Ginny
have you used the 30c potency? all the cases I have read are with either tincture or very low potency (3x-6c)
t
From: ginny wilken
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 9:49 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Crategus oxy
I'll add my little anecdotal evidence: I used to be an endurance athlete, trained to the max cardiologically. I now have chronic muscle weakness along with other issues, and have been under homeopathic treatment for some years. Due to the muscular disability, my heart rate and capacity had dropped drastically, and last year I came close to a cardiac event upon having to run 30 yards or so in an emergency. I started using crataegus in tincture, a dropperful twice daily - about 20 drops - and almost immediately got great relief and very much improved heart response. Tachy- and bradycardiac episodes cleared up, and exercise tolerance improved - I can now walk up hills briskly without stopping. I continue to use the hawthorn daily, along with my current chronic remedy. My homeopath knows, and has voiced no concern about the crataegus. I also keep a vial of 30c pellets in my travel kit.
It's worth noting, perhaps, that I have never had any diagnosis of traditional heart disease, and have excellent lipid and BP numbers.
Just to add a data point.
ginny
All stunts performed without a net!
Crategus oxy
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Ginny Wilken
- Posts: 324
- Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:00 pm
Re: Crategus oxy
No, I have not; I keep it for first aid use, but haven't needed it. I wouldn't hesitate to use it on myself, someone else, or for a dog, in an emergency. My partner is 84, and there are a lot of other older folks hereabouts.
ginny
All stunts performed without a net!
ginny
All stunts performed without a net!
Re: Crategus oxy
I am looking for a book:
Precautions in Homeopathic Remedies by Dr. Subhash Chandra Gupta
It is out of stock/out of print all over the globe including Amazon
The book may be hiding in some software.
Pls let me know if you happen to locate it in some hiding.
Precautions in Homeopathic Remedies by Dr. Subhash Chandra Gupta
It is out of stock/out of print all over the globe including Amazon
The book may be hiding in some software.
Pls let me know if you happen to locate it in some hiding.
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Healthseeker
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:00 pm
Re: Crategus oxy
Looks like these people have it: http://www.alibris.com/Precautions-in-H ... k/14172564
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Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Crategus oxy
It is represented in Boericke, Phatak and others, so I assume it was proved.
It is represented i Radar's SYnthesis software with references to each rubric as to who provided it.
It was a while back, and I do not remember.
I know you can get it in various potencies from Simillimum in NZ. (6C, 30, 200C, 1M, at least)
Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
It is represented i Radar's SYnthesis software with references to each rubric as to who provided it.
It was a while back, and I do not remember.
I know you can get it in various potencies from Simillimum in NZ. (6C, 30, 200C, 1M, at least)
Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Crategus oxy
There is a small but important difference to note:
It will cure something SIMILAR - not something identical....hence the "Law of Similars" is invoked as occurs naturally - and not the "law of identicals".
The Law of SImilars is behind ALL homeopathic events - the ones that actually "work".
This Law was observed in 400BC ny Hppocrates - it is a law of nature, not something invented by man.
It aplies to all healing effects of homeopathy whether the substance is potentized or not.
The LAw of Similars was observed in nature by many others since then, as a natural phenomenon where a SIMILAR substance to the one causing disease, can cure the disease.
Eg cowpox to cure smallpox - but smallpox will NOT cure smallpox as it is not "similar" but identical.
Eg TB vaccine gives Leprosy immunity but has no effect against TB (they are two very SIMILAR bacteria in the same bacterial family)
Potency is not what determines homeopathicity.
It only determines what strength of symptoms can be overcome.
SO herb tinctures are essentially zero potency homeopathic remedies. The potential disadvantages are that the herbs may have chemical side effects and may not be powerful enough to help a serious case of whatever is being addressed, where a potentized version will lack the side effects and will have increased ENERGY to heal..
When Hahnemann got on the scene HE figured that potentizing the remedy excluded the chemical dangers of it
(by diluting then out) AND increased the medicinal activity (provided succussion was used between dilutions).
SO Hahnemann did not invent homeopathy - though he coined the name and invented the system or potentizing to get greater effect with lesser side effects.
The Law of SImilars by which homeopathy actually works, is a law of nature - not a law of man - COPIED and USED by man, when used by homeopaths.
Yes but never with UN-potentized mercury due to the toxic effects of the material substance.
We use only the potentized version which has increased ENERGY of hesaling and LACKS the toxicicity of the material substance.
Homeopathy is the use of ENERGY of a substance that can cause SIMILAR symptoms to the ones seen in the individual getting the remedy.
Whether the energy is accompanied by a physical substance as well, or not, is a separate issue.
In the case of herbs, some are nutritional and so the material substance that comes wihth the energy at zero potency, can be beneficial.
In the case of snake poison, the toxin is NOT beneficial, only its energy is beneficial, so we ONLY use potentized forms - the energy - minus the physical material.
They are not used for the opposite of what they cause, but to CAUSE those "proving symptoms" often needs HUGE amounts of the herb as it is a generally innocuous substance.
It would if you took it by the bucketful.
AS a herb, without potentizing, it IS being used homeopathically.
If potentized the energy for healing increases, the herb material is diluted out, and you can then also use it in animals for which hawthorn itself would be toxic (like cats).
Compare to mercury: In mercury SO little is needed of the material substance to cause a toxic proving, that you just potentize it to use it as a safe energy remedy.
But Hawthorn would need some huge amount to cause symptoms at material level, so it is safe EVEN at low potency, unlike Merc.
Because its toxicity level is so low...unlike say, snake poison or mercury.
You are looking at the beneficial energy effect of Hawthorn - not at its toxic effect needed to "prove" the DEVELOPMENT of NEW SYMPTOMS from an EXCESS of Hawthorn.
The proving symptoms are always the ones from EXCESS of the original substance.
Take this example using UN-potentized water as a homeopathic remedy for a MILD situation:
(It has to be a mild one or you would need potentized water).
Let's say you burnt your finger lifting the lid of a steaming pot.
You can cure it with water - similar to steam, as follows:
Put the burnt finger under running water.
Use it at a temperature that is comfortable (low temperature usually, maybe cold water.
Gradually increase the water temperature, do not go faster than comfortable for the finger, leaving your finger in the running water, at a rate that is comfortable (too fast is like an aggravation and will hurt). WHen the water is at a temperature like hot bath water, take out the finger and it will be healed....no blisters, no pain.
It is a homeopathic effect - hot water similar to hot steam - to cure the burn - did not need any potentizing.
It's just a simple demonstration of the Law of Similars so often observed by various wise men over the centuries.
Hope this helps.
Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
It will cure something SIMILAR - not something identical....hence the "Law of Similars" is invoked as occurs naturally - and not the "law of identicals".
The Law of SImilars is behind ALL homeopathic events - the ones that actually "work".
This Law was observed in 400BC ny Hppocrates - it is a law of nature, not something invented by man.
It aplies to all healing effects of homeopathy whether the substance is potentized or not.
The LAw of Similars was observed in nature by many others since then, as a natural phenomenon where a SIMILAR substance to the one causing disease, can cure the disease.
Eg cowpox to cure smallpox - but smallpox will NOT cure smallpox as it is not "similar" but identical.
Eg TB vaccine gives Leprosy immunity but has no effect against TB (they are two very SIMILAR bacteria in the same bacterial family)
Potency is not what determines homeopathicity.
It only determines what strength of symptoms can be overcome.
SO herb tinctures are essentially zero potency homeopathic remedies. The potential disadvantages are that the herbs may have chemical side effects and may not be powerful enough to help a serious case of whatever is being addressed, where a potentized version will lack the side effects and will have increased ENERGY to heal..
When Hahnemann got on the scene HE figured that potentizing the remedy excluded the chemical dangers of it
(by diluting then out) AND increased the medicinal activity (provided succussion was used between dilutions).
SO Hahnemann did not invent homeopathy - though he coined the name and invented the system or potentizing to get greater effect with lesser side effects.
The Law of SImilars by which homeopathy actually works, is a law of nature - not a law of man - COPIED and USED by man, when used by homeopaths.
Yes but never with UN-potentized mercury due to the toxic effects of the material substance.
We use only the potentized version which has increased ENERGY of hesaling and LACKS the toxicicity of the material substance.
Homeopathy is the use of ENERGY of a substance that can cause SIMILAR symptoms to the ones seen in the individual getting the remedy.
Whether the energy is accompanied by a physical substance as well, or not, is a separate issue.
In the case of herbs, some are nutritional and so the material substance that comes wihth the energy at zero potency, can be beneficial.
In the case of snake poison, the toxin is NOT beneficial, only its energy is beneficial, so we ONLY use potentized forms - the energy - minus the physical material.
They are not used for the opposite of what they cause, but to CAUSE those "proving symptoms" often needs HUGE amounts of the herb as it is a generally innocuous substance.
It would if you took it by the bucketful.
AS a herb, without potentizing, it IS being used homeopathically.
If potentized the energy for healing increases, the herb material is diluted out, and you can then also use it in animals for which hawthorn itself would be toxic (like cats).
Compare to mercury: In mercury SO little is needed of the material substance to cause a toxic proving, that you just potentize it to use it as a safe energy remedy.
But Hawthorn would need some huge amount to cause symptoms at material level, so it is safe EVEN at low potency, unlike Merc.
Because its toxicity level is so low...unlike say, snake poison or mercury.
You are looking at the beneficial energy effect of Hawthorn - not at its toxic effect needed to "prove" the DEVELOPMENT of NEW SYMPTOMS from an EXCESS of Hawthorn.
The proving symptoms are always the ones from EXCESS of the original substance.
Take this example using UN-potentized water as a homeopathic remedy for a MILD situation:
(It has to be a mild one or you would need potentized water).
Let's say you burnt your finger lifting the lid of a steaming pot.
You can cure it with water - similar to steam, as follows:
Put the burnt finger under running water.
Use it at a temperature that is comfortable (low temperature usually, maybe cold water.
Gradually increase the water temperature, do not go faster than comfortable for the finger, leaving your finger in the running water, at a rate that is comfortable (too fast is like an aggravation and will hurt). WHen the water is at a temperature like hot bath water, take out the finger and it will be healed....no blisters, no pain.
It is a homeopathic effect - hot water similar to hot steam - to cure the burn - did not need any potentizing.
It's just a simple demonstration of the Law of Similars so often observed by various wise men over the centuries.
Hope this helps.
Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
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Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: Crategus oxy
thanx ginny.
were you saying your heart weakness was due to your extreme physical exertion, or
was it ‘’coincidence” that you developed heart muscular weakness.
t
From: ginny wilken
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 10:16 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Crategus oxy
No, I have not; I keep it for first aid use, but haven't needed it. I wouldn't hesitate to use it on myself, someone else, or for a dog, in an emergency. My partner is 84, and there are a lot of other older folks hereabouts.
ginny
All stunts performed without a net!
were you saying your heart weakness was due to your extreme physical exertion, or
was it ‘’coincidence” that you developed heart muscular weakness.
t
From: ginny wilken
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 10:16 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Crategus oxy
No, I have not; I keep it for first aid use, but haven't needed it. I wouldn't hesitate to use it on myself, someone else, or for a dog, in an emergency. My partner is 84, and there are a lot of other older folks hereabouts.
ginny
All stunts performed without a net!
-
Athanasios Razis
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: Crategus oxy
Actually the symptoms have to be identical to what the substance is causing. The closer the remedy symptomatology to the condition symptomatology the better the results. Otherwise it will only partially work if at all. If you have oedema it has to be identical to the proving of the edema of the bee poison in order to use Apis. If it is similar then you need a different remedy. The law of identical has nothing to do with this. When homeopaths used to argues about that was about using the substance that caused the symptoms to treat poisoning from the same substance i.e. using mercury to treat mercury poisoning. Now this is not something i have strong feelings about but this is the law of identicals. It refers to the substance and not the symptoms. You actually mention it yourself further down with the smallpox example.
The theory bellow about potentiating the "good" energy of something is pure speculation. The only person claiming to be doing that, "potentiating a substances positive energies", was Dr. Edward Bach with his flower remedies. As Hanheman he dedicated his life to that and in his writings he even makes a clear distinction between homeopathy when he said that the difference between his system and Homeopathy is that Homeopathy floods the system with a negative energy similar to the one that has already taken over the organism while flower essences flood the system with the opposite positive energy of the condition. something that Hahneman also says in Organon in a similar wording . He talks about a phantom/ fake energy identical to the one in the organism that because it is fake, it is easier for the system to recognise and handle. As a result then the organism also takes care of the real energy that has taken over it which was too difficult to handle before because the organism was "confused". So when you potentise the remedies you potentize their negative side, not it's positive side, but you do it in a way that when given to an organism it is easy for the body to recognize and resolve. It is like practising in a simulation booth for a real problem. You train, learn and then deal with the real situation which would otherwise be too overwhelming and possibly destructive.
Furthermore, no one has ever taken the masses of Hawthorn to which you refer to in order to know what the side effects would be. Problem is that before you even get there you will probably get vomiting and diarrhea as with most fruits and berries - a protection mechanism of the body to prevent from overindulging.
Cheers
Thanos
The theory bellow about potentiating the "good" energy of something is pure speculation. The only person claiming to be doing that, "potentiating a substances positive energies", was Dr. Edward Bach with his flower remedies. As Hanheman he dedicated his life to that and in his writings he even makes a clear distinction between homeopathy when he said that the difference between his system and Homeopathy is that Homeopathy floods the system with a negative energy similar to the one that has already taken over the organism while flower essences flood the system with the opposite positive energy of the condition. something that Hahneman also says in Organon in a similar wording . He talks about a phantom/ fake energy identical to the one in the organism that because it is fake, it is easier for the system to recognise and handle. As a result then the organism also takes care of the real energy that has taken over it which was too difficult to handle before because the organism was "confused". So when you potentise the remedies you potentize their negative side, not it's positive side, but you do it in a way that when given to an organism it is easy for the body to recognize and resolve. It is like practising in a simulation booth for a real problem. You train, learn and then deal with the real situation which would otherwise be too overwhelming and possibly destructive.
Furthermore, no one has ever taken the masses of Hawthorn to which you refer to in order to know what the side effects would be. Problem is that before you even get there you will probably get vomiting and diarrhea as with most fruits and berries - a protection mechanism of the body to prevent from overindulging.
Cheers
Thanos
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Crategus oxy
Hi Thanos,
You are mistaken - the symptoms need to be close - but not identical.
That is why smallpox substance will NOT cure someone with smallpox.
But substance from a cow's pox (a SIMILAR but not identical disease to smallpox) WILl cure someone with smallpox.
It's all explained in the Organon - and observable in practice.
The point is that cowpox is NOT identical to smallpox:-)
That's why it works. It is similar.
That is not so.
It is proven in research and practice.
And it is the same energy increase method as is used in making a magnet.
With magnets, the more the magnet is rubbed/filed, the stronger the energy
In homeopathy the more it is diluted and succussed, the stronger the energy.
In electricity the more the wiring coil is spun around in the motor, the stronger the energy.
etc
All to do with energy.
He was not the only one. He merely was inspired by Hahnemann who first documented it for healing energy.
He intentionally did not potentize his flower remedies because he wanted to ensure that every person could use them safely without much to be studied first as in homeopathy.
It was for simplicity - not to do with disbelief on potency.
On the contrary, hawthorn HAS been proved.
But it is not necessary to prove a remedy using zero potency.
It is a simple matter to prove it using a higher potency.
You need less doses in a HEALTHY person using potentized (and thus much stronger) Hawthorn to induce symptoms that occur in a WELL person but which would be cured in a person sick with those symptoms.
Perhaps you forgot that provings are done on HEALTHY people - to discover what symptoms occur from the remedy and which would be cured in a SICK person who HAD those symptoms already.
It is NOT wise to use a remedy for symptoms you do not have - you are likely to CAUSE them instead of curing them:-)
Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
You are mistaken - the symptoms need to be close - but not identical.
That is why smallpox substance will NOT cure someone with smallpox.
But substance from a cow's pox (a SIMILAR but not identical disease to smallpox) WILl cure someone with smallpox.
It's all explained in the Organon - and observable in practice.
The point is that cowpox is NOT identical to smallpox:-)
That's why it works. It is similar.
That is not so.
It is proven in research and practice.
And it is the same energy increase method as is used in making a magnet.
With magnets, the more the magnet is rubbed/filed, the stronger the energy
In homeopathy the more it is diluted and succussed, the stronger the energy.
In electricity the more the wiring coil is spun around in the motor, the stronger the energy.
etc
All to do with energy.
He was not the only one. He merely was inspired by Hahnemann who first documented it for healing energy.
He intentionally did not potentize his flower remedies because he wanted to ensure that every person could use them safely without much to be studied first as in homeopathy.
It was for simplicity - not to do with disbelief on potency.
On the contrary, hawthorn HAS been proved.
But it is not necessary to prove a remedy using zero potency.
It is a simple matter to prove it using a higher potency.
You need less doses in a HEALTHY person using potentized (and thus much stronger) Hawthorn to induce symptoms that occur in a WELL person but which would be cured in a person sick with those symptoms.
Perhaps you forgot that provings are done on HEALTHY people - to discover what symptoms occur from the remedy and which would be cured in a SICK person who HAD those symptoms already.
It is NOT wise to use a remedy for symptoms you do not have - you are likely to CAUSE them instead of curing them:-)
Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Athanasios Razis
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: Crategus oxy
I can't say i appreciate that you responded to a coherent email in a segmented/Frankenstein way breaking it down to incoherent sentences. But then again that was probably the only way to introduce your theories on magnets, circuits and cables without having to argue any of the main points. I would nevertheless appreciate it if you could take the time to also respond the the rest of the arguments as you conveniently chose to answer to some and ignore others. For example i noticed that in you recent response to Jeff you referenced the Organon, but you completely missed my reference to Organon with regards to Hahneman's explanation on how the energy of the remedy works after it has been introduced to the organism.... And i did mention Bach as an example of another great healer whose analysis agreed with Hahneman's but then again we ignore him as well cause he was just lazy!
To sum up if you have a case of a clear Apis symptoms - with IDENTICAL symptomatology to the symptomatology of Apis you are telling me that you will use a different remedy cause you are not looking for the remedy with the identical symptomatology but with a similar one? Which in this case would be what? Cantharis? And what is similar for you? Same presentation but with one or two different modalities? Because this is what you have been arguing all along your emails. And again i made a clear distinction between using the same substance that was also ingonred in your answer...
Last but not least Chickenpox will not cure Small pox if the symptoms are not identical to the symptomatology (proving) of Chickenpox. Not every person with Chickenpox will develop the same symptomatology.
Thanos
To sum up if you have a case of a clear Apis symptoms - with IDENTICAL symptomatology to the symptomatology of Apis you are telling me that you will use a different remedy cause you are not looking for the remedy with the identical symptomatology but with a similar one? Which in this case would be what? Cantharis? And what is similar for you? Same presentation but with one or two different modalities? Because this is what you have been arguing all along your emails. And again i made a clear distinction between using the same substance that was also ingonred in your answer...
Last but not least Chickenpox will not cure Small pox if the symptoms are not identical to the symptomatology (proving) of Chickenpox. Not every person with Chickenpox will develop the same symptomatology.
Thanos