that the same potency shouldn't be given twice in a row

[Chris_Gillen]

Hello Gail, all,
I'm not so presumptious. Let's get real, folks. Daily dosing for weeks-on-end *without stopping to assess the curative action via the Vital response* does not comply with homoeopathic prescribing in any edition of the Organon. Additionally, as far as I can see from the published transcriptions I have of Hahnemann's German and French casebooks, Hahnemann practised what he preached regarding *the minimum dose*. He didn't go off on an allopathic tangent there, he varied repetitions, used intercurrents, or interspersed medicines with placebo doses.
Importantly, and central to this discussion is, that Hahnemann plainly described in all editions of the Organon the difference between homoeopathic and antipathic medical treatments. He observed that the primary drug effect (via the similar medicine) was always immediately followed by a necessary and opposite Vital (curative) response in the patient that eventuated in homeostasis.
By ceasing medicating at appropriate intervals, we give the Vital Force the opportunity to counteract the medicinal (homoeopathic) stimulus in a curative way.
By ceasing medicating at appropriate intervals, we give ourselves the opportunity to assess the appropriateness of our prescription in terms of the Law of Similars.
If we don't stop medicating for weeks-on-end we are merely maintaining the primary drug effect of the medicine, thus overpowering the natural instinctive counterreaction of the Vital Force, which can hardly be termed *curative* in the homoeopathic sense. Yes, the symptoms might "disappear" but that can happen with either form of medical treatment.
Allopaths prescribe chronic medication on a routine or daily basis in a deliberate attempt to control and/or suppress morbid symptomatology through maintaining the primary drug effects in their medications(s). We can do the same with potentized medicines too if we follow this route to ultimately suppress morbid symptoms. It would not be surprising at all under these circumstances to see an eventual return of this original skin complaint under future homoeopathic treatment.
To repeat my original assertion, I think we can offer better *homoeopathic* treatment and results, than the one example offered by Liz. But my suggestion is, first we need to at least understand the difference between homoeopathic and antipathic treatments (Aphorisms 61 - 69), which IS intrinsically related to posology in case management.
Chris.

[Chris_Gillen]

Gee Liz, you could have made an attempt to answer in a relevant way.
Such comparisons in alleged claims of cures are NOT worthless. If we want to be better homoeopaths, we all need to develop an understanding of the difference between homoeopathic and antipathic medical treatments, and the importance of posology and case management strategies, and how genuine cures are effected. Otherwise as a profession we are doomed to continue making supercilious claims of cures with patently non-homoeopathic approaches, and to react to every legitimate question or statement as a perceived personal criticism.
It's up to you...
And, you don't actually have the authority to tell me what statements I can and can't respond to on a public list. That's a little egomaniacal Liz )
Chris

[Gail Allen]

To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: chrisgillen1@optusnet.com.au
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 12:10:50 +1000
Subject: Fw: [Minutus] that the same potency shouldn't be given twice in a row
Hello Gail, all,
I'm not so presumptious. Let's get real, folks. Daily dosing for weeks-on-end *without stopping to assess the curative action via the Vital response* does not comply with homoeopathic prescribing in any edition of the Organon.
Hi Liz,
The point here is the assumption that there was no ongoing assessment happening - if both of you and Liz simply say 'I did this and the symptoms went away' anyone with a bone to pick can twist what you have said because we all know that 'symptoms going away' is simplistic. And I don't mean for both of you to put your cases up so they can be picked to pieces and judged.
To me this is not a discussion about what Hahnamann said or did - it's whether we can keep an open mind and listen to others with respect rather than assuming the worst of them and judgementally dismissing anything that feels wrong.
Gail.

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[Liz Brynin]

Sorry Chris - I didn't mean to 'control' you!
But you could have replied to my original post in a less confrontational way - it's a bit rich you calling my prescription 'allopathic' when you know nothing at all about the case, on what basis I prescribed as I did, and what the outcome was. So in that sense, your comparison of my prescription and yours, so radically different, was worthless.More to the point, it's unscientific. You can't compare (and that's what I meant by keeping such comments to yourself) because you don't have any facts. I, on the other hand, have the full facts of my case to hand - so I can say that dry potencies work - they cure. And they are not allopathic.
No doubt you would like me to explain in detail - quite honestly, I don't really want to - don't have the time. But here are the basic facts, just so that you know I'm not inventing anything, and so that you can understand why I will not accept 'blanket statements' such as "Dry potencies do not work/cause aggravations/are allopathic/harm the patient/are suppressive" or any other such remarks that have been made.
CASE: This was a middle-aged woman - PC was dermatitis, which had broken out severely on her scalp (she had had milder outbreaks in the past) since her husband had been arrested and put into prison for pornography online. Her hair had started coming out and her shoulders were covered in 'snow' from the scurf and she was acutely aware of it and embarrassed. Very stressed and ashamed of the whole situation etc. Would not look at me directly, sat sideways and avoided eye contact.
She intially had Nat Mur 30 - 1M over 3 days, plus IM to hold and take weekly till next visit. To ring me after two weeks to report.
She did not ring - contacted me 6 weeks later. Was feeling much better - stronger emotionally. Not weeping every few minutes. However, the dermatitis had spread down the back of her neck (> on top of head) and broken out under her breasts. Still very scurfy - looked terrible. hair not falling out so much.
Prescription changed to Nat Mur 12C b.d. in order to deal with the physical expression of her grief, plus Ignatia 200C to hold for when she felt the grief was overwhelming. (the courtcase had been delayed, police had come round to get his computer etc. etc. Very emotional situation)
Also prescribed Oil of Evening primrose to help with dry skin plus some aromatherapy base oil with Bach Flower Crab Apple to rub into her scalp.
Phoned two weeks later. Improvement continuing - oil a big help for her scalp.
Returned two months later. To my surprise, a different woman. Much happier - looked me straight in the eye. Dermatitis has cleared off her scalp and moved further down to her abdomen, then to her groin, the ends of her fingers (now cleared but nails are pitted) and her legs have now begun to break out and itch a little.
Presc. Continue as before. Nat. Mur 12C b.d.
Subsequently, she did not return as things had got so much better - she sold her house, changed jobs and was doing very well when I ran into her again by accident a year or so later.
Liz
Next visit
Liz

[Joy Lucas]

OMG as they say

Pitted nails is acceptable as an end stage cure? When did you put her out of her misery with this daily dosing and potential suppression of the external disease?

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/

[Liz Brynin]

Dear Joy
I see you have to have it spelt out - must be a hole in your knowledge somewhere.
The - whole - case - was - following - the - direction - of - cure. Got that? Don't understand? The nails were the last part of the upper extremities to manifest. You have a problem with that? Go read a bit more.
Oh - and by the way, she actually didn't have any misery - was very happy. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
Liz

[Chris_Gillen]

Hi Liz,
Apology accepted. Can you list the other medications that she was using simultaneously to your treatments, anti-depressants, BP medication, anti-dandruff or other medicated shampoos?
What were the Nat mur *characteristics* in the case that you actually repertorized with *from the first consultation*?
Chris.

[Shannon Nelson]

But Chris, do you feel that any of the non-homeopathic measures Liz mentioned would have explained either the very nice emotional amelioration or the good direction-of-cure relief of the eczema?

[Chris_Gillen]

I don't know Shannon, by that stage there appears to have been continuous daily dosing with Nat mur so it's no wonder the oil of primrose "helped", but there's a lot of homoeopathic-relevant detail missing in the account. That's why I asked those questions.
Chris

[Joy Lucas]

Your anti hahnemannian methods, your lack of respect for what he provided us with is striking. I cannot understand why you even wanted to try and be a homeopath. And I am curious who is/was teaching you this anti hahnemann, allopathic, more is more, maximum dose regime.

Direction of cure? Not always reliable in the 'from above down' process as I have seen, and I am sure others have also, that cortisone cream can do this. Eczema on the scalp, face or torso suppressed with the cream will readily break out elsewhere such as the feet and hands when the vital force is threatened. So that is curative as well is it?

It is also clear that you haven't been taught when to stop dosing. people can be well relieved and happy when their skin diseases have been suppressed, and can carry the internalised disease for several years until a much more serious diseased state takes shape.

You did make your allopathic methods entirely clear, thank you!

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/