Minutus

Hi,

I guess you are implying that these big teachers just bring their
bragging cases into books and lectures. So Sankaran's case (I wish I
remebered where I read it. I think in the Plants) where the heart was
not part of the remedy picture but the heart was cured because the
patient and remedy fit his "family/miasm" picture. That is not
exactly a standard repping procedure. Generally you try to have the
diseased location included especially if it is an organ as important
as the heart. I think he said, he tried the standard heart remedies
and they did not work. So he took a chance with mainly mentals.

I wish there was a book full of struggling case examples. Cases in
books are all so neat. Most of my cases don't look so neat. You
never see things like the patient didn't call you when she got an
aggravation because she came to cure x and she aggravated in her old
suppression which in her eyes was unrelated to x. So she took
pharmaceuticals. Then when you see her she leaks some little lyc.
remark and ahh, you understand the case. So you change the remedy but
you don't feel like you have very good control of the case. You are
just floundering along with whatever happens. That is never in the
books.

Best,
Ellen

That is why I like homeopathy. It is relatively free of cultural bias; it
doesn't judge what is "normal" or not. There is a rubric for everything,
even personality traits we consider to be "normal."

Helen

Hi Ellen,
They bring the cases the back up what they are trying to tell people.
I don't know whether that is bragging. It is misleading though. It
makes people think that generally for them cases are as "neat - as you
call it", which I very much doubt.
So Sankaran's case (I wish I
Yes - and reading between the lines or putting your attention to the
right place for the purpose, you learn that he did try the other way
first. Perhaps will do so again. Perhaps had done it before any number
of times and succeeded -- and so on.
I second that. Or rather: I wish there was a book, a seminar whatever,
where that came up in the course of a few days, a week, a few weeks
was told as it happened. Then the readers, listeners, students could
learn something about how to handle cases that are not so neat - and
get a true-to-life idea of homeopathic practce.

Cases in
Right!

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

Hi Luise

I think we at minutus are doing just that seminar. But, we could
share more of the struggle in addition to "what's the answer"
discussion. As you said, we don't know why Hahnemann did what he did,
and I believe he discouraged going beyond symptoms. Getting too
theoretical. Stay at the level of the homeopath struggling with a
case is fine for our discussions. Not cases that make a lecture
point, but cases that are just plain hard. Or that a specific
individual finds difficult.

I have been thinking a lot about cases and client types who I have
trouble dealing with. That is not a homeopathic problem, but it is a
problem of case taking. Or it can be, for example.

Best,
Ellen

I know of one really wonderful collection of case presentations that do
a lot of what you two are talking about (and I share your wish for
more!!), and that's the IFH's "Proceedings of the [1989 - 1996, I
think] Professional Case Conference: Small Remedies and Interesting
Cases." I love the format! Case presentation, then taking comments
from the audience of homeopaths, re questions, "what I'd have done",
suggested remedies, etc. Then the author's analysis, and what *they*
gave, and great explanations of "why", and what happened then. They're
wonderful!!! Sadly, they're also out of print, and I'd love to find
another conference being handled and written up in this way! Meantime,
if you can get any of these, I highly recommend 'em!

Shannon

pathology or disease symptoms need not be neglected. And none of the older homeopaths who actually treated grave and life threatening diseases neglected those... the approach in case taking should be disease symptoms + other symptoms as well... the remedy addresses the gestalt- but given the fact that the remedies were not pushed to the extent of producing serious pathology, using serious pathology might be counterproductive and take us away from the correct remedy-

Kent for all of his "consider the generals" approach has described a case of Eczema in lesser writings ( Mezereum) - he gives the list of symptoms that he used to arrive at that medicine- not one of them is a general and lots of them are common everyday garden eczema variety -

But remember that in those days they did not have such advanced diagnsotic aids and so their classification of diseases may not be truly reflective of current approaches...

Lilienthal and Neatby have cold applications > abdomen pain ( peritonitis) as Calc. I have used this same indication to cure ulcerative colitis.This might make this symptom of Calc a general key note one - so whether it is peritonitis, ulcerative colitis or whatever - cold applications > abdomen pain being Calc does not change... that is why too much stress on the diagnosis is not important...

Once treated a renal calculus with Carbo veg... not because Carbo veg had that condition but because of associated flatus characteristics...it brought the stone out... if we believe that disease is one but manifestations vary, then it can be approached by a pure mental approach ( probably Sankaran) , a pure physical approach ( probably the Burnetts or George Royals of the world) or a mixed approach ( which is much more common sensical) and still arrive at the same remedy...it is like the elephant and the 5 blind men
A case of prolapse disc ( what are the remedies given for this in modern repertories , any one can you please send it) treated with a few doses of Puls ( back pain eructation ) and cured. I did not even know if Puls or Sep had prolapse disc -but the symptom is covered and a good modality

Even common symptoms become valuable if they are very predominant... weakness in diarrhea is a common symptom - if there is no weakness then it might be Phos acid... but a patient had undue weakness with minimal diarrhea - cured with a single dose of Nux moschata 200... common symptom but patient stressed that a lot in the presentation...

if you have treated a lot of acute conditions this will come kind of natural - to observe the disease and at the same time prescribing on the associated symptoms... I cannot count the number of cases I have treated and cured with Phos and its desire for cold drinks... irrespective of what the associated condition... key notes are great in this and they work in lot of cases...
Believe what the patient says....and note down every inflection and every utterance...Most of my failures can be tracked to my case taking - not because we do not have medicines for that condition...

Case taking and observation are the keys-
I still remember the fidgety patient with hemorrhoids, cannot sit still because of the pain - lycopodium had him smiling soon ; (it has hemorrhoids < sitting) ; the patient belching every time pressing on her scapular region in the back ( Menyanthes given for some twitchings cured this symptom)
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Luise Kunkle wrote:

Hi,

Every case you mentioned in your very interesting description had a
symptom that was characteristic of a certain remedy. The common
symptom was accompanied by something that differentiated it from
other remedies. In other words, the common symptom was no longer so
common.

Best,
Ellen

Hi Ellen,
So then the issue is hypochondria, to be repped. It is the cause of
the suffering.
I think we are on the same page with it now.
Not nearly so bad. But an abused animal can show some very weird
stuff. Often fanatical fears of their own shadow for example (Bell
and so on, type mentals)

Otherwise sometimes you just see a bit of behavioral stuff that fits
the constitutional type.
Examples:

***
A horse who constantly kicks his new bucket over on purpose just to
"be funny".
Or swiping owner's hat and chewing it up or nipping her behind.
He was just "being an Ars" if you get the drift:-)

***
A cat who wants company and hugs constantly so he attacks as the
person is about to leave, or who puts them off their lap, to stop
them going.
Nasty bites ensue. (Jekyll and Hyde Ignatia type).

***
On the hypochondriac side there's this one:
Cat who was such a "spraycan" indoors the owner made him wear
studpants inside the house (waterproofs with maxipad inside) - and he
had to spend unsupervised time in an outside run. He hated the
studpants. Well he walked with bandylegs, high-stepping very
comically to get attention and sympathy (extremely exaggerated, not
just enough for the pants' space) - looked like he just rode a horse
too long, and was walking in molasses.
Later he managed to get the pants off, left them on the kitchen
counter (after spraying them thoroughly to make a point) , and came
into the living room STILL walking "bandy-legged in molasses" to
curry more sympathy. (A sulphur type).

In general animals are honest, at least to their ICT - and what they
show has a reason that is less hidden than I suspect is often so in
people.
Knowing the ICT is very helpful with them.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Well stated, and interesting array of keynotes.

G.H.G. Jahr who spent endless hours in S. Hahnemann's company probably has
provided one of the best and most coherent earliest explanations of how
pathognomic signs of disease (which he called "essential signs"), and
individualizing symptoms added in from the patient (which he called
"characteristic symptoms") constitute the totality of symptoms in
casetaking.
Unfortunately, some of Jahr's best works haven't yet been translated.

Anyone interested can access this link:
http://www.thehomeopath.org.uk/articles.html
and click on the article "Characteristic Signs in GHG Jahr" - written by Dr.
Steffen Rabe, and translated not too badly by Ralf Juetter.
In fact, all the articles are very good!

Chris

Hi Irene,
ITC? Whats that?
Best,
Ellen