Minutus

As one muses and wonders over the energy of all this, the
suspiciousness of Lachesis and Cenchis comes to mind ??also in
Vipera. ???Hyo. As Robyn said he may have had a flash of
insight. In both Allopathic and Alternate one can save a lot of
trouble if one establishes a relationship and is willing to discuss
issues. I do hope resolution for the boy takes place, Jean
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Todd-
Your son's case seems to be a fairly recent happening ( about a year)
and so should not take more than a couple of months in an ideal
prescribing situation to show some good improvement if not complete
cure...

but there are other issues for you with this doctor as well- so it is
up to you to decide if you are comfortable dealing with him over a
period of time... I have seen remarkable cut-throats being very good
prescribers...integrity and effectiveness do not go hand-in-hand
necessarily-

You were looking for a "classical" homeopath and there are different
definitions for this term even within this list- he seems to have
given you a single medicine and that makes him a classical by some
definitions-

His approach might be unorthodox ( not necessarily non-classical) and
then there is no universally approved standard method in present day
homeopathy

- No one can comment on Vipera being right or not since no one here
has seen your son- Even if the doctor had spent 3 hours with you
taking the case there is no guarantee that the medicine would be the
right one ( otherwise there would not be so much case discussion in
this forum).The alcohol does not seem to be a lot and so I think it is
probably OK.
I would suggest waiting for a while to see if the prescription is
effective - if it is, obviously he is good , nothing succeeds like
success and all that jazz- if not pay him another visit to find out
what the explanation is and usually the excuses show what kind of
prescriber he is-

But if you are very much concerned about his behavior, integrity and
practice issues- then look for someone else - since any failure in
this would immediately cause you to question his integrity and this
does not bode well for a therapeutic relationship-
-- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "dadloveshisboy" wrote:
may recall this
practitioner I saw, which
integrity/appropriateness of the
doctor asked few
the thread above. I
withholding began, 2) is he on
plan. These are his stated
homeopathy and I was told I'd
thought that would be
the remedy I was told
people without
visit and remedy
the remedy would be
he'll be charging my
that shady and
dosage is specified. The
(Lexington Avenue,
to 1/2 hour to
bottle holds 3
in the am and from
bottle #3 in the am and
succession through the 20
practices of this doctor/
remedy. Should I just
case-taking and
son's case?

This is not homeopathic but if you take a really hot rag rinse it out, put
it in a cup and put the cup over the ear. It works every time I have used
it or recommended it. I have terrible problems with my ears and flying, I
have to do this on the plane because of the discomfort. Kathy
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Kathleen Ramsey
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 6:01 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Minutus] First visit to homeopath leaves me uneasy - please
advise
I live and practice in a very rural area and I have charged as little as
$20.00, I am definitely not charging what I am worth, but what my clients
can afford. Kathy

1-866-404-7111From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com
]
On Behalf Of Homeopathinmn@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 5:47 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] First visit to homeopath leaves me uneasy - please
advise

Costs of the initial appointment are all over the map, from $125 (for a not
very good practitioner, she knows what she is worth) up to $450 for a DO
(like
an MD) in a large metro area. And remedies can go from $8 to $25 per
bottle.
Chances are you were charged for the consultation because your insurance
won't pay for homeopathy. I know MDs who keep their homeopathy completely
separate from their allopathic practice. They may be covered by insurance in

their allopathic practice, but they may not submit claims for homeopathy.
Having said the above, the casetaking doesn't sound like it was very
thorough, which it should be for the best homeopathy.
I doubt you will be able to get your money back, he provided the services
and sent you away with a remedy. Just because you were not impressed with
his
style wouldn't be grounds for a refund.
But it wouldn't hurt to discuss your concerns with this practitioner.
Best wishes,
Marybeth

In a message dated 1/20/2007 4:30:41 P.M. Central Standard Time,
kathy@intellipute.com
writes:

Ok hang on a minute. Did he give you 20 bottles of the same remedy in
different successions? Did he explain why he picked this remedy. I agree
the case taking was short. 20 bottles of remedy can be costly if you think
8 bucks a bottle? Most Homeopaths I know charge around 150.00 for the case
taking and remedy, but that is normally not 20 bottles worth and this is
just an average, I have seen all the way up to 250.00 for the initial case
taking. Did he ask anything about emotional problems? Did you do your
homework on the homeopath? He did prepare it, he would have started with
one and created the rest of the steps. His credentials seem like he should
be knowledgeable. You can email his/her name off list and I will see if I
can find anything about the background. Did you fill out a lengthy
questionnaire? Mine is about 10 pages. We need to know a little more
before jumping ship. Thanks Kathy

From: minutus@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com
] On
Behalf Of
dadloveshisboy
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 3:00 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [Minutus] First visit to homeopath leaves me uneasy - please advise

I saw a homeopath today for my son's stool withholding issues. Some may
recall this
thread:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/mi ... sage/42457

The visit left me feeling very unsettled about the integrity of the
practitioner I saw, which
leaves me wondering how much faith to have in the integrity/appropriateness
of the
remedy.

1. The case-taking session was all of about 10 minutes long. The doctor
asked few
questions and got no more information from me than was provided in the
thread above. I
recall all of three questions: 1) any stool issues before the withholding
began, 2) is he on
any medications for this now, 3) how is his temperament in general.

That was the extent of his case taking.

2. Fees. I chose this doctor because he's an MD in my insurance plan. These
are his stated
credentials: MD ABFP DHt MFHom CCH

When I made the appointment I specified it was for classical homeopathy and
I was told I'd
have to pay only the $30 co-pay and the cost of the remedy. I thought that
would be
great, I'd probably get out for $50-60 total.

I paid the $30 co-pay before seeing the doctor and when I was given the
remedy I was told
to pay an additional $130. I asked why so much and was told that for people
without
insurance the normal charge is $160 which includes the cost of the visit and
remedy
inclusive, but since I had already paid the $30 co-pay the cost of the
remedy would be
$130.

So not only do I feel I may have been over charged, I also think he'll be
charging my
insurance company company too - essentially double billing. I find that
shady and
unscrupulous.

3. The remedy given is VIPERA in a 1% ethanol/water solution. No dosage is
specified. The
label seems to indicate they are from Golden Dawn Hom, 112 Lex. (Lexington
Avenue,
NYC, I presume.) Interesting since he told me it would take him up to 1/2
hour to
"prepare" the remedy.

I was given 20 bottles which constitutes a 30 days supply. Each bottle holds
3
tablespoons. I was told on day 1 to give a tablespoon from bottle #1 in the
am and from
bottle #2 in the pm. On day two I should give a tablespoon from bottle #3 in
the am and
#4 in the PM. Day 3 I give from bottles #5 & #6, and so forth in succession
through the 20
bottles, then repeat the succession from bottle #1.

Does VIPERA sound like a good match for my sons condition?

Are two doses a day of alcohol solutions sound for a 4 year old?

Is this 20 bottle succession a common approach?

Is $130 a fair price for the remedy alone?

Unfortunately, the limited case-taking and confusing billing practices of
this doctor/
homeopath leave me feeling suspect about everything, including the remedy.
Should I just
return the remedy for a refund and start again with someone new, or
case-taking and
billing aside, does his remedy appear viable/appropriate for my son's case?

Todd

Marybeth Buchele HMC/PCH*
Professional Homeopath
Offices in St. Louis Park, MN
952-933-6068
and
Menomonie, WI
715-231-6068
"Natural Health for Mind and Body"
_www.healthnaturally.biz_ (http://www.healthnaturally.biz/)

*Homeopathic Master Clinician/Proficient in Classical Homeopathy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Todd

I'm sorry to hear that you had an uncomfortable first experience.
There is no way of knowing whether the homeopath is good or not
without waiting to see the results of his prescription. I spend 2-3
hours with a new patient, however I know some brilliant homeopaths who
are able to make a good prescription in only a few minutes. There is
no time factor that makes a homeopath classical, it is rather whether
or not they take into account the totality of symptoms and give one
remedy to match that state.

None of us can claim to say whether or not Vipera is the correct
remedy without taking your son's case. If you have concerns about the
money or time spent, I would speak to the homeopath about that. I
would prefer that my patients come to speak to me directly about any
problems that they are having.I am afraid that by taking too many
people's remedy advice from this forum, it may confuse you more and
end up trying different remedies and messing up the case. Some of the
best homeopaths are not necessarily those who have the best bed side
manner or social skills, however if this is important to you, then try
to find someone you are more comfortable with. However now that you've
gone through the process and spent the money, I would at least give it
a try and see how your son does. If you don't get results, find
another homeopath.

Gabrielle
Gabrielle
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "hahnemannian2002"
wrote:

yes, american fee schedules are fairly high. in nyc i have been quoted up
to $700.00 for an intake.
but i would say that $200 is on the lower end of the scale. if i took
cases pro bono i would not
have enough time for all the cases that would come my way. but health
insurance being what it
is here, i find most people reluctant to spend cash out of pocket for
health care of any sort!

practitioners of all protocols expect to earn income on the higher end of
the scale and charge
accordings. but in all fairness, rents and overhead can be quite high, too.

tanya
advise
his remains
need to take the
tenesmus.
you have described as your
devoted to the visit ---
said, that led them to make
appropriate, all they can say is,
taken the case.
the repertory for
lasted for 2 years so
prescription on clinical
longer have faith in that
charge from 300 -600 dollars
clients if i charged that
they would come up with a
4:46 PM
and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations
regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any
document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this
website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out
of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site
or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential,
incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever
caused.
your setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to receive a
single daily digest.

Maybe- placebo.
Krystina

Dear Robyn

I had not come across VIPERA before and so wanted to share its MM.

It is possible to diagnose a case in a few minutes, but this needs to be
checked out with repertorisation.
(Unless some one is a walking Materia Medica.)
It is so easy to be fooled by similar remedies so as to mis-prescribed.

The dispensation of the remedies is something unusual - and why is there not
a requirement for reporting back by the patient.

However, as "the proof of the pudding is in the eating", one way we can know
whether this prescription is homoeopathic is for the patient to take the
remedy.

The other way is for a competent Homoeopath to retake the case and confirm
whether the correct remedy had been selected.
Rgds
Soroush

Just want to thank everyone for their efforts.

I also want to note that around here $160 is probably a fair price for a consultation and
remedy. The other guy I was thinking to go to charges $250 for a first consultation. But he
did say that consultation would take over an hour, which this certainly did not.

It wasn't the total charge that bothered me so much as paying a co-pay and then adjusting
the cost of the remedy to match so that I pay his going rate in spite of him also taking my
insurance. I pay $7,000 per year to insure my son, so I then prefer to find doctors in the
plan to reduce further out of pocket costs. My insurance does cover "alternative medicine"
like chiropractors and accupuncturists, so it's not out of the question to get alternative
care within the system.

Perhaps if when I booked the appointment I was told it would cost $160 with or without
insurance I'd have felt better about it. At least I'd have known what I was signing on for. If I
did I probably would have gone to the other guy - my first choice.

Anyway...

Someone off-list asked if these were LM dosages and the bottles say they are. Sorry I
didn't mention that, I don't even know what an LM dosage is.

Kathy stated "[if] he did prepare it, he would have started with
one and created the rest of the steps."

He did go into a locked room and I heard a mechanical vibrating, rattling sound.

But if he prepared them himself why do they carry the "Golden Dawn" label - and is anyone
familiar with this brand?

Jean asked "if there was any snake energy here, brooding and sudden letting go."

He can "snap" temperamentally. Sometimes I'm waiting to say the wrong thing, or to
deprive him of that something that will unleash his fury. It doesn't usually last too long,
but it is a sudden lash and strike.

The case-taking WAS very short. No questionnaires in addition to the short discussion, but
the boy was with me, so maybe he saw something in his manner...

Still not sure what I'll do. Probably chew it over today and decide tomorrow.

Todd
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "dadloveshisboy" wrote:
which
I
on
stated
I'd
told
The
20
just

In response to the registrar for the society of most reliable well
priced DOCTORS of Homeopathy!! I have to say......

I charge $90 on the first consultation& $40 for follow ups. I do
though have minimal overheads. I am competant and a good homeopath.
I will spend 2hours on a consult and upwards of an hour after the
consultation working on the case.

I think that making rash judgements, like the cheaper the homeopath
the better the homeopath is unfair and not wise as you cannot ever
presume to know peoples thoughts and intentions without knowing
them. I on the other hand recognise that everyone is different and
has a different reason for what they charge. Personally I charge
what I consider fair. I used to work as a radiographer and my
husband is a vehicle technician and I realy don't see why I should
be getting paid more per hour than those two jobs would earn me,
especially when what I do is a pleasure and a gift.

I do not have a problem with people who charge more and don't want
to be judged by what I charge. My conscience is my judge. The
price you pay I guess is though a good indication of how much time
and effort will be spent on your case. But take into consideration
other factors, like do they have high overheads, are they a simple
non materialistic person and so on.

Deb Wall Bsc(Hons) D.I.Hom Pract.
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Homeopathinmn@... wrote:
(for a not
for a DO (like
per
insurance
completely
insurance in
homeopathy.
very
services
impressed with his
practitioner.
remedy in
remedy. I agree
you think
the case
this is
initial case
do your
started with
he should
see if I
lengthy
more
Behalf Of
please advise
Some may
the
integrity/appropriateness
doctor
in the
withholding
general.
plan. These
homeopathy and
thought that
given the
for people
the visit and
of the
he'll be
find that
dosage is
(Lexington
up to 1/2
bottle holds
#1 in the
bottle #3 in
succession
practices of
the remedy.
or
son's case?

It's far too soon to pronounce on the appropriateness of this doctor's remedy choice, although his method of dosing is odd. But I sure don't like this business of charging for the remedy so much for the remedy rather than being upfront initially about the cost of the visit. Personally, I don't charge extra for remedies; that's included in the price of the consultation. I remember what it was like to take my son to see his homeopath years ago: the price of the consultation was reasonable; the price of the remedies he concocted was not. That's where he made his money.

Choosing any doctor (or practitioner) primarily because he's in one's insurance plan is a mistake. You have to do your homework first. One good place to start is with the National Center for Homeopathy's local study groups (see http://www.homeopathic.org/studyg.htm).

If a study group is in your area or state, they're good places to vet any homeopath you're considering. Credentials alone are not enough; you want to know something about the track record, manner, and integrity of anyone you're considering using.

Peace,
Cinnabar