Minutus

Hope it worked?
Have not needed either so far.
That is enough to trigger diabetes.
The physical stress was then maintained by emotional stress:
But it is only twice a day so that's a big potential problem, whatever is fed.
(potential as he has outside acess)
Not good..

Household water bowls need to be wide enough to accommodate whiskers (like outdoor puddles do) as cats cannot see close up and do not want their noses dunked while breathing. ALso need opaque water bowls as trasparent prevent sseeing the water surface. Second hand opaque punch bowls work well - so do toilets
Cooked is better. Raw grows bacteria and they double every 20 mins after slaughter, cuaing depletion of feline antioxidants to detoxify its suface toxins and bacterial by-products. Those (except salmonella) are destroyed in cooking. So cooked is better, and loses no nutrients.
Which has fruit and veg toxins.
They are loaded with fruit and veg.
One small berry is too much. The cat cannot metabolize it and is poisoned by it.
It also can explain the high urine pH that damages kidneys, it does not take much.
The correct fruit and veg is ZERO.
Otherwsie it is like good meat with poison sauce - does not take much poison to poison the cat.
I agree, but experience shows some cats do well on beef. They do not do well on pork except maybe liver.
Is it out of the fridge and cold when he does that?
Oh an excellent sign.
Don't know. But some people often start a case with Sulph.
Just glad he is over the ketosis, it can be very hard to reverse in cats.

If memory serves, Celtic sea salt (or any sea salt) is about 85% sodium salt. May as well be table salt.
I dunno why people do not see that sea salt is just sodium chloride with contaminants. Even if the contaminants are potentially beneficial, it is still nearly all sodium salt.
To help potassium levels, one needs at least 50% to be potassium chloride.

FAR better to use potassium salt or light salt and NOT sea salt, and to feed/use no-salt-added Nori sheets for the trace minerals found in the sea. Including for cats - most love a bit of Nori.

Namaste,
Irene

REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

thanks again for your feedback. I have ***my questions or responses to your comments below.
but would like to share some feedback from this a.m.
Tiny showed no interest in coming downstairs this a.m. till I called him at 8:30 am.
He had come down in the night and used the litter box—mainly urine + very small stool.
which is not surprising since he has been eating so little. But it was there.
He immediately went to the door to go out. It is 5* here and he hadnt eaten and he is sick
So no outside for him today—at least not now.
Gave him 1 dose of the Phos and after 15” gave him about 6ml of the diluted beef from yesterday.
He took it readily from the syringe but then I tried to give him some in the bowl. He ate most of it.
Since there was not much left to give him I opened the jar of chicken and broth and gave it to him
undiluted to see if he would eat it. He took a couple of licks and that was it. So I am still worried
about him.
Should I continue with the Phos and syringe eating? Or wait and see if he can eat anymore of the
undiluted food. His stomach must be a bit shrunken by now and perhaps he cannot take in too
much at a time? Altho yesterday I fed him about 15ml in the last feeding offered.
The Vet faxed me his test results which I can share if you or anyone want to know what they are.
Tiny is low in sodium and chloride
Has evidence of having been exposed to toxoplasmosis but no pathological symptoms so he thinks
it a minimal problem at the moment.
There was blood in the urine so he thinks there is bladder infection. But he also said that is typical
with diabetes.
He is still expecting me to get the cat on insulin with regular testing. I am really not sure how to
proceed here.
The good news from the tests I think was that he was not in ketosis.
All info given most appreciated.
tanya
From: Irene de Villiers
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 3:21 AM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] sick cat follow up
That is enough to trigger diabetes.

****I have had him about 8 yrs now and never fed him kibble during this time.

but as stated, he roams outside and I have one neighbor who seems to think she

can do as she pleases.
The physical stress was then maintained by emotional stress:
But it is only twice a day so that's a big potential problem, whatever is fed.
(potential as he has outside acess)
** why is 2x/day feeding a problem? I have always been told that cats should not

be allowed to eat whenever.
Household water bowls need to be wide enough to accommodate whiskers (like outdoor puddles do) as cats cannot see close up and do not want their noses dunked while breathing. ALso need opaque water bowls as trasparent prevent sseeing the water surface. Second hand opaque punch bowls work well - so do toilets
** his water bowl is wide and opaque. it just never interested him. was always told that wet food provides enough water for cats

and this cat seems to evidence that.

Cooked is better. Raw grows bacteria and they double every 20 mins after slaughter, cuaing depletion of feline antioxidants to detoxify its suface toxins and bacterial by-products. Those (except salmonella) are destroyed in cooking. So cooked is better, and loses no nutrients.
Which has fruit and veg toxins.
They are loaded with fruit and veg.
One small berry is too much. The cat cannot metabolize it and is poisoned by it.
It also can explain the high urine pH that damages kidneys, it does not take much.
The correct fruit and veg is ZERO.
Otherwsie it is like good meat with poison sauce - does not take much poison to poison the cat.

**The vet thinks the 6.5 urine ph is related to the level of urea breakdown from a slight bladder infection
which he says makes the urine more alkaline.
I agree, but experience shows some cats do well on beef. They do not do well on pork except maybe liver.
Is it out of the fridge and cold when he does that?

**Not necessarily. I have seen him do that when the food is at room temperature very often.

I have also seen him eat cold food without a problem.
Oh an excellent sign.
Don't know. But some people often start a case with Sulph.
Just glad he is over the ketosis, it can be very hard to reverse in cats.
**Vet says tests showed he was not in ketosis. The tests were taken before

I gave him the Sulph.
If memory serves, Celtic sea salt (or any sea salt) is about 85% sodium salt. May as well be table salt.
I dunno why people do not see that sea salt is just sodium chloride with contaminants. Even if the contaminants are potentially beneficial, it is still nearly all sodium salt.
To help potassium levels, one needs at least 50% to be potassium chloride.

FAR better to use potassium salt or light salt and NOT sea salt, and to feed/use no-salt-added Nori sheets for the trace minerals found in the sea. Including for cats - most love a bit of Nori.

Okay. I was going to ask about kelp. I did get the lite salt for the potassium, but will feel more comfortable adding the nori kelp which I have in the house.
Namaste,
Irene

REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Dear Tamarque,

I shall try to answer without confusing who says what too much:-)
day—at least not now.

I would suggest that you modify the PHOS protocol, alternating Phos and meals, to get him back on track eating readily. I would use only diluted food for a day or two.
The vet says no ketosis, but the fact he had such difficulty eating means he either had a mild version or was troo close to it for comfort. Thus to make sure he can not slip back into it - which is erasy to do in diabetes - I'd play safe and use an alternating Phos and dilute animal protien food, with *frequent* feedings.
Stomachs do not shrink, the ketones just build up in the blood, and nausea is in proportion.
The Phos helps dissipate it.

Do please send them my way to (furryboots at pobox dot com)

A sign of stress. A pinch of lite salt mixed well into the watery food should help both the potassium and sodium adn chloride needed. The water is to make it easier to digest, as well as to ensure hydration. A 50/50 ratio works best..
A homeopathic remedy then is needed to strengthen his overall cell membrane structure to resist the parasite.
Toxo is no joke and can get into the brain and cause unpredictable personality misfires (including violence) and seizures. Toxo is a common problem in outdoor cats as it can be carried by any mammal. His feces will also likely be infective to you or other mammals. DO not let pregnant individuals near any litter trays y ou may have. Toxo causes birth defects. It is infective AFTER two days in the litter, so clean it DAILY to play safe, and also clean off any "clingons" daily.....
There are any other causes of blood in urine too, including parasite damage, kidney damage etc...
But bladder infection is an option to cause it, in small amounts.
I can not agree. Diabetes causes sugar in the urine, not blood in it.
Blood results from physical damage to the kidneys and/or bladder. Struvite crystals can cause that from a high pH but glucose is fully dissolved and cannot make physical damage to cells to the extent of making them bleed.

If it were my cat I would use the insulin initially IF and only IF the glucose is high enough to warrant it, such as over 200 on a high animal protein diet with suitable animal fat and very low carbs, fed often.

I'd be happy to make comments on the blood test results. They always tell a lot more than the vets say, iMO.
They can guide you in what to do.

Kibble is like any other food - it's value is dependent on what ingredients it has.
It has some major advantages:
* Cats need to eat as many times as possible every day (in the wild about 22 times).
* Cats need food to be available 24/7, to avoid pH swings, urinary problems and infectiosn and kidney damage leadign to kidney failure (the leading cause of medical death in domestic cats.)
* Cats require very fresh food, fresher than humans need, and kibble is a way to achieve that, 24/7.
* Kibble of high protein kind, does not have goo to stick to teeth and make gum trouble followed by stomatitis followed by cancer.

So, GOOD kibble fulfils all these feline requirements for basic health, and canned food or raw food, does not.
I would keep him indoors plus a catrun outdoors.
Some cat runs I have built for mine as examples (can be done for a hundred bucks or less usually, with a little ingenuity and petticoat mechanics)
This will prevent Feline leukaemia, toxoplasmosis, and a host of other dangers outside.
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/catrun.html
The biggest problem with the Internet is that people do not learn how to judge who says what there.
It helps to check the credentals and applicability of them to what is written, for person signing the website, ad standing behind it liability-wise (and to not read an unsigned one).
Vets are NOT trained in feline nutrition or feline metabolism. So that disqualifies them from having opinions.
It takes someone actually involved in feline nutrition research, or who has studied it, or else the only website worth a look is one reporting feline nutrition formal research papers in original wording of said paper. And even then one needs to know how to assess research validitiy -and again - we have not generally been taught how.
I have. I consider it one of the most valuable things I ever learned at university. I wish everyone learned it. We all need it.

I started Catwell email group specifically to provide verified good research information instead of vet or internet hype on cats and what that tells us. I have no benefit from this, no bias as vets and manufacturers and sales types do - just the enjoyment of the good feedback. It is just that I have studied how cats work internally all my life, and have followed the meagre research. Most of the new research is published in copyright books produced from the papers presented at the Feline and Canine Nutrition Symposiums, starting 1998 (before that is too out of date). They publish a few copies and bury it under copyright so as to hide the truth and continue manuufacturing garbage under the guise of "veterinary diet" or scietific food or holistic food or Pitcairn recipes or whatever.

Some rules for cats:
Cats are not small humans. Human food is bad for cats.
Cats are not small lions. Lion food is bad for cats.
Cats are not dogs. Dogfood is bad for cats.
Cats are specially designed to be efficient solo predators. SOLO is relevant., It means they have to travel extra-light. Lightweight liver, lightweight blood supply, lightweight gut, you name it.
Cats can manage the easiest-to-digest food only, a very little at a time as they have a fast protein metabolism needing NEW protein every hour or two.
If they do not get it, they break down body protein between meals to supply it and keep going till they are fed. But each such episode results in kidney damage from the protein breakdown.
The lightweight equipment and small blood supply they have with small liver, small intestine, etc is designed only for animal protein and animal fat - the easiest nutrients to digest.
Feline gut bacteria are designed to supply what others get from plants, and they make their own Vit C.
Their meat needs to be freshkill to have enough taurine - it disappears in storage.
It also needs to be devoid of bacterial surface products which take 20 ins to grow after slaughter.

So rule one for indoor cats is to feed high animal protien and animal fat to be available 24/7 to eat at will.
Eassiest way to do it is high quality kibble.
It is fine to add meat meals here and there, but kibble is needed to provide 24/7 food to keep kidneys healthy.
I recommend Redmoonpetfood's Turkey and Salmon for your kitty.
It has minimal rice, as starch is needed to glue kibble together, and rice is best utilized by cats (of the grains) and is neutral as regards pH. (Potato, peas, etc are toxic AND damaging to kidneys and high pH).

He WILL need fresh daily water to hydrate kibble.

Sometimes. Depends on constitutional type. A Sulphur ICT will always need more water:-)

Canned food is goo with gums in it that prevent absorption of nutrients, and that put gooey junk on the teeteh for bacteria to enjoy.

There is only one bacterium that can turn urine alkaline. It is very rarely involved in a bladder infection in cats and that is usually in older female cats. It has urease activity which takes urea and turns it into ammonia, irritating bladder walls and making urine alkaline. Testing for it is tricky adn yor cat's pH is not as high as I would expect if that was happening here.

Maybe he is thinking whether he can digest that particular food.??
NOT tested in cats.
Nori has been used a lot with no adverse effect so far.
There is no scientific study yet in cats for it.

But be sure NOT to feed other greens like spirulina; they are VERY toxic.

Namaste,
Irene

REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Okay--will scan in the test results and send them to as requested.

Your info is good advice on how to proceed.

His blood sugar is 365 as of the test on Saturday.
I need to pick up his prescription for the insulin & equipment.
He spoke of using a product called glygen?? (not sure I got the name
correct).

He also recommended hydration. Do you think that is necessary at this
point?

tanya

Much too high so I like the insulin Rx here - suggest you plan to wean off as he improves. You need a way to test it, so you know when glucose drops and do not overdose insulin
A human glucose meter that uses the smallest drop is Freestyle Lite. WAlgreens price is usually good. Look for deals where you get the meter free when you buy test strips. Matching test trips are necessary and are cheaper at ebay.

The small drop size matters as you do not want hematomas that cats make easily.

Glygen is a sulfonylurea drug. This is a second generation experimental version.
(Are you seeing red flags yet?)
Sulfonylureas are designed to whip the poor damaged pancreas into producing insulin, much like flogging a dead horse, IMO and not what I would use, due to long term effects. It can kill the already damaged pancreas IMO. In fact it is not my opinion, it is what research shows.
The active ingredient is GLipizide. ANy HUMAN with an iota of knowledge will no longer go near it.
Cats have less toxin handling capacity....

It is of course your decision, as it is prescribed by your vet.
But make an informed one.
http://diabetes.emedtv.com/glipizide/da ... izide.html

I am not in a position to judge.
It can be useful if there is edema, as more fluid is needed to flush edema however odd that sounds. Diabetes can cause edema.
It can be useful if he is not eating well, to ensure hydration.
It can be useful if his kidneys are already compromised - signs of this in lab work are for example:
*High blood amylase level
High blood Creatinine
High blood BUN
Protein in the urine (any albumin or microalbumin in the urine)

* Amylase may seem an odd thing to indicate kidney damage
(it indicates pancreas damage in humans not in cats)
but cats have a unique metabolism:

The way they excrete globulins (very large molecule to begin with) is to bind them with amylase, making a relatively giant molecule. Then they excrete the combined product via the kidneys. If the kidneys are damaged they can not process the giant molecules and these accumulate in the body, giving a (false) high amylase reading as the mechanism of the test for amylase reads the total volume of the giant molecules, only a small amount of which is actually amylase. It is the globulins that have the significant size to falsaify the reading.
The globulin readaing in this case will also be false and will read too low, as it will miss all the bound globulins attached to amylase. It is a functiom of the mechanism of these tests, to give such readings.
So high amylase does NOT mean pancreatitis in cats.
It means kidney disease.
It can be a good indicator a bit before creatinine is compromised.
Creatinine only goes higher than normal after 75% of the kidneys are destroyed.

For your cat, I would ASSUME kidney damage and feed as for kidney damage and for fiabetes - both of which need much the same diet. Plus Vit E and fish oil in high amounts to heal kidneys and keep the pressure inside down as that causes damage.

Kidney damaged cats all benefit from regular hydration.

If you want to learn about diabetes, there is a book for humans that is excellent for an overview of the disewe, how it works in general and the drugs for itl See "Dr Bernsten's diabetes solution". Library may have it.
It also explains why HIGH animal protein, and not low or plant protein, heals kidneys.
(THe stories about low protein are based on Hills science diet research in 1991 which fed PLANT protein to cats with 40% fat - the more of this junk they fed, the worse the kidneys got. Gee surprise. They stupidly (or greedily for money?) concluded that the more protein fed, the more kidney damage occurs.
Dr Delmar Finco left Hills in disgust, redid the research using animal protein and moderate fat and in groups with protein range of 18% to 56% (56 being typical of wild food).
The cats with 56% ANIMAL protein got improved function, the rest did not.
Despite this - human doctors still suggest low plant protein for damaged kidneys!!!!
Vets too. Hills prescription diet for kidney disease is based on their 1991 research. Others are no better.
Just so you know.

Namaste,
Irene

REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Before drugs and insulin are used, can cats, dogs,... take herbals for diabetes that humans do?
I've had some very recent interesting positive results with this herbal blend, Pancreas, created by a herbalist Dr. Christopher.
The main ingredient in it I've never taken before, is cedar berry which he claims heals damage done when the pancreas over or underproduces bicarbonate of soda, damaging the digestive tract.
http://www.herballegacy.com/Pancreas.html
Susan

Did you see the protocol Irene sent several days ago?
She has also been adamant about no fruits for cats.
t
From: healthyinfo6@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 6:50 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] sick cat follow up

Before drugs and insulin are used, can cats, dogs,... take herbals for diabetes that humans do?
I've had some very recent interesting positive results with this herbal blend, Pancreas, created by a herbalist Dr. Christopher.
The main ingredient in it I've never taken before, is cedar berry which he claims heals damage done when the pancreas over or underproduces bicarbonate of soda, damaging the digestive tract.
http://www.herballegacy.com/Pancreas.html
Susan

Unfortunately not, especially not cats. They lack the liver enzymes to process herbs, fruit, veg or plants in general. I wold not risk it in dogs either, their abilities with plants are minimally better thn cats.
Not with cats.
He describes it for humans.
For cats one must seek animal based products for anything expected to be digested.

Feline diabetes responds very well to diet and remedy.

Namaste,
Irene

REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."