Belated posting of intermediate agreed definition of homoeopathy

[Ellen Madono]

Maria posted this:

Dr. Joseph Rozencwajg 3/23/2014:

"Homeopathy is a natural therapy that attempts to restore health to the whole patient without neglecting the actual presenting problems.
It does that by considering at the same time the main complaints while putting them into the perspective of everything else happening to the patient during his life, taking into account all aspects, physical, mental, emotional and psychological.

The treatment is done essentially by offering remedies made of substances that, given to a healthy person, could create the same symptoms and signs presented by the patient, prepared in such a way that all toxicity is removed."

Ellen Madono

[John Harvey]

Hi, Ellen --

Yes, this seems to be the description that Joe and I began with, the one that came from his dog. We ended up (in the same thread) with the definition I posted at the start of this thread. It's imperfect, but serviceable: unlike the description it commenced life as, it is a definition, and it's accurate as far as it goes except for the suggestion of a successful outcome that possibly inheres in the word "remedy", which is readily replaced with "medicine".

Cheers!

John

[Fran Sheffield]

I may have missed things in this thread but here are my thoughts....

I think, in the past, we have been speaking at cross purposes when discussing a definition.

Some have been trying to define the phenomena (and resulting effects) caused by similars while others have been trying to define a practice based on part of these effects.

I have argued that no definition is complete unless it includes the preventative effects of homeopathy while others have argued that homeopathy only pertains to the narrower practice of treatment, and not prevention at all.

For those who favour the second, I would ask, what do we call the effects of prophylaxis if they are not homeopathic? They certainly can't be called allopathic or enantiopathic, or even isopathic or nosopathic (as they are not a prerequisite for prophylaxis). There is no other descriptive name that is suitable than homeopathic.

That being so, doesn't it seem odd to leave the prophylactic effects of homeopathy out of its definition? If we want to do that, perhaps we should split homeopathy into two unnecessary sub-practices - treatment homeopathy and prevention homeopathy - and have a separate definition for both? Even then we will have to refer to what it is they have in common.

Kind regards, Fran.

[John Harvey]

Hi, Fran --

Nice to see you back in this discussion.

The notion of including a means of treatment on the basis of its results is inherently problematic, as we've discussed before, because the results don't determine the means. (Neither do the results determine the primary effects of the treatment/prophylactic, of course.)

But could we look at this question from the point of view of exactly what the homoeoprophylactic method is? Let's assume that the method relies on both proving symptoms (which of course it does) and symptoms that it is attempting to "treat" in advance of their appearance (though the detail of this must be clear if it is to be addressed in a definition of homoeopathy). All we'd then have to work out is whether it was Hahnemann's intention to encompass such methods in the meaning of homoeopathy.

Even if he did not, it would seem rational and consistent, as you've suggested, to be able to use the word "homoeopathic" in relation to prevention as well as in relation to treatment, given that it is possible to specify a specific set of symptoms (rather than a disease name).

Cheers!

John
E&OE

[healthinfo6]

After stumbling upon this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitalism
I think we should reflect this fact that differentiates homeopathy from other "natural" therapies and allopathy.
Also, s/b more forceful, does pharma say they "attempt to" ?
"without neglecting" sounds like a double negative
not "could" , does.
why say "all toxicity is removed" as if all ingredients used are toxic??
instead of improvement, could say health restoration.
My tightened version for consideration:
"Homeopathy is a vitalistic therapy that restores health to the whole person
including actual presenting problems.
Homeopathy considers a patient's chief complaints put into perspective with their overall past life history including physical, mental, emotional and psychological aspects.
Healing and improvement occurs using remedies made of substances when given to a healthy person creates symptoms and signs presented by the patient, prepared so all toxicity is removed."
Susan

[John R. Benneth]

Homeopathy - The use of a substance or disease agent to create an artificial disease with the same symptoms as the one to be cured,
In a message dated 4/30/2014 8:54:27 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, John.P.Harvey@gmail.com writes:
John Benneth, Homoeopath
PG Hom - London (Hons.)
http://johnbenneth.com
SKYPE: John Benneth (Portland, Oregon)
503- 819 - 7777 (USA)

[Hennie Duits]

If anyone would choose to be so rude as to say

"you still understand nothing at all about what you purport to practise"

to me, I would refrain from answering this person until apologies have
been made for such insulting words.

Mr. Harvey seems to take pleasure in hurting people.

John Harvey schreef op 1-5-2014 10:57:

[John Harvey]

I'm sure Mr Harvey wouldn't presume to say it to you, Hennie, until you'd thoroughly made the case for him already several times over in your efforts to frustrate everybody else on the list's engagement in meaningful dialogue with you by repeatedly and wilfully confusing homoeopathy and those other practices you'd already agreed it was distinct from!

Kind regards,

John

[Irene de Villiers]

Agree, Thanks for the wisdom Hennie.
A gentleman would indeed apologize for such inexcusable behavior - or not engage in it in the first place.
I chose to filter Harvey's posts out of my system, so to me it looks like he/she does not belong to Minutus.
It has made for a refreshing change.
Namaste,
Irene

--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[John Harvey]

Always a bridesmaid, Irene?

Have you thought, yet, about responding to the questions of clarification that you ruled too difficult to answer a couple of weeks ago? Or are you capable only of demeaning the clothing they come in?

Let's get down to tin tacks, Irene: if you don't know what you mean by the mountains of semiliterate confusable claims you make, you've done everything possible to assure us of that fact. If you do know what you mean, it may be time to make a bit of an effort to communicate it.

John