Well [gulp] I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but that's not how I understand it works. Can I respectfuilly ask where you get that information?
John
In a message dated 9/27/2013 12:14:10 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, furryboots@icehouse.net writes:
EXTRAORDINARY MEDICINE
John Benneth, Homeopath
PG Hom - London (Hons.)
http://johnbenneth.com
SKYPE: John Benneth (Portland, Oregon)
503- 819 - 7777 (USA)
Love people, expect them to love you back.
Clathrates
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Clathrates
Is that a Big Gulp, a la 7/11 ?:-)
If you mean me, it's FURRY boots not feathery boots:-)
You can.
I got it by hard work (weird thing that) spending days lookng for NEW clathrate research on line, and writing to the people doing the research, and asking them questions. I need it for my own research which I plan to publish as soon as I am ready. I'm following a quite different angle from the one to do with homeopathy. (I'm slow for health reasons so it may be a while.)
Some leads to follow on this:
* Check out work by Liam Jacobsen, Waldemar Hujo and Valeria Molinero at Utah Universty Dept of Chemistry.
Quote in 2012 from Molinero (she's from Brazil I think originally) :
"We use molecular dynamics simulations with efficient coarse-grained models to investigate the stability and mechanisms of nucleation and growth of clathrate hydrates of guests with a wide range of sizes and hydrophilicity. The main questions we address are what are the structures of the clathrate nuclei and what are the mechanisms of their formation from two-phase fluid systems and from ice."
They show a progression from
1 dissolved guest -
2 reversibly to blob -
3 one way to amorphous clathrate (no guests, but they are floating around in the area) -
4 one way to crystalline clathrate, some with guests.
"Blobs" seems to have become a technical term in clathrate research
I see it in many places.
In 2012 more research at Utah shows transformations occur between the two usual clathrate structures -(referred to as S-I and S-II)- and they have an intermediate phase which they feel may help explain the matter of amorphous clathrates without guests as a precursor step to those that are fully crystalized when they can acquire guests.
Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
If you mean me, it's FURRY boots not feathery boots:-)
You can.
I got it by hard work (weird thing that) spending days lookng for NEW clathrate research on line, and writing to the people doing the research, and asking them questions. I need it for my own research which I plan to publish as soon as I am ready. I'm following a quite different angle from the one to do with homeopathy. (I'm slow for health reasons so it may be a while.)
Some leads to follow on this:
* Check out work by Liam Jacobsen, Waldemar Hujo and Valeria Molinero at Utah Universty Dept of Chemistry.
Quote in 2012 from Molinero (she's from Brazil I think originally) :
"We use molecular dynamics simulations with efficient coarse-grained models to investigate the stability and mechanisms of nucleation and growth of clathrate hydrates of guests with a wide range of sizes and hydrophilicity. The main questions we address are what are the structures of the clathrate nuclei and what are the mechanisms of their formation from two-phase fluid systems and from ice."
They show a progression from
1 dissolved guest -
2 reversibly to blob -
3 one way to amorphous clathrate (no guests, but they are floating around in the area) -
4 one way to crystalline clathrate, some with guests.
"Blobs" seems to have become a technical term in clathrate research
I see it in many places.In 2012 more research at Utah shows transformations occur between the two usual clathrate structures -(referred to as S-I and S-II)- and they have an intermediate phase which they feel may help explain the matter of amorphous clathrates without guests as a precursor step to those that are fully crystalized when they can acquire guests.
Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
John R. Benneth
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:00 pm
Re: Clathrates
It sounds like in your model the clathrate forms first and then opens up and engulfs the guest solute. Your Univ of Utah study makes no mention of this.
They imply more classical lines, the difference is that clathrate GROW around the guest molecules which they say "concentrate in blobs as amorphous clusters involving multiple guest molecules in water-mediated configurations."
They write, "these blobs are in dynamic equilibrium with the dilute solution and give birth to the clathrate cages that eventually transform it into an amorphous clathrate nucleus."
In other words, as I read it, you're saying the clathrate grows first and then ingests the solute like a phagocyte. That isn't what they the post docs at the Univ of Utah are saying, nor is it what happens . . in my understanding of it.
The 2010 talk at the Cavendish Lab "The Supramolecular Chemistry of the Homeopathic Remedy" asserts that the H2O molecules enter into the crystalline matrix of the guest solute and attach themselves to it relative to the charge they find there, and then by molecular self assembly chain out into the cybotactic field of the outer hydrate shell.
The cybotactic field is the region around a solute molecule, also called the cosphere, in which the solvent molecules are more ordered. This is the space where H2O molecules are in a "nematic mesophase." Nematic means that the molecules in the liquid crystal are oriented in parallel but not arranged in well-defined planes as they are in "smectic" arrays.
In other simpler words, the presence of a particle in water will affect the way water molecules structure around it.
You can see a graphic presentation of this . . a picture of how a clathrate forms . . in a power point presentation that I put together under the auspices of Professor Brian Josephson for the Cavendish talk.
You can download the power point at www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/beyond_molecule/bm.ppt
The mere recognized existence of the clathrate by conventional science refutes the objection by homeopathy bashing pseudoscientists, who arrogantly assert, that because water can't structure at liquid temperatures, it can't have a "memory." This alone should be a milestone revelation for science, medicine and specifically, homeopathy, for it yields yet another example of scientific denial in the service of medical syndicalism.
But this example is still limited, because it only addresses how a clathrate forms in the first phase of dilution, in the presence of particulate. We still need to explain how structuring continues past the molecular phase into the supramolecular phase, "beyond the molecule."
In a message dated 9/27/2013 10:16:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, furryboots@icehouse.net writes:
EXTRAORDINARY MEDICINE
John Benneth, Homeopath
PG Hom - London (Hons.)
http://johnbenneth.com
SKYPE: John Benneth (Portland, Oregon)
503- 819 - 7777 (USA)
Love people, expect them to love you back.
They imply more classical lines, the difference is that clathrate GROW around the guest molecules which they say "concentrate in blobs as amorphous clusters involving multiple guest molecules in water-mediated configurations."
They write, "these blobs are in dynamic equilibrium with the dilute solution and give birth to the clathrate cages that eventually transform it into an amorphous clathrate nucleus."
In other words, as I read it, you're saying the clathrate grows first and then ingests the solute like a phagocyte. That isn't what they the post docs at the Univ of Utah are saying, nor is it what happens . . in my understanding of it.
The 2010 talk at the Cavendish Lab "The Supramolecular Chemistry of the Homeopathic Remedy" asserts that the H2O molecules enter into the crystalline matrix of the guest solute and attach themselves to it relative to the charge they find there, and then by molecular self assembly chain out into the cybotactic field of the outer hydrate shell.
The cybotactic field is the region around a solute molecule, also called the cosphere, in which the solvent molecules are more ordered. This is the space where H2O molecules are in a "nematic mesophase." Nematic means that the molecules in the liquid crystal are oriented in parallel but not arranged in well-defined planes as they are in "smectic" arrays.
In other simpler words, the presence of a particle in water will affect the way water molecules structure around it.
You can see a graphic presentation of this . . a picture of how a clathrate forms . . in a power point presentation that I put together under the auspices of Professor Brian Josephson for the Cavendish talk.
You can download the power point at www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/beyond_molecule/bm.ppt
The mere recognized existence of the clathrate by conventional science refutes the objection by homeopathy bashing pseudoscientists, who arrogantly assert, that because water can't structure at liquid temperatures, it can't have a "memory." This alone should be a milestone revelation for science, medicine and specifically, homeopathy, for it yields yet another example of scientific denial in the service of medical syndicalism.
But this example is still limited, because it only addresses how a clathrate forms in the first phase of dilution, in the presence of particulate. We still need to explain how structuring continues past the molecular phase into the supramolecular phase, "beyond the molecule."
In a message dated 9/27/2013 10:16:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, furryboots@icehouse.net writes:
EXTRAORDINARY MEDICINE
John Benneth, Homeopath
PG Hom - London (Hons.)
http://johnbenneth.com
SKYPE: John Benneth (Portland, Oregon)
503- 819 - 7777 (USA)
Love people, expect them to love you back.
-
Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: Clathrates
John
The powerpoint link does not work.
t
From: jrbenneth@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 5:45 AM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Clathrates
It sounds like in your model the clathrate forms first and then opens up and engulfs the guest solute. Your Univ of Utah study makes no mention of this.
They imply more classical lines, the difference is that clathrate GROW around the guest molecules which they say "concentrate in blobs as amorphous clusters involving multiple guest molecules in water-mediated configurations."
They write, "these blobs are in dynamic equilibrium with the dilute solution and give birth to the clathrate cages that eventually transform it into an amorphous clathrate nucleus."
In other words, as I read it, you're saying the clathrate grows first and then ingests the solute like a phagocyte. That isn't what they the post docs at the Univ of Utah are saying, nor is it what happens . . in my understanding of it.
The 2010 talk at the Cavendish Lab "The Supramolecular Chemistry of the Homeopathic Remedy" asserts that the H2O molecules enter into the crystalline matrix of the guest solute and attach themselves to it relative to the charge they find there, and then by molecular self assembly chain out into the cybotactic field of the outer hydrate shell.
The cybotactic field is the region around a solute molecule, also called the cosphere, in which the solvent molecules are more ordered. This is the space where H2O molecules are in a "nematic mesophase." Nematic means that the molecules in the liquid crystal are oriented in parallel but not arranged in well-defined planes as they are in "smectic" arrays.
In other simpler words, the presence of a particle in water will affect the way water molecules structure around it.
You can see a graphic presentation of this . . a picture of how a clathrate forms . . in a power point presentation that I put together under the auspices of Professor Brian Josephson for the Cavendish talk.
You can download the power point at www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/beyond_molecule/bm.ppt
The mere recognized existence of the clathrate by conventional science refutes the objection by homeopathy bashing pseudoscientists, who arrogantly assert, that because water can't structure at liquid temperatures, it can't have a "memory." This alone should be a milestone revelation for science, medicine and specifically, homeopathy, for it yields yet another example of scientific denial in the service of medical syndicalism.
But this example is still limited, because it only addresses how a clathrate forms in the first phase of dilution, in the presence of particulate. We still need to explain how structuring continues past the molecular phase into the supramolecular phase, "beyond the molecule."
In a message dated 9/27/2013 10:16:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, furryboots@icehouse.net writes:
EXTRAORDINARY MEDICINE
John Benneth, Homeopath
PG Hom - London (Hons.)
http://johnbenneth.com
SKYPE: John Benneth (Portland, Oregon)
503- 819 - 7777 (USA)
Love people, expect them to love you back.
The powerpoint link does not work.
t
From: jrbenneth@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 5:45 AM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Clathrates
It sounds like in your model the clathrate forms first and then opens up and engulfs the guest solute. Your Univ of Utah study makes no mention of this.
They imply more classical lines, the difference is that clathrate GROW around the guest molecules which they say "concentrate in blobs as amorphous clusters involving multiple guest molecules in water-mediated configurations."
They write, "these blobs are in dynamic equilibrium with the dilute solution and give birth to the clathrate cages that eventually transform it into an amorphous clathrate nucleus."
In other words, as I read it, you're saying the clathrate grows first and then ingests the solute like a phagocyte. That isn't what they the post docs at the Univ of Utah are saying, nor is it what happens . . in my understanding of it.
The 2010 talk at the Cavendish Lab "The Supramolecular Chemistry of the Homeopathic Remedy" asserts that the H2O molecules enter into the crystalline matrix of the guest solute and attach themselves to it relative to the charge they find there, and then by molecular self assembly chain out into the cybotactic field of the outer hydrate shell.
The cybotactic field is the region around a solute molecule, also called the cosphere, in which the solvent molecules are more ordered. This is the space where H2O molecules are in a "nematic mesophase." Nematic means that the molecules in the liquid crystal are oriented in parallel but not arranged in well-defined planes as they are in "smectic" arrays.
In other simpler words, the presence of a particle in water will affect the way water molecules structure around it.
You can see a graphic presentation of this . . a picture of how a clathrate forms . . in a power point presentation that I put together under the auspices of Professor Brian Josephson for the Cavendish talk.
You can download the power point at www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/beyond_molecule/bm.ppt
The mere recognized existence of the clathrate by conventional science refutes the objection by homeopathy bashing pseudoscientists, who arrogantly assert, that because water can't structure at liquid temperatures, it can't have a "memory." This alone should be a milestone revelation for science, medicine and specifically, homeopathy, for it yields yet another example of scientific denial in the service of medical syndicalism.
But this example is still limited, because it only addresses how a clathrate forms in the first phase of dilution, in the presence of particulate. We still need to explain how structuring continues past the molecular phase into the supramolecular phase, "beyond the molecule."
In a message dated 9/27/2013 10:16:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, furryboots@icehouse.net writes:
EXTRAORDINARY MEDICINE
John Benneth, Homeopath
PG Hom - London (Hons.)
http://johnbenneth.com
SKYPE: John Benneth (Portland, Oregon)
503- 819 - 7777 (USA)
Love people, expect them to love you back.
-
Lynn Cremona
- Posts: 633
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:00 pm
-
Dana Ullman, MPH
- Posts: 411
- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:00 pm
Re: Clathrates
Dear Irene,
Because you say that you are presently writing something about how homeopathic medicines may work, you might also benefit from knowing about the following references (I personally have high regard for the writing of Iris Bell, MD, PhD, and the new research and writing of Chikramane and his colleagues is also quite compelling):
Bell IR, Koithan M. A model for homeopathic remedy effects: low dose nanoparticles, allostatic cross-adaptation, and time-dependent sensitization in a complex adaptive system. BMC Complement Altern Med. 2012 Oct 22;12(1):191.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pd ... 12-191.pdf (this is an exceptional review of the basic sciences literature that explains how homeopathic medicines may work)
Chikramane PS, Kalita D, Suresh AK, Kane SG, Bellare JR. Why Extreme Dilutions Reach Non-zero Asymptotes: A Nanoparticulate Hypothesis Based on Froth Flotation.
Langmuir. 2012 Nov 1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23083226
Eskinazi, D., Homeopathy Re-revisited: Is Homeopathy Compatible with Biomedical Observations? Archives in Internal Medicine, 159, Sept 27, 1999:1981-7.
--Dana Ullman, MPH, CCH
www.homeopathic.com
People who want access to what may be the most comprehensive and up-to-date body of information on clinical research in homeopathy that has been published in peer-review journals, see my ebook entitled "Evidence Based Homeopathic Family Medicine" at:
https://www.homeopathic.com/cms-global/ ... ductId=227
Because you say that you are presently writing something about how homeopathic medicines may work, you might also benefit from knowing about the following references (I personally have high regard for the writing of Iris Bell, MD, PhD, and the new research and writing of Chikramane and his colleagues is also quite compelling):
Bell IR, Koithan M. A model for homeopathic remedy effects: low dose nanoparticles, allostatic cross-adaptation, and time-dependent sensitization in a complex adaptive system. BMC Complement Altern Med. 2012 Oct 22;12(1):191.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pd ... 12-191.pdf (this is an exceptional review of the basic sciences literature that explains how homeopathic medicines may work)
Chikramane PS, Kalita D, Suresh AK, Kane SG, Bellare JR. Why Extreme Dilutions Reach Non-zero Asymptotes: A Nanoparticulate Hypothesis Based on Froth Flotation.
Langmuir. 2012 Nov 1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23083226
Eskinazi, D., Homeopathy Re-revisited: Is Homeopathy Compatible with Biomedical Observations? Archives in Internal Medicine, 159, Sept 27, 1999:1981-7.
--Dana Ullman, MPH, CCH
www.homeopathic.com
People who want access to what may be the most comprehensive and up-to-date body of information on clinical research in homeopathy that has been published in peer-review journals, see my ebook entitled "Evidence Based Homeopathic Family Medicine" at:
https://www.homeopathic.com/cms-global/ ... ductId=227
-
Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: Clathrates
Thanks for trying but this link doesn’t work either.
What kind of program file is it?
t
From: Lynn Cremona
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 10:54 AM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Clathrates
Try
http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/beyond_molecule/
--
Imagine Peace
http://www.homeopathicsolutions.blogspot.com/
What kind of program file is it?
t
From: Lynn Cremona
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 10:54 AM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Clathrates
Try
http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/beyond_molecule/
--
Imagine Peace
http://www.homeopathicsolutions.blogspot.com/
-
Hennie Duits
- Posts: 494
- Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 10:00 pm
Re: Clathrates
Copy the link, paste it in browser address, clip off anything after ptt
Op 28-9-2013 13:00, tamarque schreef:
Op 28-9-2013 13:00, tamarque schreef:
-
Hennie Duits
- Posts: 494
- Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 10:00 pm
-
Lynn Cremona
- Posts: 633
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:00 pm
Re: Clathrates
it is a MS PowerPoint document
if you paste http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/beyond_molecule/
in your browser's address box
you should see the following
Index of /~bdj10/beyond_molecule
* Parent Directory
* bm.pdf
* bm.ppt
* bm.pptx
click on the first link (pdf) and save to your desktop, then open it with Adobe Acrobat
or
click on the second link (ppt) save to your desktop and open with MS Powerpoint
________________________________
--
Imagine Peace
http://www.homeopathicsolutions.blogspot.com/
if you paste http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/beyond_molecule/
in your browser's address box
you should see the following
Index of /~bdj10/beyond_molecule
* Parent Directory
* bm.pdf
* bm.ppt
* bm.pptx
click on the first link (pdf) and save to your desktop, then open it with Adobe Acrobat
or
click on the second link (ppt) save to your desktop and open with MS Powerpoint
________________________________
--
Imagine Peace
http://www.homeopathicsolutions.blogspot.com/