Minutus

Thanks Shannon,

I will check into this possibility. I do know that it has raised my
HDL about a point a month so they are doing something. The brand I am
currently using is 1000 mg wild fish (cold water, of course).

Linda
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Robert & Shannon Nelson
wrote:
specific
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How much do you know about thyroid? I ask because doctors and
especially endocrinologists have been indoctrinated in the fact that
if a drug isn't new and improved (specifically synthetic) then it
isn't any good. They tend to prescribe the modern versions more than
the older versions because "they are better," when most of the time
the older versions are actually better assuming the patient hasn't
become immune to the benefits. Another reason that they don't like to
prescribe Armour is due to the fact that they claim 'everyone' is
perfectly capable of converting T4 to T3.

Armour has been around for about 100 years and still works. My
primary doc made the statement that he didn't have any patients on
Armour. I feel like telling him there is aways a first time, besides
I don't believe in following the crowd just because it is the thing
to do. I will tell you one thing if I ever get it back, they will
have to pry it from my cold dead fingers to get it away from me
again. I don't know if I will be able to hold out for 6 weeks I just
may end up in his office within the next week if these symptoms
(especially the fatigue and general acheyness, almost like I am
coming down with something when I know better) don't ease up by the
end of the week.

I also think the endo took an instant dislike to me because I had the
audacity to take such an old thyroid drug and had several printouts
about information pertaining to the new recommended ranges along with
a couple of pages with symptoms and comments that I had made. He
works and teaches at the local medical college. I like his
personality but I feel that he was totally bummed about me taking
Armour, he was not about to do ANYTHING for me as long as I was
taking the Armour. Not a good thing! (Grin! but I sure don't feel it!)

I will step off my soapbox now, or at least until the next time.

Linda
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Robert & Shannon Nelson
wrote:
if

>
and

Oh Boy, now this could be a problem! Not the filtering part I already
do that, but staying away from the fluoride completely. Especially
since I work for a utility as a water treatment operator and it is
part of my responsibility to make sure that the fluoride continues to
flow. Right now we are feeding the powdered form because our liquid
system is down for repairs and upgrades. What's really bad is the fact
that this is a new plant, about a year old and we are already having
all these issues.

I have done quite a bit of research on fluoride and would stop feeding
it if I could. I wish I'd been quick on my comments because when I was
talking to the endo last week and was telling him about my job and he
made a comment about it, I would have looked him straight in the eyes
and told him something to the effect that I am one of those
individuals that is slowly poisoning him and possibly causing his
bones to become brittle by adding fluoride to the water he drinks just
to see what he would say about it. It sure would have been fun to see
a doctor squirm a bit.

Upper management is looking at me real hard right now and I sure don't
need to be taking any or very much time off, which means I may end up
in my pcp's office if I don't start to feel slightly better soon and I
mean soon. I'm not used to feeling extreme fatigue, this is fairly new
to me.

are
symptoms

I started to take a Vit B complex because my MCV was running high
normal, felt it couldn't hurt to try. I've been having some tingling
in my feet and legs so when my last metabolic panel showed that my
potassium was 0.2 from the bottom of the range I started to watch make
sure I get plenty of potassium every day. Still have some tingling but
I don't think it is quite as bad as it was.

I take a calcium / magnesium supplement because I am post menopausal
and have never been on any form of HRT. Well I take that back the
family doc before my current one took over the practice had placed me
on a low dose birthcontrol pill, but I started to have some abnormal
spotting. Turned out I had ovarian cysts, always wondered why I had so
much discomfort during the middle of my cycle. If my magnesium is low
would that also cause the tingling I have been experiencing?

Thanks for all your help.

Linda

Well, moderate I suppose. My mother has severe thyroid problems (did
fine on Synthroid, but now on Armour which is also working fine), so
I've read up some.
Yup, I've learned that!
Ah, and from what I read, that is not true.

Good for you. My mother also had a hard time finding a doctor willing
to work with Armour, but I didn't hear why; I think basically just
unfamiliarity.
Ouch... Are you going to try out the list of things Gail sent? I
would LOVE to hear if any of that is helpful to you, as it all sounds
so reasonable!

Yeah, some of them hate it when patients try to take initiative... Yuk!
Good luck, and let us know how it goes!
Shannon

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Good news--good luck! Just be aware that the vitamin A (likewise for
vitamin D, also very important) is an entirely separate nutrient, and
works on entirely different mechanisms, than the EFAs. It would be
worth knowing what the content is of what you're taking!
Shannon
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Hi Linda,
Interesting! I wonder whether any others you work with are having
thyroid issues? (Well, those are not uncommon anyway...) Do you know
whether you are actually absorbing any from the process--it is all
well-contained, or not?
( Or, he may have bought into the "fluoride is good for your
teeth" bit...
For some people B complex can be a bit tricky, because the body uses
certain B vitamins in certain proportions, which can vary from person
to person, and which seems to not be very well taken into account by
the available formulas.

But, some thoughts... Sticking my finger in the "adrenal fatigue"
socket --adrenals and thyroid are interrelated (tho I am not
well versed on the particulars), and I have read / been told that you
cannot effectively heal the thyroid unless also working to heal the
adrenals. (Can anyone add to this?) AND I have found that if the
adrenals are struggling, certain nutrients *have* to be taken in an
appropriate balance, and inappropriately balanced B complex can
actually make the situation worse instead of better. Here's something
that *might* help the extreme fatigue (or it might be irrelevant to
your situation; but possibly worth a try?).

Look at your B complex.
Look at the amounts per dose of B1, B2, B6, pantothenic acid, and C. A
formula that I'd consider ideal for adrenal support would contain, per
tablet:
- equal amounts of B1, B2, and B6 (in the range of 5-10 mg each, per
tablet/capsule)
- 100 times that much pantothenic acid
- 1,000 that much of vitamin C.

Very few formulas contain those proportions, but it's not hard to find
one that fits the first part (equal amts, and in 5-10 mg amt), buy
separate pantothenic acid (tablets are easiest, because you can break
them if needed) and separate vitamin C (with bioflavinoids). Then
mix-and-match to get the right proportions.
with a wide range of the other Bs too (choline, inositol, folic acid
and some others are also important, but I haven't found need to focus
on them?), and perhaps herbs and other nutrients too--I find that some
work better for me than others, but by far the biggest factor is to get
the balance of the Bs right. This might not be a big factor for some
people, but for others it is a make-or-break difference!

If you're very depleted it could take several days to really get
"caught up", but if not *so* depleted, you might feel a distinct energy
lift relatively quickly--certainly by the end of the day, taking
however many doses you seem to need (usually 2 to 4, spread thru the
day).
What's MCV?
Tingling... I didn't know potassium did that?

calcium/magnesium is another where for some people the *balance* is
very critical. The "standard" has been to take two parts calcium for
each one part magnesium. For some people this is the right balance,
but for others it should be different--for some, in fact, flipped, for
two parts magnesium to each one part calcium. It's worth experimenting
to see what balance you *feel* best with. Using my family as example
again, my son and I both need the two-parts-magnesium ratio (usually).
If we take overmuch calcium, it makes the situation far
worse--sleeplessness, restlessness, irritability, more or less. Then
once we add more magnesium, within about half an hour things settle.
Not that I know of, but I'm not certain. Magnesium is more "famous"
for twitching and restlessness. I know at least a couple of the B
deficiencies can cause tingling. I recall that B-12 deficiency is one,
and that deficiency can be very serious. Folic acid I think is
another, and taking lots of that can *mask* the B12 deficiency, while
permitting the pathology to continue to worsen... Maybe you should ask
your doc to check your levels of B-12 and folic acid? Or ask if he has
any other thoughts about the tingling?
Best,
Shannon

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Hi Linda,

Sounds like you're in a bit of tight corner at the moment. Maybe
it's time to go doctor shopping, these guys are,in part, looking
after their own belief systems, and you are more important than
that.
Certainly you could make the best out of the situation by
documenting your symptoms and experimenting with them - What makes
you better or worse, heat, cold, fresh air, etc? how does the time
of day affect you? Any food cravings? How does your mood change -
what thoughts do you have that you wouldn't have when on the Armour?
etc, etc, You probably know all the things that will make a really
good homoeopathic individualisation possible, and then find an
experienced homoeopath to help you. With luck you may be able to say
goodbye to your doctor.
Potassium is really important, without good levels T3 interaction
within the cell is impaired. In low thyroid tissue levels of
potassium can below and calcium high. The thyroid provides the brake
for calcium levels. So it may be better to supplement with potassium
and magnesiun and let the parathyroids sort out the calcium levels.
Interestingly B12 and Magnesium supplementation can resolve heel
spurs which are usually seen to be a problem with calcium
metabolism. Tingling and numbness in hands and feet can occur with
low B12. An indicator of low B12, even before there are obvious
symptoms, is a lack of moons on the fingernails.
The Vit A thing is interesting - the yellow colour of a hypothyroid
person is because of an inability to convert betacarotene in the
liver to Vit A. Longitudinal ridges on the nails show low Vit A.
With all these complicating factors to manage you probably need to
look for the maintaining cause - and as you say the exposure to
fluoride is a worry.
Foods that compromise thyroid - Soy, liver, avocado, walnuts,
cabbage family, low protein, foods high in copper and phyto
oestrogens, trans-fatty acids and sugars.
Foods that help - Red meat, chicken, fish, coconut and coconut oil,
salt, citrus, foods high in zinc and molybdemun.
Sunlight can raise T4, and we need it for Vit D.
For me all this information has been important, yet I am aware that
it is all about managing the problem rather than curing the cause -
even better is to seek homoeopathic cure.

Gail A.

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" wrote:
Armour?

Thank you for these suggestions, I will start to keep a journal or
try to do a better job of it anyway.

say

Know of a good homeopath in the south (US)? I have started to really
consider this route because I am tried of being bounced from dr to dr
and that is what my pcp is doing to me. There is an internal medicine
doc I am trying to get some info without much success as of yet.

brake
potassium

Now all of this is very interesting. My potassium was hitting the
bottom of the range, but my calcium seems to be in the middle of the
range maybe because I am supplementing. I really need to find a doc
who understands all of this, but it is interesting what you are
saying about the T3. Wonder if that is part of my problem.

This really is beginning to sound similar.
As long as the fluoride we are using is the liquid, it is contained
but the dry you have to practically suit up to keep from inhaling it.
I have actually been having the guys load it so this is not too
serious a problem.
Yep familiar with most of these.
One final thing I have to be careful of is foods high in iron due to
the one allele for this condition and that includes things like red
meat, avoiding lots of Vit C with meals containing iron, I think you
get the picture. I can get pretty complicated especially since almost
everything we eat is fortified with iron.

Linda

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Robert & Shannon Nelson
wrote:

I know, but the docs and especially the endos don't seem to
understand this.

sounds

Yes but I haven't had time to digest everything yet. This weekend is
my weekend off, 3 whole days to look over all of this and try to
figure out the best way to go with all of this

Linda

Hi Linda,
What state and city are you in?
For a starting point you might look at www.homeopathy-cures.com, click
the Find-A-Homeopath "button" in left column.
Best,
Shannon
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