Minutus

Even though this is something that I do not want to write about since
I feel that each of this is confusing on its own - here goes-

I would think that the secondary action is the compensation. I would
say decompensation occurs after the primary and secondary when the
system throws up its hands exhausted...

there are substances that cause a decrease in heart rate initially;
this is followed by an increase and in the long run once again the
heart rate decreases...

I would say such reactions depend on receptors involved, hormones and
other substances that are triggered and involved, composition of the
initial substance, its strength ( hence dilution), its normal half
life in the body, how it is metabolized, whether the metabolites
themselves are active or not, if active are they causing the same
symptoms or different and other such godly things

Looks like I am decompensating a little bit there...
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Ellen Madono" wrote:
over all
think about.
Madono"

Dear Shirley,

Thanks for composing in public (not at all compensated). What you say sounds good to me. I have see decompensation used when looking at cases. Mangialavorie used it. I don't know other instances when it is used. So he is not using it in the more exact physiological sense of your example, although I like the more exact example better. In remedies you see stages of deterioration. I think Phos has 4 stages according to Roger Morrison Desk top MM (1. great anxiety 2. free floating anxiety 3 hyper sensitive to others thus wants to be alone 4. Slow indifferent.. The totally exhausted phase, or the indifferent phase would be decompensated. Which of the healthier phases are compensated, I am not sure. I think it is a relative set of terms. Not intended for exact use. Maybe I am wrong.

Primary and Secondary reaction are much more physiological? More exact?

Best.
Ellen

I am not sure if you address me as Shirley- but anyway- most of the
discussion about primary and secondary reactions applies to acute
reactions to drugs, not all of them but mostly- and it is but in
rare situations that we have records of proving covering many years.

Compensation occurs over a longer period of time. It is kind of
similar to ego defenses in psychology- where you are successfully
covering up or coping with life and what it throws at you - to a
point. Then something happens that precipitates a breakdown - acute
ON chronic- it might be a severe viral illness, vaccine reaction,
mental shock or whatever- that throws the system into turmoil and
the patient ends up decompensated. It sets up your never been well
since scenario...but again over a period of time compensation is
built up but much more narrowly and at a lower level than before-
this time around it takes a smaller jolt to unbalance the system...

This is the Ogre philosophy all over - life is like onions- for each
layer you have compensation and decompensation - for me ultimately
there is no perfect healthy state- there is only a state of better
health than before and that is what homeopathy gives us- in the
above example finding the simillimum takes you to a layer above the
NBWS scenario but that still is a compensated person at that point,
Another medicine might come up then and that takes you to a higer
plane and so on....

and it is this core that people like Rajan Sankaran want to find
directly - the vital sensation for example- by passing the layered
approach but trying to get to the essence of the person-
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Ellen Madono"
wrote:
say
cases.
used. So
example,
see stages
Morrison
sensitive to
exhausted
the
relative
exact?

Hi Roger,
This sounds like what in Ardavan's theory is called the scondary
state.

Regards

Luise

Then something happens that precipitates a breakdown - acute

--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

Hi,

Sorry about the name mix up. From your email address, it must be Roger. Who knows what I was thinking.

The primary and secondary reaction comes from Aphorism 62 where "initial and counter-action" are being translated as the medical primary and secondary. Don't know if you agree with the translation. They aren't being used as limited to acute disease although certainly the acute situation is clearer (aphorism 253). Compensation and decompensation are originally psychological terms? Because homeopathy is holistic, I think they are being used to include physical reactions. You are right, the onion image is assumed. I don't think you have to assume there is a blow for blow compensation and then decompensation. Or a decomensation that comes out in symptoms. Organs like the liver and kidney can silently hold on to stress. They grow a tumor but show not symptoms. Some people also have such resilient personalities, too. You know those Kali's who never let you know what is going on.

Sankaran has a notion of passive and active states. I've seen it elsewhere too. Where?? It's a different but somehow related idea. The provings seem to capture the active reactions better than the passive ones. We notice them more easily clinically. I always think of his annacardium passive reaction case in Insight to Plants. As he demonstrates in cases, there are distinct passive reactions.

I am interested in these categories, because in reading cases and the MM, once in a while I catch symptoms in the MM or cases that illustrate each type. I should also be on the look out for, for example, passive aggravations.

Best,
Ellen

Hi,

Sorry about the name mix up. From your email address, it must be Roger. Who knows what I was thinking.

The primary and secondary reaction comes from Aphorism 62 where "initial and counter-action" are being translated as the medical primary and secondary. Don't know if you agree with the translation. They aren't being used as limited to acute disease although certainly the acute situation is clearer (aphorism 253). Compensation and decompensation are originally psychological terms? Because homeopathy is holistic, I think they are being used to include physical reactions. You are right, the onion image is assumed. I don't think you have to assume there is a blow for blow compensation and then decompensation. Or a decomensation that comes out in symptoms. Organs like the liver and kidney can silently hold on to stress. They grow a tumor but show not symptoms. Some people also have such resilient personalities, too. You know those Kali's who never let you know what is going on.

Sankaran has a notion of passive and active states. I've seen it elsewhere too. Where?? It's a different but somehow related idea. The provings seem to capture the active reactions better than the passive ones. We notice them more easily clinically. I always think of his annacardium passive reaction case in Insight to Plants. As he demonstrates in cases, there are distinct passive reactions.

I am interested in these categories, because in reading cases and the MM, once in a while I catch symptoms in the MM or cases that illustrate each type. I should also be on the look out for, for example, passive aggravations.

Best,
Ellen