ALL homeopahty is that way.
You are (no offence intended) being a sucker for that:-(
Not just anyone can call themseves a vet, but my cat could hang up a shingle quite legally, as a homeopath.
AS a consumer - LOOK for the D.I Vet or D.Vet Hom or some such qualification.
It is rare and occurs with those wihtout proper training in homeopathy -
it is common in the vet profession however.
In vethom it occurs now and then with vets who have that four or five weekend course by someone with zero homeopahty credentials - but it occurs DAILY with vets who do not know their allopathic job and canm;t even read a blood test much less know when to order one.
YOu have it backwards as to where the ripoffs are happening.
Old ones too.
I learned from one such.
ANY trained homeopath has that approach - at any generation since Hahnemann.

Sorry but you do have it backwards.
In addition, a good remedy will help with the diet compliance:-)
Oh thou of little faith and too much exposure to propaganda against homeopathy.


Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

I do not accept that. My case is that I was an obnoxious, irritable hothead for almost my entire life. I even had a 2nd grade report card with the teacher saying "Roger is learning to control his temper", which is teacherese for "Roger has a bad temper". I did homeopathy and a lot of other things for 60 freaking years, and absolutely, positively nothing worked. I did homeopathy from Dr. Fatheringham (?name) and Dr. Roger Morrison while he was in Albany, California. I had an MD notice that my "funny" bone nerve was very sensitive. Nothing did squat. But when I reduced my carbs greatly and eliminated wheat entirely, my irritability evaporated. If homeopaths were all in agreement about diet, why is there so much debate here. It is not because of me because there are all kinds of different responses here about diet.

Roger Bird
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To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:50:24 -0600
Subject: Re: [Minutus] History of Homeopathy - more on Decline of Homeopathy in US

And yet there were, all along, *some* homeopaths who *were* getting good results; there just were far too few of them, because there was far too little training available for making more. Blaming it on the prevailing society's diet is just not an adequate explanation. That's how your reasoning is flawed!
Having taken my own family (self, husband, and two kids) through decades of homeopathy, I can tell you very authoritatively that (a) "the right remedy" makes it easier to follow "the right diet" (and much increases motivation), and (b) almost always the remedy *will* have good effect, even in the face of a crummy diet. Yes it will work far *better* if the diet and other lifestyle factors are appropriate, but homeopaths today are able to cure even under these circumstances -- and homeopaths in those days were similarly able to. IF the remedies were well chosen, which happens reliably only IF the homeopath is well trained.

Shannon
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Dear Shannon,

She lives 870 miles away, and she doesn't communicate all that great via email, so I don't know how many times she went back. But I think that she said that the first visit was $180. So she may have seen the homeopath (an Indian lady) perhaps 3 or 4 times. It is also possible that she may have benefited but did not connect the dots to homeopathy. But that just illustrates my point. People won't spread homeopathy unless the believe that it has helped them.

I think that it is a little arrogant to think that just because a homeopath puts out a shingle and does some advertising that the world is going to beat a path to their door. Most patients are the result of other satisfied patients talking.

Roger Bird
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To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 12:20:03 -0600
Subject: Re: [Minutus] History of Homeopathy - more on Decline of Homeopathy in US

Hi Roger,
I'm curious, how many visits she she return for, before giving up?

Shannon

(PS and it is a fact, that homeopathy can and does work even through twinkies. I have seen it within my own family. At least to a point.)

Much of the diet discussion here has been WAY beyond what any homeopath ought to be advocating for his/her patients, as a homeopath. Veganism, meat-or-no, raw meat, vegetarianism, all of that is way beyond what Hahnemann ever talked about, and well into the realm of "individualization" and/or theorizing and speculation.

But getting info about the person's usual diet, and giving common sense advise as needed, that is very much part of what we are trained to do, though some give it more attention than others.

There is NO guarantee that the client will or can follow the advice given, and that's just life. As one gets healthier, it becomes easier to see which things (including foods) are helpful and harmful, and motivation and capacity for making changes also improve. This is the Voice of Experience speaking on that one.
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For a long time now, I have taken the habit of starting the treatment by setting the nutrition right, either before any other prescription if it is really terrible or at the same time.
It allows me to eliminate complaints, symptoms and signs that are related to the nutrition but do not really belong to the patient, unless of course there is a situation like bulimia or uncontrollable craving.
Really simplifies the repertorisation, the choice of rubrics and produces very accurate remedies.

Booklet about that in writing now.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.

"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

www.naturamedica.co.nz
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Will look forward to seeing it. We see a lot of it in people over here.

t
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Agreed.

Shannon you are correct, there is no reason to believe a patient will follow a plan. But, I do think this discussion is pertinent to us as practitioners. Nutritional deficiencies, eating habits and diseases are quite within our treatment of patients. If for no better reason than it may show us where to look for a remedy (for instance an inability to eat onions, desires fats, etc)
Cravings and aversions are very much factors in what we do.

This discussion on dietary topics, and food ideas I found very helpful in understanding both the theory, knowledge and even prejudices of different eating styles, habits and belief's..

I am a type A (O) Rh negative blood, I am happy most of the time being a vegetarian, however that recessive O rears it's head periodically (maybe monthly) and when it does I actually crave meat, a lot of it, Then I can go a relatively long time without eating and without missing meats, actually I can even get adverse meat for a period of time after having it.

Humans have both learned and inherited behaviors and we must honor their decisions. That does not mean we cannot help them, but our help must be done on their own time line.

I have an MS patient who was eating a greatly reduced (low fat) diet. I told her to eat like her mother and ancestors ate (healthy people who lived a reasonably long life), two things happened at the same time, first I had given her a good remedy, and second she started eating her mother's food and said she felt fantastic. Mother is a first generation in this country and cooks with a much higher fat content diet - and no it was not all the remedy as she slipped back a bit a couple of days after her test dose, so she was just learning her remedy redose pace, but the ms sx never really returned and the adjusted diet is sustaining her much better.

Thank you everyone for this discussion. I enjoyed it and learned a lot.

Maria
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