Guess you've opted out of reading Hahnemann's work on susceptibility. The notion of beneficial bacteria is almost old fashioned now it has been around so long. You also might want to think about the so called food chain and the necessity of that.
As to the use of A/B - suppression, powerful drugs altering the disease sx (yes they will have a reaction on the bacteria, they mess with them just as most powerful allopathic drugs mess with much of our body and mind), utter confusion of the VF so that you see the medicine and not anything else, the passing of time and the body's own defences bring about cure. Take your pick. How do YOU explain it, now that you are promoting A/B's instead of homeopathy.
Joy
http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/
Have anyone found a genus of the Indian variety of Swine Flu ?
-
Soroush Ebrahimi
- Moderator
- Posts: 4510
- Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2002 11:00 pm
Re: Have anyone found a genus of the Indian variety of Swine Flu ?
Dear Joy
I do not think that is Shannon's position.
She was giving what I thought was an excellent example.
What she is saying is that someone's health is in danger (and I guess a particular bacteria is identified) and then the relevant anti-biotic is prescribed which effectively kills this particular bacteria (and a lot more besides) and as an immediate consequence the person's health immediately starts to improve, can we say that the bacteria were having a beneficial role?
In my view, bacteria in their own environment have a positive role - eg those found in the gut, or mouth.
But introduce the bacteria from the gut into the mouth, (or even in to the abdominal cavity - as happens with a burst appendix) and the story is quite different and life is rapidly endangered.
As I was trying to explain before, for most diseases, we need SUSCEPTIBILITY and also an AGENT (usually micro-organism).
Best wishes.
Soroush
________________________________
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joy Lucas
Sent: 12 August 2009 10:21
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Re: Have anyone found a genus of the Indian variety of Swine Flu ?
Guess you've opted out of reading Hahnemann's work on susceptibility. The notion of beneficial bacteria is almost old fashioned now it has been around so long. You also might want to think about the so called food chain and the necessity of that.
As to the use of A/B - suppression, powerful drugs altering the disease sx (yes they will have a reaction on the bacteria, they mess with them just as most powerful allopathic drugs mess with much of our body and mind), utter confusion of the VF so that you see the medicine and not anything else, the passing of time and the body's own defences bring about cure. Take your pick. How do YOU explain it, now that you are promoting A/B's instead of homeopathy.
Joy
http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/
I do not think that is Shannon's position.
She was giving what I thought was an excellent example.
What she is saying is that someone's health is in danger (and I guess a particular bacteria is identified) and then the relevant anti-biotic is prescribed which effectively kills this particular bacteria (and a lot more besides) and as an immediate consequence the person's health immediately starts to improve, can we say that the bacteria were having a beneficial role?
In my view, bacteria in their own environment have a positive role - eg those found in the gut, or mouth.
But introduce the bacteria from the gut into the mouth, (or even in to the abdominal cavity - as happens with a burst appendix) and the story is quite different and life is rapidly endangered.
As I was trying to explain before, for most diseases, we need SUSCEPTIBILITY and also an AGENT (usually micro-organism).
Best wishes.
Soroush
________________________________
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joy Lucas
Sent: 12 August 2009 10:21
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Re: Have anyone found a genus of the Indian variety of Swine Flu ?
Guess you've opted out of reading Hahnemann's work on susceptibility. The notion of beneficial bacteria is almost old fashioned now it has been around so long. You also might want to think about the so called food chain and the necessity of that.
As to the use of A/B - suppression, powerful drugs altering the disease sx (yes they will have a reaction on the bacteria, they mess with them just as most powerful allopathic drugs mess with much of our body and mind), utter confusion of the VF so that you see the medicine and not anything else, the passing of time and the body's own defences bring about cure. Take your pick. How do YOU explain it, now that you are promoting A/B's instead of homeopathy.
Joy
http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/
Re: Have anyone found a genus of the Indian variety of Swine Flu ?
She was asking 'what has happened' - and you can answer that from a number of different perspectives, whether you are a homeopath, a bacteriologist, any other 'ologist', an allopath, a drug company selling their wares, lots and lots of answers. Who cares what happens, as homeopaths we are concerned about the outcome and the effects of A/B and their supposed ability to 'return to a functional state' (whatever that is) and the rest is just guess work.
Joy
http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/
________________________________
Joy
http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/
________________________________
-
Liz Brynin
- Posts: 644
- Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Re: Have anyone found a genus of the Indian variety of Swine Flu ?
I don't think you can take Shannon's musings as to how antibiotics help in the short-term, which they indisputably do (if the right one is selected, of course) as generally meaning taht she is promoting the use of antibiotics!
Why do you jump to this conclusion?
Liz
Why do you jump to this conclusion?
Liz
-
Theresa Partington
- Posts: 431
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: Have anyone found a genus of the Indian variety of Swine Flu ?
I think this is quite a good analogy, Shannon, as analogies go (ie not all the way).
Rats and wolves are God's creatures trying to survive, part of an ecological balance, and no more intrinsically evil than anything else, but if we invite them into the house and leave food lying around/stick our fingers in their eyes they do become dangerous to health. So most of us do our best to reduce our susceptibility to them by organising our houses, villages etc sensibly.
Generally, in a similar way, bacteria (which can live independently, see below)* and viruses only bother us to the extent that we are susceptible and the long term solution is to reduce the susceptibility. With homeopathy we have a short term solution as well in the form of remedies forcing a 'stronger' similar disease on us to help us reject them. They still exist, though, and might well define the nature of the disease whilst not being solely responsible for its existence.
Rat catchers provide a quick fix for an over-run household and are part of the public health programme though not a long term solution unless changes are made and they could even provide a false sense of security to people who just keep calling them out and not learning the lesson.
We have had rat catchers in before at home and recently had a wasp nest removed (very reluctantly, I might add!).
As a homeopath, antibiotics would not be my first line of defence, in fact I can't remember when I last had them personally (22 years ago??) but falling short of perfection as a prescriber as i do occasionally there have been a few cases where patients have resorted them because I was not managing to arrest a detriorating condition and have lived to fight another day metaphorically and possibly literally, who knows? This does not mean I have given up homeopathy and am promoting antibiotics, in case that needs spelling out!
*An extract referring to longevity of anthrax bacterium
Anthrax is one of the best known agents of biological warfare - and possibly one of the most feared.
The bacterium occurs naturally, in low levels, in some animals, but when it is inhaled by humans in the form of spores it is deadly.
The killing power of anthrax was demonstrated by British scientists during the Second World War when it was released on a tiny Scottish island to wipe out a flock of sheep.
The island, Gruinard, just off the mainland, in Gruinard Bay, half way between Ullapool and Gairloch in the Highlands, was so contaminated that it was deemed out-of-bounds for almost
50 years
Theresa
Shannon wrote:
Hm, what to say...
Well, Sheri, how big does something have to be to "cause harm", hm?
Are parasites beneficial too?
How about rats and wolves?
Is it only the small things that (according to the theory you are
sharing) can never be harmful, or are mid-sized parasites and small to
large predators also never harmful? There's a whole lot of missing
logic in this argument...
So when antibiotics "cure" a life-threatening infection (and yes I
realize that "cure" is being used rather loosely here), what has
happened? Why did reducing the numbers of these "beneficial"
microorganisms have the effect of returning the person to a functional
state? How do you explain that?
Rats and wolves are God's creatures trying to survive, part of an ecological balance, and no more intrinsically evil than anything else, but if we invite them into the house and leave food lying around/stick our fingers in their eyes they do become dangerous to health. So most of us do our best to reduce our susceptibility to them by organising our houses, villages etc sensibly.
Generally, in a similar way, bacteria (which can live independently, see below)* and viruses only bother us to the extent that we are susceptible and the long term solution is to reduce the susceptibility. With homeopathy we have a short term solution as well in the form of remedies forcing a 'stronger' similar disease on us to help us reject them. They still exist, though, and might well define the nature of the disease whilst not being solely responsible for its existence.
Rat catchers provide a quick fix for an over-run household and are part of the public health programme though not a long term solution unless changes are made and they could even provide a false sense of security to people who just keep calling them out and not learning the lesson.
We have had rat catchers in before at home and recently had a wasp nest removed (very reluctantly, I might add!).
As a homeopath, antibiotics would not be my first line of defence, in fact I can't remember when I last had them personally (22 years ago??) but falling short of perfection as a prescriber as i do occasionally there have been a few cases where patients have resorted them because I was not managing to arrest a detriorating condition and have lived to fight another day metaphorically and possibly literally, who knows? This does not mean I have given up homeopathy and am promoting antibiotics, in case that needs spelling out!
*An extract referring to longevity of anthrax bacterium
Anthrax is one of the best known agents of biological warfare - and possibly one of the most feared.
The bacterium occurs naturally, in low levels, in some animals, but when it is inhaled by humans in the form of spores it is deadly.
The killing power of anthrax was demonstrated by British scientists during the Second World War when it was released on a tiny Scottish island to wipe out a flock of sheep.
The island, Gruinard, just off the mainland, in Gruinard Bay, half way between Ullapool and Gairloch in the Highlands, was so contaminated that it was deemed out-of-bounds for almost
50 years
Theresa
Shannon wrote:
Hm, what to say...
Well, Sheri, how big does something have to be to "cause harm", hm?
Are parasites beneficial too?
How about rats and wolves?
Is it only the small things that (according to the theory you are
sharing) can never be harmful, or are mid-sized parasites and small to
large predators also never harmful? There's a whole lot of missing
logic in this argument...
So when antibiotics "cure" a life-threatening infection (and yes I
realize that "cure" is being used rather loosely here), what has
happened? Why did reducing the numbers of these "beneficial"
microorganisms have the effect of returning the person to a functional
state? How do you explain that?
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Have anyone found a genus of the Indian variety of Swine Flu ?
Soroush wrote: "SUSCEPTIBILITY and also an AGENT" --
Yes, yes!! An excellent and pithy phrase.
And in all *other* areas, we recognize it as both a responsibility and a common sense measure to give due respect to each.
Yes, yes!! An excellent and pithy phrase.
And in all *other* areas, we recognize it as both a responsibility and a common sense measure to give due respect to each.
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Have anyone found a genus of the Indian variety of Swine Flu ?
Sure, and you can answer it from the standpoint of a preschooler: "God decided it wasn't her time to leave us." But is that useful in this context?
________________________________
________________________________
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Have anyone found a genus of the Indian variety of Swine Flu ?
Hi Theresa,
I agree with you 100%, and thanks for laying it out so clearly.
Best,
Shannon
I agree with you 100%, and thanks for laying it out so clearly.
Best,
Shannon
Re: Have anyone found a genus of the Indian variety of Swine Flu ?
Well it might be to some, who are you to say either which way.
Joy
http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/
Joy
http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Have anyone found a genus of the Indian variety of Swine Flu ?
Instead of playing word games, why not just answer my *question*?
If no microorganisms are ever harmful, then why is that that a chemical (or other treatment) whose *only* purpose (I do not say its only *effect*) is to kill of specific microorganisms, why do they serve the intended purpose, and in some cases make the difference between life and death?
Why does a person lacking an immune system die if exposed to a normal environment, yet do fine if kept in a sterile one?
If you don't answer these questions, then the only possible conclusion is that either you do not believe the assertion (that no microorganisms are ever harmful) either (in which case why have you posted it), or that you really don't understand either the assertion or the questions.
Would you like to answer, please?
Or simply retract the assertion?
Shannon
If no microorganisms are ever harmful, then why is that that a chemical (or other treatment) whose *only* purpose (I do not say its only *effect*) is to kill of specific microorganisms, why do they serve the intended purpose, and in some cases make the difference between life and death?
Why does a person lacking an immune system die if exposed to a normal environment, yet do fine if kept in a sterile one?
If you don't answer these questions, then the only possible conclusion is that either you do not believe the assertion (that no microorganisms are ever harmful) either (in which case why have you posted it), or that you really don't understand either the assertion or the questions.
Would you like to answer, please?
Or simply retract the assertion?
Shannon