Minutus

Pauline Ashford wrote:

I have not seen need of calendula topically to regranulate a puncture
wound as they have a small opening which closes readily. I use Calend
200c by mouth however to prevent infection, and continue it till the
would is healed not just externally (as it closes outside before it is
healed insuide) but internally.
(My prior answer addressed only the aspect of surface treatment
which advocated wetting to prevent air entry.)

I add in pyrogenium 200C if the treatment was late starting and there is
already pus present. However in my view, if the wound has pus it is
abscessed and you then treat it as an abscess and not just a puncture
wound - it needs a different approach.
With a puncture wound handled immediately properly, there will be no
infection.

Hence I do not use the "keep it wet and open" approach as an open
wound allows *in* more debris (and no a gauze which is wet is NOT
sterile), and the calend 200C works well to prevent infection when taken
by mouth, in my experience.
With damaged surface I like hypercal or at least calendula
externally, but I do not use it with deep puncture wounds with a tiny
readily closed entry.

flap type wound - it is the WETNESS of the dressing that keeps the wound
discharging and the Calendula is a good general antiseptic at the outer
level. It is the constant discharging from the wound that keeps the
tissue in the wound fairly clean>>

To me if it is discharging it is not clean, it is draining. The internal
approach *prevents* the development of pus and there is no draining needed.
It's different with a dirty wound like an abscess that has developed
over time. There is no pus right after a deep wound. It takes about a
day (sometimes more) to develop enough infection top generate pus.



I agree - there is no point in a deep wound trying to keep it open -
rather handle the fact that it is a puncture wound and not a surface
one. Hence I use Calend internally, and I like 200C for this where with
an abscess that is open and draining I'd use tincture made into a lotion.

>

There is no oxygenation from extracellular fluid - oxygen is carried in
the red blood cells. You can not prevent tetanus bacterial growth from
"oxygenated extracellular fluid". The area inside a puncture wound is
anaerobic and the bacteria will make toxin unless you have Ledum
preventing it.

>

The immune system does not help worth beans in tetanus if the bacterium
gets a chance to grow. The bacteria make a *toxin* (tetanus toxin) and
the immune system does nothing with the toxin, it's not designed to
fight toxins. Cytokines will try to help with production of macrocytes
to engulf bacteria, but it's a danagerous bacteria and usually makes
dangerous toxin before that.

scab and close off. This is dangerous if tetnus is present.>

It's going to be closed anyway - it needs to be handled as such.
By definition a puncture wound is closed.

>

Not with Ledum and Hypericum used. You can switch it all off in 2 days.



How?
(any why)
You can not cause continued discharge of a puncture wound without
significantly increasing tissue damage and giving the bacteria even more
damaged tissue on which to readily grow and make toxin. So while I
understand your theory it is impracticable. A puncture wound is just
that - it's important to *assume* the tetanus bacteria are in there
(till proved otherwise) and growing (till proved otherwise) and to
handle with appropriate remedy.
Any attempt after initial blood flow - to make the wound "continue to
discharge" is going to make things worse, not better.



How?
You can not expel any exotoxin nor can you reduce the bacterial growth
by artificially inducing the wound to "drain".

BEtter to assume the fact - it is a fact - thaty a puncture wound is
anaerobic and needsd ledum hypericum, and calend internally.

>

Our bodies are too slow for tetanus. We need remedy.

>

It's THEIR risk in that case.
Not OUR risk.
No offence - but I do not see how anyone making their own decision with
too little information is anyone else's legal risk.
The general population knows full well that tetanus shots are the
allopathic norm. What they do NOT know is what constitutes the
homeopathy norm.

>

Indeed but it is *their* decision.

>

True - but that too is the decision of the individual and does not
preclude our discussion of what WE feel is appropriate and safer.

>

The risk from tetanus is there or not there - no matter what the item is
which causes the puncture wound. Since Clostridium tetani is a normal
soil organism, the existence of soil in the area is the most relevant
factor - and it would be a mistake to think that time in the elements
has anything to do with it - you can equally get tetanus from a brand
new serrated brad. The only way rust would be relevant is in being able
to hold more soil than a smooth nail. But since it takes one bacterium
only to cause harm, I feel it is safer to ALWAYS handle a puncture wound
with the assumption that there IS tetanus involved.

The risk is not time-related and has nothing to do with being in the
elements.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Sarvadaman Oberoi wrote:

Any bandage or gauze or other permeable device that is wet is not sterile.
Bacteria swim through the fluid.
Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

None of us suggested that the wet dressing is totally sterile hence the calendula in the fluid wetting it - I have found in my experience that many deep puncture wounds especially those that are caused by old and dirty/rusty/etc things generally leave pieces of crap in the wound (like mine full of bits of rust, grass etc that came out over time - like still got bits out 2 weeks after the injury - which was about 2" deep and close to the bone) and yes I consider that any deep wound should be treated with Ledum or Hypericum for tetnus and one must consider that it is possibly in each wound - but unless one wants to give mutiple remedies or combos in the beginning I have found the regime I outline covers for all posiblities and seems to prevent abscessing and a totally anaerobic environment in the wound. Also I know as any of us who studied to be a homeopath know that the red blood cells carry oxygen around the body - but it is the ECF that carries it to the cells - any basic anatomy and physiology book will show you that. The RBCs dont leave the blood stream only the Oxygen they carry does and as not every cell is in contact with a blood vessel it gets there by diffusion along a gradient. Anyway each to their own I was only sharing what I have found to work. regards Pauline
________________________________

>Irene wrote.

I don't agree with that. I would use one remedy or the other
And if you are giving 200c of anything, by dosing every 15 or 30 minutes
you very well could be stopping the action of the remedy by giving another
remedy
And all remedies should be given in water so you can raise the potency for
each subsequet dose.
Exactly

Thanks
Sheri
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours (worldwide)
Vaccination Information & Choice Network
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm
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>
dressing is essential as is keeping the wound completely covered wet for
cutting off air. I do hope that for legal and safety reasons the tetanus
shots if due were given.

Sorry this is not true - you do not want to cut off air.
Tetanus grows in an anaerobic environment - an environment with no air
Just let it bleed well, wash with soapy water.

Tetanus shots should never be given for legal and safety reasons. If you
are advising your patients that you are contributing to their further
injury. Of course you can't say "DON'T give tetanus vaccine' or you could
be charged with practicing medicine without a license in the US (not sure
about the laws in India). But you can give them information on the dangers
of the tetanus vaccine so they can make their own decision. Or you can say
what you would do.

Sarvadaman Oberoi, if you don't know the dangers of tetanus vaccine and the
reality of tetanus, then I encourage you to learn before injuring more people
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/tetanus.htm

Tetanus vaccine doesn't work #1
Tetanus vaccine is extremely reactive - I know many who have chronic cases
of tetanus-like illness after having the vaccine. None of those I know
have chosen homeopathic treatment, so they still are ill. But there is no
guarantee we can reverse it as we all know.

See my webpages for the below article and more
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/tetanus.htm

Tetanus Vaccination by Dr Mendelsohn MD

Tetanus Vaccination by Dr Mendelsohn MD (The People’s Doctor Newsletter
1976-1988)

You have every right to closely question me on the tetanus vaccine, since
that was the last vaccine I abandoned. It wasn’t hard for me to give up
vaccines for whooping cough, measles, and rubella because of their
disabling and sometimes deadly side effects. The mumps vaccine, a
high—risk, low—benefit product, struck me and plenty of other doctors as
silly from the moment it was introduced. Arguments for the diphtheria
vaccine were vitiated by epidemics during the past 15 years which showed
the same death rate and the same severity of illness in those who were
vaccinated vs. those who were not vaccinated. As for smallpox, even the
government finally gave up that vaccine in 1970, and I gave up on the polio
vaccine when Jonas Salk showed that the best way to catch polio in the
United States was to be near a child who recently had taken the Sabin
vaccine. But the tetanus vaccine exercised a hold on me for a much longer
time.

As you point out, I gave up belief in this vaccine in stages. For a while,
I still held onto the notion that farm families and people who work around
stables should continue to take tetanus shots. But in spite of my early
indoctrination with fear of "rusty nails," in recent years, I have
developed a greater fear of the hypodermic needle. My reasons are:

1) Scientific evidence shows that too—frequent tetanus boosters actually
may interfere with the immune reaction.

2) There has been a gradual retreat of even the most conservative
authorities from giving tetanus boosters every one year to every two years
to every five years to every 10 years (as now recommended by the American
Academy of Pediatrics), and according to some, every 20 years. All these
numbers are based on guesses rather than on hard scientific evidence.

3) There has been a growing recognition that no controlled scientific study
(in which half the patients were given the vaccine and the other half were
given injections of sterile water) has ever been carried out to prove the
safety and effectiveness of the tetanus vaccine. Evidence for the vaccine
comes from epidemiologic studies which are by nature controversial and
which do not satisfy the criteria for scientific proof.

4) The tetanus vaccine over the decades has been progressively weakened in
order to reduce the considerable reaction (fever and swelling) it used to
cause. Accompanying this reduction in reactivity has been a concomitant
reduction in antigenicity (the ability to confer protection). Therefore,
there is a good chance that today’s tetanus vaccine is about as effective
as tap water.

5) Until the last few years, government statistics admitted that 40 percent
of the child population of the U.S. was not immunized. For all those
decades, where were the tetanus cases from all those rusty nails?

6) There now exists a growing theoretical concern which links immunizations
to the huge increase in recent decades of auto—immune diseases, e.g.,
rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, lupus erythematosus, lymphoma,
and leukemia. In one case, Guillain—Barre paralysis from swine flu vaccine,
the relationship turned out to be more than just theoretical.

In preparing my courtroom testimony on behalf of a child who allegedly was
brain—damaged as a result of the DPT (diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus)
vaccine, I reviewed the prescribing information (package insert) for the
Connaught Laboratories product which was administered to this child. The
1975 and.1977 package insert information which measured seven—and—a—half
inches long listed three scientific references in support of the
indications, contraindications, warnings, cautions, and adverse reactions
to this vaccine. By 1978, the length of the insert had grown to 13 1/2
inches, and the number of scientific references had increased to 11. By
1980, the package insert was 18 inches long, and the references numbered
14. Of those newly—added references, seven (three from U.S. medical
journals and four from foreign medical journals) dealt specifically with
reactions to the tetanus DPT portion of the (toxoid) vaccine.

An article in the Archives of Neurology (1972) described brachial plexus
neuropathy (which can lead to paralysis of the arm) prom tetanus toxoi Four
patients who received only tetanus toxoid noticed the onset of limb weak
ness from six to 21 days after the inoculation. A 1966 article published in
the Journal of the American Medical Association reports the first case of
"Peripheral Neuropathy .following Tetanus Toxoid Administration." A
23—year— old white medical student received an injection of tetanus toxoid
into his rightupper arm after an abrasion of the right knee while playing
tennis. Several hours later, he developed a wrist drop of his right hand.
He later suffered from complete motor and sensory paralysis over the
distribution of the right radial nerve (one of the major nerves innervating
the arm and hand) One month later, no residual motor or sensory deficit
could be found.

Reference is made to an article in the Journal of Neurology, 1977, entitled
"Unusual Neurological Complication following Tetanus Toxoid
Administration." The author reports a 36—year—old female who received
tetatus toxoid in her left upper arm following a wound to her finger. Five
days later, she noticed a weakness first of the right, and then of the left
and later of both legs. She complained of dizziness, instability, lethargy,
chest discomfort, difficulty in swallowing, and inarticulate speech. S
staggered when she walked, and she could take only a few steps. Her EEG
showed some abnormalities. After a month, she was discharged without
neurologic disturbance, but she continued to feel weak and anxious.
Examinations during the next 11 months showed continued emotional
instability and some paresthesias (numbness and tingling) in the
extremities. The medical diagnosis was "a rapidly progressing neuropathy
with involvement of cranial nerves, myelopathy, and encephalopathy."

The Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology, 1973, carried an article
entitled "Hypersensitivity to Tetanus Toxoid," and in a volume entitled
"Proceedings of the II International Conference on Tetanus" (published by
Hans Huber, Bern, Switzerland, 1967), an article appeared entitled
"Clinical Reactions to Tetanus Toxoid."

A 44—year—old article in the Journal of the American Medical Association
(1940) was entitled "Allergy Induced by Immunization with Tetanus Toxoid."
That same year, an article in the British Medical Journal reported on
"Anaphylaxis (a form of shock) following Administration of Tetanus Toxoid."
In 1969, a German medical journal reported a case of paralysis of the
recurrent laryngeal nerve (the nerve to the voicebox) after a booster
injection of tetanus toxoid. The patient developed hoarseness and was
unable to speak loudly, but the nerve paralysis subsided completely after
approximately two months.

Should your doctor reassure you that tetanus vaccine is completely safe, or
that "the benefits outweigh the risks," or that you should have a shot
"just in case," why not share these citations with him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours (worldwide)
Vaccination Information & Choice Network
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm
homeopathycures@tesco.net
ONLINE Introduction to Homeopathy Classes - next one May 9, 2007
ONLINE Introduction to Vaccine Dangers Classes - next ones fall 2007
ONLINE Intro to Diseases - Risk, Reality & Alternative Treatment next ones
fall 2007
Voicemail US 530-740-0561 UK phone from US 011-44-1874-624-936

>
satisfactory in a deep puncture or flap type wound - it is the WETNESS of
the dressing that keeps the wound discharging and the Calendula is a good
general antiseptic at the outer level. It is the constant discharging from
the wound that keeps the tissue in the wound fairly clean, having it open
to air does not increase the oxygenation inside the deep wound it is
keeping the wound empty of accumulated pus and debris that allows
oxygenation from the movement of fresh extracellular fluid (plus immune
products) of the more healthy tissues surrounding the interior of the
wound, into the area.
and close off. This is dangerous if tetnus is present. Remember tetnus can
appear up to 50 days (average is 5-10 days) after innoculation of the wound
with the clostridium tetanii. By keeping the wound discharging the level of
exposure to the exotoxin is much less and therefore risk lower while our
bodies respond along with the help of the 'best fit' remedy which is
usually from those suggested.

I think none of the above is necessary

realise that some people who join in our lists may not have the knowledge
to correctly chose a remedy or know how to follow it thru - and they must
make their decisions in light of this and we must watch our legal standing
in some countries on this. It takes courage to step outside that which is
purported to be 'in our best interests' and in some cases must only be
undertaken if the alternative is well understood and able to be followed
thru.

But no matter what their knowledge level, the tetanus vaccine does NOT
prevent tetanus and is highly reactive.
I would suggest you rarely would even need homeopathy.
that is of worry BUT it does give you indication that whatever it is has
been out in the elements for sometime and its risk of being cantaminated
are therefore higher!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours (worldwide)
Vaccination Information & Choice Network
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm
homeopathycures@tesco.net
ONLINE Introduction to Homeopathy Classes - next one May 9, 2007
ONLINE Introduction to Vaccine Dangers Classes - next ones fall 2007
ONLINE Intro to Diseases - Risk, Reality & Alternative Treatment next ones
fall 2007
Voicemail US 530-740-0561 UK phone from US 011-44-1874-624-936

>
permits limited exchange of sterile gases through the gauze including
oxygen so this should be acceptable in practice it works very well.

And where is the proof of that?
Sterile gases?

You want the wound to get oxygen.
Sheri
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours (worldwide)
Vaccination Information & Choice Network
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm
homeopathycures@tesco.net
ONLINE Introduction to Homeopathy Classes - next one May 9, 2007
ONLINE Introduction to Vaccine Dangers Classes - next ones fall 2007
ONLINE Intro to Diseases - Risk, Reality & Alternative Treatment next ones
fall 2007
Voicemail US 530-740-0561 UK phone from US 011-44-1874-624-936

Calendula "ointment" (calendula tincture in water) is said to maintain
sterility (tho described as "bacteriostatic" rather than
"antibiotic")... Is even recommended (anyone remember--was it Marjorie
Blackie??) treatment for severe and extensive burns, as well as other
wounds...
Shannon

Hi Irene and Pauline,
Great discussion, thank you to both of you! Lots of food for thought.
Just a couple of comments: Irene, altho it's true there is no *law*
about tetanus vaccine here, I would be really, really, really, really
hesitant to *advise* anyone to skip tetanus shot. What I *would* feel
fine about, is handing them (if they haven't already got it) tons of
information on the subject of vaccines, as well as tons of information
on tetanus, and let them draw their own conclusion. That way, the next
time some nice ER nurse asks when their last tetanus shot was, their
answer will be based on *their* choice and understanding, not something
like (however proudly and confidently stated) "my homeopath said I
didn't need one." That would put one on a likely collision course with
the "practicing medicine without a license" issue, etc., etc.! So--I
agree with the conclusion, but would be *very* careful about the method
of giving that advice!
Shannon

Nice article, Sheri!
Also, some might be interested in this detailed article on tetanus that
Will Taylor sent some years back. It's full of statistics and other
details that appeal to some types of minds. (like mine!)
Shannon

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:04:10 -0400
To: "homeopathy@lyghtforce.com"
From: will taylor

Worldwide, there are an estimated 300,000 - 500,000 cases of tetanus
per year. The tetanus bacillus survives best in soil rich with organic
matter in hot, damp climates, and is more prevalent in densely
populated regions. It is rare in polar regions and relatively uncommon
in the northern temperate zones.

There are less than 100 documented cases of tetanus in the U.S.
annually. The majority of U.S. cases are in persons over 50, and only
5% of U.S. cases are in persons under 20 years old (i.e., there are
less than 5 cases per year in children and adolescents in the U.S.).
The highest incidence in the U.S. is among the poor in the southern
states. Necrotic skin ulcers, burns, surgical wounds and IV drug use
may create anaerobic lesions that invite a disproportionate number of
tetanus cases; but it may also complicate simple lacerations and
puncture wounds, dental infection, otitis media, miscarriage and
abortion, and infection of the umbilical stump of newborns.

In the years just prior to widespread vaccination, there were approx.
500 tetanus cases in the U.S. per year. Some of the subsequent
decrease can be attributed to vaccination, and some to reduced exposure
and continued improvements in wound care. About 87% of U.S. children
have received a primary series of tetanus vaccination, and temporary
immunity is confered transplacentally to newborns from vaccine-immune
mothers. Adults often do not receive the CDC (U.S. Centers for Disease
Control) recommended tetanus booster vaccinations, and 1/3 to 2/3 of
adults 60 or older lack circulating tetanus antitoxin antibody.

The case-fatality rate of tetanus world-wide is 45%, and in the U.S. is
about 30% for persons over 50, and less than 5% in persons under 50.
When symptoms occur within 2-3 days of injury, the mortality rate nears
100%. In 20% of morbid cases, death is attributable to the the direct
effects of tetanus toxin, through cardiovascular and pulmonary events.
Pneumonia related to aspiration and atelectasis is a common late
complication, and is the major immediate cause of mortality following
tetanus. Most survivors recover completely within 4 weeks. Natural
infection typically does not confer immunity.

Conventional medical management of tetanus will reflect the severity of
the case, but involves both conservative/supportive measures that even
Hahnemann or Ernest Farrington would not frown at, including
intensive-care-unit nursing and observation, debridement & drainage of
the originating wound, IV fluid & electrolyte management, avoidance of
respiratory secretion aspiration, tracheostomy in more severe cases and
bedside preparation for this in milder cases. I think it's important
to realize that conventional medical care in most parts of the world
monopolizes access to this level of supportive care, with the allopathy
as a side-dish. In addition to these supportive measures, allopathic
pharmacologic management involves administration of human or equine
tetanus immune globulin, mild sedation and pharmacologic management of
muscle spasm. These measures do reduce the case-fatality ratio.

Those less-than-100 cases per year (happily) don't give many of us
experience with this illness. I've seen only one case, in a burn-unit
patient, way back in my residency days. Even back when there were 500
cases/year in the U.S., and in regions where this is a more prevalent
disease, it is unlikely that any individual will accumulate any real
experience in treating it.

Read the Materia Medica on Ledum and on Hypericum in J.T. Kent, M.L.
Tyler, and J.H. Clarke. I don't find in the literature a plethora of
cured tetanus cases, but there is mention of a few. An anamnesis of
the collective pathological symptoms of tetanus certainly does bring up
Ledum and Hypericum as front-runners in the treatment of individual
cases of this disease. I would be hesitant to tackle it without
recourse to the supportive measures of hospital managment.

Will Taylor, MD Homoeopathy Website at:
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