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Re: The Fight Back for Homeopathy

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:15 pm
by Dale Moss
Delighted to see that Dr. Bhatia's proposal is drawing a positive response!
As a one-time lobbyist, may I make a suggestion? It is vital that we broaden our base of supporters by reaching out to other communities that potentially share our interests. The nature of those communities may vary depending upon where we live. In my part of the world, the northeast U.S., one community of shared interest is organic farmers. We're seeing a resurgence in small family farms here as well as conventional farmers reverting to organic practices, especially in dairy, because they can't make it by producing milk conventionally.
You can't raise animals organically if you use antibiotics, so a threat to homeopathy potentially affects the livelihoods of many farmers. I'm going to point this out in an article I plan to write for the Northeast Organic Farming Association.
There's been tremendous opposition across the U.S. to Bush's insane plan to microchip every livestock animal in the country. The efforts to crush homeopathy can be viewed as one more stage in agribusiness's master plan to wipe out organics and family farms.
Peace,
Dale

Re: The Fight Back for Homeopathy

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:49 am
by Luise Kunkle
Hi Manish,

First of all your workgroup has to say what they mean by "
homeopathy".

Sorry - but there is no way around it.

I, for one, e. g. cannot in Germany try and wake up the mixopaths, who
are the majority and blissfully snoring so far - try to motivate them
to join the fight - only to have them find out that their method is
not considered homeopathy. That would be absurd.

We just HAVE to have concrete and exact definition of our aims.

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

Re: The Fight Back for Homeopathy

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:51 am
by Shannon Nelson
*Or*, instead of a "concrete and exact definition", we could have an
"approximate and inclusive" definition, with stated central ideal(s)
but boundaries fuzzy enough to accommodate those who uphold the central
aim(s) but may not fully agree on every particular.
Shannon

Re: The Fight Back for Homeopathy

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:54 pm
by Luise Kunkle
Hi Shannon,
Well, my suggestion woud be anyway not to figh tfor "homeopathy" but
for something like "the use of potentized remedies", which would make
it clear to all concerned that indeed they ARE concerned.

The people using herbal medicine are not touched anyway. The use of
"fresh cells" and the like is a different topic anyway.

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

Re: The Fight Back for Homeopathy

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:16 pm
by muthu kumar
---
make
We can call it homeopathy itself... just because we had a discussion
of what a definition of homeopathy does not mean we have already
defined it as such.Discussions are supposed to bring out the views and
perspectives. The definition discussion started with a statement not
to dilute what Homeopathy is, since a loosey- goosey definition would
bring in all kinds of people in; quantity goes up but quality might
suffer. It is more of a personal opinion and a desire to see
homeopathy manage to keep some quality; to take it where it belongs-
as a medical field... Not to exclude anyone and look down upon
anyone's practice.

But right now - they are already in and I am not sure if we are
achieving anything by striving for some kind of sense and order and by
excluding anyone. Personally I think we have already lost that battle.
I am pragmatic to know that whatever we discuss in Minutus is not
going to make one iota of difference anywhere... Who am I or we, to
challenge gurus and circuit-chiefs or crowd pullers or centuries of
combination practice...

Only thing is when we do research to prove homeopathy, there we need
to say what kind of homeopathy is being tested at that point. We can
do it at that point when it happens.

We can make it an all-inclusive, mammoth effort -

Re: The Fight Back for Homeopathy

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:13 pm
by Luise Kunkle
Hi H.,

That's not my point.

If we call it homeopathy, the people using Heel products, the
Heilkunst, Sehgal people, the Anthrophosophs etc., i. e. all those
people that do not consider themselves "homeopaths" may not realize
that their methods are also threatened.

As they are now in Europe by the provision that the nosodes and some
animal substances (probably also sarcodes - I don't know) have to be
cooked before they can be processed and potentized.

No one seems to have realized yet what this means;-(

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

Re: The Fight Back for Homeopathy

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:20 pm
by Vera Resnick
There's so much discussion of a definition of homeopathy - is there any clear unambiguous consensus-based definition of allopathy? If this is what we're up against are we speaking the same language?
Vera
--
------------------------------------
Vera Resnick RCHom
Classical Homeopath
Alternative Medicine
054-4640736
www.freewebs.com/verahomeopath

Re: The Fight Back for Homeopathy

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:16 am
by muthu kumar
Allopathy does not need to introduce itself. Homeopathy needs to.
There are no lay allopaths. Allopathy is practised by doctors coming
out of approved institutes. There are stringent licensing exams all
over the world for its practice ( considering that the medicines are
dangerous it is definitely needed to be so).

Whereas, we cannot say Homeopaths are those coming out of
homeopathic colleges - because there is neither an approved list nor
an approved curriculum. All the definition discussion was to find a
consistent set of practices that would identify homeopathy. Apart
from the current brainflash from Luise " a practice using potentized
medicines " we could not come up with anything that could accomodate
all the current practices. If for identification of our modality all
we can say is we are the ones using potentized medicines - so be it.
-- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Vera Resnick"
wrote:
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Re: The Fight Back for Homeopathy

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:19 am
by muthu kumar
May be we should say Homeopaths and homeopathy-like-practices to
include everyone- but probably your label of 'use of potentized
remedies" suits the situation better

-- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Luise Kunkle wrote:
realize
some
be
tfor "homeopathy" but
discussion
views and
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would
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Re: The Fight Back for Homeopathy

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:26 am
by Vera Resnick
personally I like the one "we are the ones using this apparently off the wall method which in many cases is the only thing that works" - but I doubt anyone else would find it useful...
I don't think we should accept that allopathy does not need to introduce itself. There are certain definitions where a coherent definition of homeopathy could be placed opposite - and also certain definitions which can help us work towards standards of our own. Requiring that allopathy define itself I think is long overdue.
You have mentioned doctors coming out of approved institutes and refer to stringent licensing exams all over the world. Are the world-wide standards all the same? Which issues do these standards address? Is there a basic level of knowledge required from all practitioners whatever field of medicine they practice? You have already stated that allopathy uses potentially dangerous drugs - is there a clear worldwide standard for use of the drugs that can be defined? I think part of the first step towards a useful definition of homeopathy is to realize that in allopathy the definitions are not quite so broad and consensual as they would like to have us believe. e.g. drugs have to be tested and approved before use. But how is it that the same drug can be considered dangerous in the US and banned and approved and actively promoted in Europe? So drug approval before use cannot be considered a world wide consensual definition as there are different approval bodies.
I'm also sure everyone has experienced MDs with vastly different levels of knowledge - in some cases shockingly low levels of knowledge, including little knowledge or understanding of the drugs being prescribed, and in some cases knowledge so great that the MD has a good understanding of alternative modalities as well and also in depth knowledge of the drugs and their contraindications with ordinary lifestyle elements - e.g. an MD who has a full understanding of nutrition and checks before prescribing.
I also ask whether the purpose of treatment is a relevant part of the definition. Are we coming to cure, to palliate, to ease pain, to treat the patient using any of the tools we have? What is the allopath's purpose of treatment?
Is allopathic treatment intended to be supportive, preventive, invasive, palliative, or fully curative?
I realise these questions may seem trite, perhaps even foolish to some. But I'm a homeopath - I'm used to people thinking I'm asking stupid questions (patient: it hurts, me: what does that feel like?, patient: you know, pain, me: what kind of pain, patient: don't you understand, it hurts! etc.), it adds moral fibre...
The points that I'm trying to make are:
1. Allopathy isn't the monolith it appears to be. It is true that we are fighting for survival against great financial interests, as Hahnemann did in his day, and no definition will help in the "root" of the fight, the essence if you will. To fight against the companies and their incredible and ever-increasing hold over entire continents requires a great degree of strategy and skill, and a deep understanding of those financial interests and their ramifications. Definitions are really not the issue in this part of the arena - strongly backed "champions" of homeopathy are - perhaps Dana Ulman's recent book is a step in the right direction for this purpose.
2. We are losing the PR war IMHO not only because we lack consensual definition, but also because we are not focused, not speaking the language, and, very importantly, not coordinated and not clear about the goals of the fight. What do we want here - to be allowed to practice officially, quietly and in peace? To "show them" that they are worthless and homeopathy is all? To fight "Big Pharma"? Or as one list member here wrote a couple of years ago and I never forgot it, to remain under the radar as much as possible, because otherwise we expose ourselves to regulation by the ignorant?
3. having a better definition of allopathy for ourselves can also help us sharpen our focus. Do we want to vaunt homeopathy or discredit allopathy?
It is true that everyone practises differently, especially since when we have a patient we feel we are there to help, if pure homeopathy is not helping we try to add some other practice that won't conflict. Everyone has their own red lines of what they will or will not do - but even words of encouragement have medicinal value...But to accept a very limiting definition is in itself problematic.
My purpose - although coming late to this discussion - is to try to move the thinking beyond the well worn and deepening rut it seems to be in. It does not help in any battle for the general to examine the dimensions of his own navel and try to define it. At some point he has to raise his gaze and examine the terrain and the "enemy", to decide on tactics and strategy, to find who his allies are, or to be blown off the field. Hahnemann survived, homeopathy survived, because Hahnemann found a protector.
Quite honestly, although much of the discussion has seemed very scholarly, I have not found it interesting. If a practising, active and teaching homeopath doesn't find a discussion on our very survival interesting (and I suspect there are many others who have felt the same way), our chances in any PR, internal or external, are dim at the very most.
Regards to all,
Vera
(snip)

--
------------------------------------
Vera Resnick RCHom
Classical Homeopath
Alternative Medicine
054-4640736
www.freewebs.com/verahomeopath