Minutus

Probably not the same machine but at a conference years ago someone was selling machines that took
frequency readings in a similar manner as you describe and that got translated into a remedy. This system
had the names for the different frequencies/homeopathic remedies. It read about 2000 frequency/remedies.
Not the same but using similar principles.
Hulda Clark is a very renounced healer with several books under her name. She passed on in 2009 and you
can look her up online for more info.
tanya
finrod@finrod.co.uk
Saturday, May 07, 2011 12:14 AM
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Is Ellen describing a Voll machine below? One was used on me once in Moscow and then the supposed homeopath prescribed Heel products. The process was like what Ellen describes, I think, though I was very ill and so am not sure. Not a success with me. Teresa (Northern VA)
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ellen Madono

Hi,
I met a man in Taiwan the other day who is using machine made frequencies of different tissues, diseased I think because he is looking for levels of pathology. He puts the bottle that is charged with the frequency on a metal plate. He has a battery operated sensor that he touches to the px's finger. He gets a numerical reading from the px (through an electronic sensor) and looks to see the degree that the reading matches the px frequency. I guess he is reading the identity of a "remedy"= frequency in the px. He gets a numerical reading (1-50, 30-40 being normal). He is also looking for organ function levels. He goes through about 30 broad tissue samples. Once he gets a poorly functioning organ (hyper or hypo according to the reading), he goes to another set (box of frequencies in water) of tissue samples frequencies looking for the specific type of pathology (not healthy frequency) for specific organs. He says his boxes are very sensitive to other frequencies (eg., a computer), and not that they lose potency from age. I heard that the homeopathic program Isis makes sound potencies so I am totally at sea with all of this. His work makes me think back to what I read from an older (now probably not alive) homeopath woman (Hulda Clark) living in the northern Midwest. She was chased around and ended up having a clinic in Mexico. She was looking for flukes and any number of diseased tissue types.
He follows his findings of px weaknesses or disease with homeopathic remedies possibly from the radionics machine. He appears to be using recipe combination remedies because he does not know anything about repertories. Apparently, this information was handed to him from a Chinese who studied in England. He knows the Organon and Chronic Diseases because they are translated into Chinese.

Hi Lynn,

I agree. I also have the concern that patients may not always be told about these limitations with radionically prepared remedies - or even told they are prepared that way.

This means that they end up with dud remedies in their home that cannot be relied upon to do the job further down the path. While this may not be of concern for the passing cough or cold it is for those real emergencies such as chest pain or haemorrhage. Both patients and homeopaths, who may be making urgent prescriptions over the phone, have to be able to have confidence in the remedies people have collected over the years.

Apart from that, do you know of any firm studies or comparisons that have been done or is your information anecdotal?

By beliefs have come from those practitioners who prepare and use radionics - they say the same as you - that the remedies do not last as long.
finrod@finrod.co.uk
Saturday, May 07, 2011 12:14 AM
--
Kind regards,

Fran Sheffield

Hi Dr. Roz,
Yes sounds pretty good. But I have a few wandering thoughts.
The very directed energy of chigong or aikido human to human is in my feeling different from machine made or isolated frequencies. Frequencies are very narrowly defined.
Being drained by the highly absorbent patient during treatment is really different from taking in the asorted energies of a radionics machine. The hungry px is just taking everything that he can get. For better or for worse for both parties. I have been using tuning forks working with my acupuncture teacher. She observes that I I treat myself while I am treating the px and get pretty tired when I am treating. Seems she does not get so tired using needles which do not vibrate with the same level of physically obvious vibration. Doing homeopathy, I do not get so drained with the most needy px. Maybe I am being drained by the patient, but I think her theory is right. I am hungrier for the energies that I am using for treatment than she is, so I am taking in more of the energies that I am using for treatment. That can be tiring since the energy is not organized for my treatment. Like you say, a bit like the radionics blast.
The Chinese chigong master the other day said that you have to have a lot of chi already to do chigong. I could see that was very true. I could not reproduce his results using my own chi, for example. But he said he does chigong on himself.
You don't need a lot of chi to do acupuncture or acutonics. But you need the chi sensitivity to diagnosis as you are treating. So if you don't need a lot of chi, at least you have to be able to easily feel other people's chi. Of course photos of what appears to be chi backup this sort of touchy feely experience of mine.
I am not sure that we can equate chi with remedy energy. I have patients who react to remedies imediately, but that is a far cry from being able to feel the movement of chi, or to see it. Chi, because I can feel it, seems much more concrete than frequencies.

I have heard somewhere that homeopaths tend to die older than allopaths. The explanation that I heard was they die old just because they try so many of their own remedies and work through their issues. Certainly I have heard of my share of relatively young homeopaths dying, so I am not sure about that. Maybe they start homeopathy when they are already are in not very good condition?? For sure, the homeopaths do not have the death rates of allopaths, just because they do not use allopathy if they avoid it.
I was thinking today that everything in this world has its own frequency. ie., it has its own identity. So we are exposed to a huge confusion of different frequencies all the time. The radionics frequency, or the sugar pellet frequencies are some how more intense. That has to be the issue. Chi is closer to naturally occuring frequency, but again concentrated by tapping into the the body/mind energy systems, so not the normal level either.
Blessings,
Ellen
Those of us who practice Qigong medicine, Reiki, Pranic Healing and other of those purely energetic hands on methods are warned and taught to protect themselves from absorbing the pathological energy of our patients and/or how to cleanse from it.
Feeling the musculo-skeletal imbalances or the organ motility when practicing ortho-bionomy or visceral manipulation is also an "energetic" reading and I do know from personal experience the overload that a teaching session can lead to when jumping from one allegedly healthy colleague to another to check and "treat".
But that is direct transmission of dissonant energy form one human being to another, like contagion during an epidemic...you get it anyway, it is how you deal with it that makes you sick or not. You know the story, when you feel totally drained after a consultation, your patient is an "energetic vampire".... We must learn how to recognise them and deal with the "Vampirism".
Homeopathy is energy medicine too, so if you manipulate lots of remedies all the time, like in a pharmacy, you will be "exposed"; yet most of the time the remedies are bottled and I would suppose that the summation of all minimal vibrations eventually neutralises itself.
It might (note my writing might) not be the same with a radionic machine where the is no "shielding" and it might emit full blast in all directions, giving overexposure...it is a theory , OK, not something I postulate as being true.
We tend to underestimate the power of energy we cannot measure; we should not, seriously.
Ellen, you are an Aikido practitioner like myself.... You know what you can do with "Kokyu-Nage"...the technique must be good, but if you do it without Qi/energy, you know it will not work.
Incorrect energy form an incorrect remedy = nothing happens; same wrong energy repeated continuously = proving or worse, grafting with disease difficult to treat....
Did I somehow answer or confuse????
Joe.
 
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com

This does sound like an EAV or Voll device. My son's homeopath used this to treat him many years ago, while I worked hard to suspend my disbelief. It always seemed to me that this man used the EAV because he was terribly shy and had difficulties interacting with his patients.
Peace,
Dale

We seem to be wandering away from homeopathy, discussing Qi, etc,....
Let me give a parting image that often guides me when I try to understand the "different" energies: the power line coming into my home brings electricity, always same volts and same watts.
The energy that comes out from the different gimmicks I plug in the wall sockets will be different: heater, air conditioning, TV, computer, oven,.....
OK???
 
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com

Hi Fran,

I have gotten my information concerning the short shelf life of radionically prepared remedies from other list discussions and information provided by Julian Winston, Robin Murphy and Steve Waldstein. I'm not aware of any published studies.
article
from
"Homeopathy Today"
Tools and integrity

July/August 2000
by Julian Winston
I have just returned from two weeks in Germany. I had planned to write an editorial about some of the ideas I came across while I was there, but another matter arose, so Germany will have to wait.

The primary tools we use in homeopathy are the reference books and the homeopathic medicines themselves.

Many years ago, Jay Borneman (now with Standard Homeopathic) commented to me that the accuracy of the homeopathic manufacturing/potentizing process is completely critical to our work. "There are no ways for me to test it," he said. "When I ship out an Ignatia 1M, I have to trust it is what I say it is, and I know that only through the accuracy of the manufacture. There is no way we can do an analysis to determine its accuracy. If no one complains that it didn't work, then I assume it is OK."

Hahnemann, who had difficulties with pharmacies all his life, gave full instructions for making the remedies in the /Organon/, and suggested that the only way for practitioners to know the accuracy of the tools they use is to make the remedies themselves. But homeopathic pharmacies did blossom, and we are dependent upon them for providing us with accurate remedies.

There are two ways of assuring the "correctness" of a homeopathic remedy or, for that matter, the quality of any manufactured product. The first way is to have quality control of the end product. The second is to have quality control of the process itself. Since it is almost impossible (as Jay pointed out) to evaluate the quality of the end homeopathic product, the control we have is of the manufacturing process. If you have a fully documented process, and follow it in each step, then the end result should be an acceptable product.

But how can we be assured the pharmacies have the integrity to have this come about? An article by Wilmar Schwabe titled "Homeopathic Pharmacy in Germany," appeared in the /Homeopathic Recorder/, Volume l4, 1899. He writes that in 1887, members of the Berlin Homeopathic Society assembled a list of Latin names that sounded like remedies: Tuber cinereum (a part of the brain), Urticaria rubra (nettle rash), Pemphigus folaceus (malignant blisters), and, best of all, Madaroma fraudulentum (fraudulent bald-head). They wrote out prescriptions for these items, and went to 89 drug stores in Berlin. Only 12 refused these prescriptions. Seven pharmacies filled the prescription for Madaroma fraudulentum, trit. 3X!The problem stated by Schwabe is not very far from the surface today.

A number of practitioners have been interested in obtaining the remedies discussed by Dutch homeopath Jan Scholten who postulates a theoretical use of some combinations of elements, based (to some extent) on their position in the Periodic Table of the Elements. Many of the elemental combinations he speculates about do not exist. Certainly we can get Kali bichromicum (potassium dichromate), but what about Cesium phosphate? A substance such as Aurum fluor, which may be a workable combination according to Scholten's theory, does not exist in nature and if made is extremely unstable. It cannot hold together long enough to withstand the homeopathic preparation process.

Celletech, Ltd., a homeopathic pharmacy in Madison, Wisconsin (which sells under the "National Homeopathic Products" brand), has reportedly provided some of these rare remedies to practitioners who requested them. When asked about the sources for these remedies, a company representative reportedly said they came from a pharmacy in Europe and and were prepared in a "Hahnemannian manner."

However, the FDA recently sent a warning letter to Celletech charging them with non-compliance in the preparation of some of their remedies (among other charges). [The letter is public information and can be found on the FDA web pages at http://www.fda.gov/foi/warning.htm .]

The letter states:

"Homeopathic drugs must be manufactured in accordance with the principles of homeopathy. Products manufactured through the use of your firm's 'magneto-geometric process' ... are not manufactured according to homeopathic principles and, therefore, are not homeopathic."

Apparently, Celletech has been charged with using a type of “radionics device" to "make" some "homeopathic potencies." In such devices, a magnet typically "reads" a geometric pattern from a card and "transfers" that pattern to alcohol. According to the makers of such devices, the resulting alcohol is said to be a "homeopathic remedy." The geometric patterns (which vary for each "remedy" and "potency") are based on information derived by "dowsing." Obviously, this is quite different from the Hahnemannian preparation method of serial dilution and succussion. The manufacture and sale of products made with radionics devices do not meet the guidelines specified in the /Homeopathic Pharmacopoeia of the U.S. (HPUS)/ and, therefore, are not legal homeopathic products.

The FDA's warning letter gave Celletech 15 days to "correct the stated violations." In mid-April, Celletech President John Cain wrote to me and said, "Celletech has decided not to go to the effort of having the /HPUS/ recognize Magneto Geometric Applications as an approved method at this time. Celletech does not believe that Celletech products are drugs and Celletech does not believe that these products should be regulated by FDA. Accordingly, Celletech has informed FDA that Celletech no longer labels products produced by Magneto Geometric Applications as homeopathic remedies. Celletech is now devoting its efforts to the field of micro-nutrition."

The issue is one of integrity. Integrity of the homeopathic pharmacy process (which the FDA refers to as a "validated process") and integrity of the manufacturer. While you can audit and enforce validated process, no government agency can "enforce" integrity. You either have it, or you don't.

The homeopathic pharmacies in the U.S. use standard processes that are validated over and over—not because they fear the FDA, but because they respect homeopathy and respect their customers. As Jay Borneman commented to me recently, "We have an obligation and we discharge it with pride (all this for five bucks a bottle!)."

If Celletech used a "magneto-geometric process" device to "make remedies" and then labeled them as "homeopathic remedies," as the FDA has charged, this is a serious breach of integrity—not only because FDA believes it violates the law but because unknowing consumers who see the label think they are buying real homeopathic remedies prepared in accordance with the /HPUS/.

This community should have no time for those who lack integrity in the process or mislead their customers. It is that simple. However, the underlying issue is "how do we know how the remedies are made at other pharmaceutical companies?" Might an independent commission of homeopaths be established to visit and issue a report on the manufacturing methods in use at all homeopathic pharmacies who will invite the commission to visit their laboratories? Strong stuff, but we, the homeopathic community, need to know sooner rather than later. And the pharmacies themselves need to know because they get prescriptions for patients for remedies that they may not have on hand, and they have to buy them from other pharmacies just as the public does. I have heard stories from homeopaths who tell of giving a remedy from pharmacy A which doesn't work and much later trying the same remedy from pharmacy B which does work. Do we tell them? It is a two-way street—the pharmacies should be straight with us, and we should be straight with them.

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http://badger.state.wi.us/agencies/drl/ ... 00066.html
This is NOT a question of whether or not the Rae machine works. It is simply an effort to follow the FDA regulations which describe the manufacturing process for something that is labeled “homeopathic.” The Rae Machine falls outside of those guidelines. Therefore, remedies made on the machine , if labeled homeopathic and offered for sale, are being deliberately mis-branded-- and THAT is illegal.

A Pharmacy was caught making and selling stuff that is misbranded according to FDA Law.

JW
--------------------------
Hi Lynn,

Apart from that, do you know of any firm studies or comparisons that have been done or is your information anecdotal?

By beliefs have come from those practitioners who prepare and use radionics - they say the same as you - that the remedies do not last as long.

Lynn,
The debate about remedies being made radionically will go on for quite some time imaginably.
However, please do not use the FDA as any sort of authority regarding homeopathy. It has only
1 high mission and that is to attack and destroy anything that is not big pharma controlled and
is holistic. They
________________________________

Hi Dale,
This man seems to be treating with the device, but also locating areas where there are problems. I prefer classical homeopathy for treatment, but I can see where I have trouble locating the problem.
I think what he is doing for treatment is much simpler than classical homeopathy. Requires less skill and knowledge. But I am not sure.
How were the results for your son?
Blessings,
Ellen

Rife was extraordinarily successful which is why they destroyed his lab and records.
I think it fortunate that his cohorts retained some information to build back.
It seems that we can be guilty of the same thing as allopaths and other healers: we can
get so self-centered in what we do/believe, that we negate the value of other modalities
that can be of great help at times to what we do.
tanya
________________________________