Minutus

Against conventional wisdom, the only way to a breakthrough.
V

As Dr J. suggested, Hahnemann at first employed succussion as anybody else does, merely as an efficacious means of thoroughly mixing solute and solvent. He didn't at first connect succussion with any increase in medicinal power. Rather, he later deduced (by reductionist methods, if you like) that succussion was the only possible factor that led what were otherwise merely highly diluted medicines to remain capable of causing a primary stimulus in the organism, albeit usually a far gentler one than the undiluted medicine was known to be capable of causing.

Later still, he realised that, despite the high dilutions that resulted from the serial dilution-and-succussion process, the quantity of the succussed solution continued to have an effect on the violence of its primary action; and that fewer succussions at each stage of the process, followed by, in effect, very gentle succussions (through stirring) in diluting the final potency for the sensitive, provided a happy medium between excessive medicinal force and resistance of the organism to repeated doses on the one hand and slowness of cure on the other, through increasing the potency of each successive dose.

None of this was based on preconceived hypotheses. It was the long result of the scientific endeavour to eliminate hypotheses through continual experimentation, observation, and refinement of experimental methods, in order to work out what was going on and what approaches best helped patients.

Cheers --

John
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"What we're suggesting is that something that doesn't really interact with anything is changing something that can't be changed."
-- Jere Jenkins, on the apparent influence of solar neutrinos on rates of radioactive decay, 23 Aug 2010

Hello Victoria,
Actually "you" do not know what led Hahnemann to succussing. There are many of us who do. And your vacuous, shortsighted, utopic commentary on replacing scientific rigour with "wonder" as you say, is to miss the point entirely. The point is that Varun can "wonder" incessantly and/or endlessly, elsewhere. And to call what he is doing as wondering is wholly inaccurate. He would need to specify that he was indeed "pondering in awe" the workings of the universe. Not turn his subjective extrapolations into statements of fact. This of course is the problem that several of us on this forum take issue with. So if these are met by you as "narrow minded" commentaries, then I would remind you that Homeopathy is by the way a science, which does require the scientific method and peer review. So it is the community's job to point out erroneous claims made by those who call themselves Homeopaths or what they do as Homeopathy.
And by the way the first stage of the scientific method, is the phase of the process in which their is ample wonder. Many of us edumacated folks are still capable of "wonder", in spite of that pesky, inconsiderate, annoying, non new agey, feel good, scientific method thingy.
Rik
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Victoria M. Sky" wrote:

Hi, Joy -- what Hahnemann expressed in footnotes to § 269 is his understanding of what occurs through succussion, an understanding that developed in time from his realisation that it was succussion that was responsible for the difference between an effective highly diluted medicine and a simple, ineffective, high dilution. In other words, after discovering the reason for the difference, he then reasoned as to its mechanism.

But it's crystal clear that Hahnemann did not expect to encounter the phenomenon of transmitted medicinal potency. When he undertook his carefully calculated serial dilutions and triturations, he did so in order to have an accurate means of working out how much medicine was in a given quantity of water or lactose, in order to discover the minimum dose capable of effecting a cure. His failure to find a minimum dose was the anomaly that led him to the realisation that succussion, which he had used simply for thoroughness in mixing, was capable of effecting persistence of medicinal activity in a solution from which had been eluted all medicinal substance.
But what Dr J. is getting at is Hahnemann's reason for succussing in the first place. This is a far more straightforward matter than any predictions of medicinal potency. It's common experience that striking a bottle containing a mixture of liquids assists in making the mixture more homogeneous. That's the reason he did it in the first place.

Cheers --

John
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
"What we're suggesting is that something that doesn't really interact with anything is changing something that can't be changed."
-- Jere Jenkins, on the apparent influence of solar neutrinos on rates of radioactive decay, 23 Aug 2010

You cannot expect to discover something that doesn't exist and §269 clearly demonstrates that H knew that succussion existed - you only have to know about the history of sneezing to go with that (hippocratic corpus etc), it also clearly states that he was the one who first put this idea of friction together intimately linked as it is with potentisation and the dynamaization of substances and how necessary it is for curative action, so to me it is clear that this announces WHY as well as HOW he chose to do this

all succussion is = friction and you also answered why and how he chose to do this yourself anyway

so I'll exit on that but thanks

Joy

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, John Harvey wrote:

In his article "Information for the Truth Seeker" (1825, in Allg. Ans. der Deutschen), Hahnemann states
"For hundreds of years nothing was known of the power of many crude medicinal substances. These, if made into a solution, can, by repeated shakings or by long-continued trituration with non-medicinal powder, be worked up to very intensive medicines with marvelous effects. ... By trituration (shaking) the latent medicinal power is wonderfully liberated and vitalised, as if, once freed from the fetters of matter, it could act upon the human organism more insistently and fully. In reality dilution is potentizing, not merely a material splitting up and lessening, in which every part must be smaller than the whole, but a spiritualising of the inner medicinal powers by removing the covering of nature's forces, and the palpable substance which can be weighed, no longer enters into consideration."
Lynn
------------------------

Joy wrote:
--
Imagine Peace

that information I just posted comes from an article by Will Taylor
"The Development of Dose and Potency in the History of Homoeopathy"

which can be read in full :
http://www.bringhealth.com/homeopathy_principles.html
Lynn Cremona wrote:
--
Imagine Peace

Posting my mail to Andrew's questions which he asked earlier with the hope that it will get approved now, as earlier my mail was not approved.........
Andrew you have really posed very valid questions. Thanks a lot for asking them too.

First of all I would like to tell that scientists don’t know what that 74% of energy is and thus they have given the name Dark to it. Many hypotheses have also been put forward to explain it but none has been accepted yet with proper conviction. Just make it easy for a while and just think on the fact that it is some energy and even scientists are keenly willing to find and know what it is.

About the fact of E = mc^2 giving 26% of energy as you asked then it comes as a natural by statement to the fact that 74% of energy is required to reconcile the total energy in the universe as known mass as well as energies calculated and thus totalled does not account for total energy in the Universe. Now here mass would be totalled to energy only by E = mc^2 only and the known energy will also come under the aegis of Einstein’s equation only.

Now let’s again come back to the point that Dark energy is some energy only. Our mind, which we really can’t see, is made of some energies only and it will only come in the realms of Dark Energy as we again have no option here. But does this hypothesis solve any problem? Actually it does. If we can know somewhat into these energies and know what all energies our mind is made of and how these energies work in us or you can say provide a framework to it then we got a very good lead to work even into the concept of Dark Energies. You may say I’m somewhat confusing in my words here but actually I’m not as I’ve properly explained how our mind is made of some energies and how it works. Take it a thing like Newton said gravity is there but he had no scientific evidence to prove that when he said that, but gravity explained falling of apple so it had to exist and later it was even proved mathematically.

We have been saying right from the inception of Homeopathy that Homeopathic medicines act on mind and just try to catch the correlation here that it can only be possible if it is made of same energies as our mind is made of. And this is the reason which makes Homeopathy the only perfect pathy as no other pathy works on extracting this higher form of energy in alcohol and thus no other pathy can manifest the cure in real terms.

A big step forward in my theory also is that Dark Energy is not just one energy but a blend of similar type of energies and even our mind is made of them. Say like we have hundred of those energies and one person’s mind could be made of ten of those and others’ say twenty of those.

Now my theory explains all this and even working of Homeopathic medicines by this and even the Law of Similars comes as a natural by statement of my theory. As gravity was required to explain falling of apple and thus it had to be true so anything which can easily explain working of Homeopathic medicines and all of its other concepts has to be true.

I’m been repeatedly saying that each and every concept of Homeopathy can be easily explained by my theory.

More so, mark my words again that there are very many new discoveries and concepts in relation to usage of medicines and thus very many new things to revolutionize Homeopathy.

Till now I’ve talked about science but let me also tell you what all seems so difficult to understand is not so difficult actually if we would have some knowledge into Indian scriptures, Vedas and Upanishads. Time and again scholars have said that Vedas and Upanishads are repository of vast scientific knowledge. I’ve got to learn about this rare knowledge from my Guru, Jagadguru Shri Kripalu Ji Maharaj. Many cases that are normally seen by Homeopaths on daily basis would require using of these concepts but as they are still not aware of them so they are still working on single medicine at a time concept. If you remember once in my earlier post I also said that Crotalus Cascavella might be required to mix with Lachesis in the potency two standard potencies below Lachesis, taking 6C, 30C, 200C, 1M, 10M and CM as standard potencies. This means if Lachesis is given in 200C potency then Crotalus Cascavella should be mixed with it in 6C potency and so on with other potencies, if required as per the case. Now this comes from a very sound new concept and I’ve even talked of more remedies here than only Lachesis and Crotalus Cascavella. This as well as other new concepts can be easily verified as these things will be easily visible in day today cases thus providing all clinical evidence to my theory for all Homeopaths by themselves than by me.
Varun

http://eyevarun.blogspot.com
http://eyevarun.spaces.live.com
http://varunstheory.com
http://eyevarun.wordress.com
http://twitter.com/eyevarun
http://facebook.com/eyevarun

Dear Varun
You have not ANSWERED Andrew's questions at all.
All you seem to be doing is repeating the same old things which gets absolutely boring.
Also I asked you previously about your understanding of the dynamic nature of disease and also that of homeopathic remedies. You have NOT answered that either.
In all of your statements, whether on Minutus or in your book, I have not noticed one iota of evidence. It is all theory.

You then have the absolute audacity of stating that aph 273 where Hn emphasises about the administration of a single remedy is wrong and propose your mixture as before.
It is of note that in my opinion and of those colleagues who have now seen parts of your book that you in the mistaken belief that you have an understanding of homeopathy to the degree of ignoring all advice of your elders and betters, proceeded to self treat (It reminds me of the adage that "the homeopath who treats himself, has FOOL for a patient") with mixtures and crazy repetitions (Psor CM every 10 minutes) which has resulted in your current state.
What is your current state?

Tremendous arrogance and delusion that you are better than others. I stop here, but the rest of your symptoms are easily seen by any one reading your book!

You are bent on self promotion and the promotion of ideas that have come out of a diseased mind.
I sincerely recommend you get yourself seen by competent homeopath and then listen to what they tell you.

Luckily, Minutus is so big that we can find you one hopefully not too far away.
LASTLY, we certainly do not wish to see the idea of homeopathic mixes being promoted on Minutus, so please stop such posts.
I hope that you regain good health soon.
Rgds

Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Varun Gupta
Sent: 28 October 2010 07:03
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Re: Dark Energy, where the answers to Homeopathy actually lies.........
Posting my mail to Andrew's questions which he asked earlier with the hope that it will get approved now, as earlier my mail was not approved.........
Andrew you have really posed very valid questions. Thanks a lot for asking them too.

First of all I would like to tell that scientists don’t know what that 74% of energy is and thus they have given the name Dark to it. Many hypotheses have also been put forward to explain it but none has been accepted yet with proper conviction. Just make it easy for a while and just think on the fact that it is some energy and even scientists are keenly willing to find and know what it is.

About the fact of E = mc^2 giving 26% of energy as you asked then it comes as a natural by statement to the fact that 74% of energy is required to reconcile the total energy in the universe as known mass as well as energies calculated and thus totalled does not account for total energy in the Universe. Now here mass would be totalled to energy only by E = mc^2 only and the known energy will also come under the aegis of Einstein’s equation only.

Now let’s again come back to the point that Dark energy is some energy only. Our mind, which we really can’t see, is made of some energies only and it will only come in the realms of Dark Energy as we again have no option here. But does this hypothesis solve any problem? Actually it does. If we can know somewhat into these energies and know what all energies our mind is made of and how these energies work in us or you can say provide a framework to it then we got a very good lead to work even into the concept of Dark Energies. You may say I’m somewhat confusing in my words here but actually I’m not as I’ve properly explained how our mind is made of some energies and how it works. Take it a thing like Newton said gravity is there but he had no scientific evidence to prove that when he said that, but gravity explained falling of apple so it had to exist and later it was even proved mathematically.

We have been saying right from the inception of Homeopathy that Homeopathic medicines act on mind and just try to catch the correlation here that it can only be possible if it is made of same energies as our mind is made of. And this is the reason which makes Homeopathy the only perfect pathy as no other pathy works on extracting this higher form of energy in alcohol and thus no other pathy can manifest the cure in real terms.

A big step forward in my theory also is that Dark Energy is not just one energy but a blend of similar type of energies and even our mind is made of them. Say like we have hundred of those energies and one person’s mind could be made of ten of those and others’ say twenty of those.

Now my theory explains all this and even working of Homeopathic medicines by this and even the Law of Similars comes as a natural by statement of my theory. As gravity was required to explain falling of apple and thus it had to be true so anything which can easily explain working of Homeopathic medicines and all of its other concepts has to be true.

I’m been repeatedly saying that each and every concept of Homeopathy can be easily explained by my theory.

More so, mark my words again that there are very many new discoveries and concepts in relation to usage of medicines and thus very many new things to revolutionize Homeopathy.

Till now I’ve talked about science but let me also tell you what all seems so difficult to understand is not so difficult actually if we would have some knowledge into Indian scriptures, Vedas and Upanishads. Time and again scholars have said that Vedas and Upanishads are repository of vast scientific knowledge. I’ve got to learn about this rare knowledge from my Guru, Jagadguru Shri Kripalu Ji Maharaj. Many cases that are normally seen by Homeopaths on daily basis would require using of these concepts but as they are still not aware of them so they are still working on single medicine at a time concept. If you remember once in my earlier post I also said that Crotalus Cascavella might be required to mix with Lachesis in the potency two standard potencies below Lachesis, taking 6C, 30C, 200C, 1M, 10M and CM as standard potencies. This means if Lachesis is given in 200C potency then Crotalus Cascavella should be mixed with it in 6C potency and so on with other potencies, if required as per the case. Now this comes from a very sound new concept and I’ve even talked of more remedies here than only Lachesis and Crotalus Cascavella. This as well as other new concepts can be easily verified as these things will be easily visible in day today cases thus providing all clinical evidence to my theory for all Homeopaths by themselves than by me.
Varun

http://eyevarun.blogspot.com
http://eyevarun.spaces.live.com
http://varunstheory.com
http://eyevarun.wordress.com
http://twitter.com/eyevarun
http://facebook.com/eyevarun
Please check out my answers in the Homeopathy yahoo group, BeyondHomeopathy.........
Varun
that information I just posted comes from an article by Will Taylor

"The Development of Dose and Potency in the History of Homoeopathy"

which can be read in full :
http://www.bringhealth.com/homeopathy_principles.html
Lynn Cremona wrote:
In his article "Information for the Truth Seeker" (1825, in Allg. Ans. der Deutschen), Hahnemann states
"For hundreds of years nothing was known of the power of many crude medicinal substances. These, if made into a solution, can, by repeated shakings or by long-continued trituration with non-medicinal powder, be worked up to very intensive medicines with marvelous effects. ... By trituration (shaking) the latent medicinal power is wonderfully liberated and vitalised, as if, once freed from the fetters of matter, it could act upon the human organism more insistently and fully. In reality dilution is potentizing, not merely a material splitting up and lessening, in which every part must be smaller than the whole, but a spiritualising of the inner medicinal powers by removing the covering of nature's forces, and the palpable substance which can be weighed, no longer enters into consideration."

Lynn
------------------------
--
Imagine Peace
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Soroush, I know you'll keep on bringing my good points in negative way.........

I've clearly stated Psorinum was not required for me and I was wrong there, but anyway its okk.........
Varun