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Re: Obsessed about disease

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:59 pm
by Rochelle Marsden
Have you thought of looking at Calc Ars as it is one of the most anxious Rx in the MM.

Rochelle
Registered Homeopath, EFT(Advanced)Practitioner
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk

Re: Obsessed about disease

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:10 pm
by myirishenergy
AH, did you really! Climb a mountain in the Himalayas??? How Exciting..
You say you were in a Psor state at that time due to your mixed
feelings of total despair and great irresolution.

I appreciate all the work you did for me to help this person. I use
the Repertorium Universale. Don't have the Complete.
I've got to admit I've never used Med before so I didn't look outside
my "box" and here it is so plain and clear.

How much emphasis do you put on the persons body shape/how they're
built etc? Any books you would recommed for that?
Thanks,
Emily

Re: Obsessed about disease

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:11 am
by AH
Hi Emily,

on 7/23/06 8:45 AM, myirishenergy at myirishenergy@yahoo.com wrote:

It all started with the death of our Nephew that he was close to, he
drank allot and was depressed for a year. Since then all this.
Thanks for all your help
Emily

((( What remedy is cardinal in NBWS grief or loss...

Ignatia is one of them:
IGN(Ruddock) --"... also some of the symptoms of Hypochondriasis in the male
sex..."

IGN(Mangialavori) -- MIND, ANXIETY, hypochondriacal

IGNComplete 2000:
AILMENTS FROM: DEATH: CHILD, OF A. {0> 1> 11} [54]
Ailments from: death: confrontation of, from, in children. {0> 7> 14} [186]
AILMENTS FROM: DEATH: PARENTS OR FRIENDS, OF. {0> 1> 14} [122]

Ah, for the sometimes interlocutory and "appendage" info on which may hinge
a case. :-))

As you know, Emily, when a potentially significant trauma could be
overriding, we sometimes have what is akin to a lingering acute case -- or
"layer". This relates to a portion of the miasmatic disposition of the
case -- where for example, a grief -- has caused a breakdown in a portion
of the constitution. This area has already been weakened by burden of
foreign vital taint (inheritance of nonphysical miasm born of infectious
disease in the parental lineage) (cf Organon 148, sixth edition, the
Chronic Diseases). The hypochondriacal nervous weakness of your client may
point to a nervous system remedy, or an "ailments from loss" remedy despite
the underlying remedy for the whole functional case. Just as an example,
Ignatia creates a state which is similar to a nervous grief.

on 7/23/06 8:45 AM, myirishenergy at myirishenergy@yahoo.com wrote:
Nerves are his worse enemy. Stomach twitches, nervous cough, I feel
the vertigo is caused from nerves.

VERTIGO; NERVOUS origin, of (29) : aeth., ambr., anil., arg-n., arn., bell.,
bism., bor., caj., calc., camph., cham., chin., chin-s., cina, coca, cocc.,
gels., hep., ign., kali-p., mosch., nux-v., phos., puls., rhus-t., ther.,
zinc., zinc-p.

Cross the above with

Grief/loss/death [3] ailments: acon., aeth., allox.231, alum.231, alum-p.,
am-m.54, ambr., aml-n., anac.54, ang., ant-c.54, apis, aq-mar.231, aq-tun.,
arg., arg-n.231, arn., ars.156, art-v., 2aur.8, aur-ar.231, aur-m.160,
aur-m-n.231, aur-s., bani-c., bar-s., bell., bry., cadm-s., cael., calc.56,
2calc-p.8, calc-s.231, calc-sil.231, camph.219, caps.231, carb-an.35,
carc.231, caust.8, cench.231, cham., chin.22, cimic.220, cist.1088, clem.54,
coca8, cocc.223, coff.187, colch.8, coloc., con.8, corv-c., crat.188,
crot-c., crot-h.231, cupr.2061, cycl.8, cypr., dig., dros., epip.231,
3Gels.54, graph.8, hell.35, hura231, hyos., 2ign.8, ip.231, kali-br.188,
kali-c., kali-fcy., kali-p., lac-c., lac-d.231, lac-h., lach.22, lact.231,
laur.231, lepi.231, lim-b-c., lob.231, lob-c.54, lob-s., lyc.156, lyss.231,
mag-c.231, mangi., med., meli.231, merc., mez., mur-ac., naja188, nat-c.,
nat-m.118, nit-ac., nuph.231, nux-m.8, nux-v.156, op.54, orni., ox-ac.231,
paull., peg-h., pers., petr., 3Ph-ac.8, phos.1101, phys.231, pic-ac.,
plat.188, plat-m.231, psor.139, puls.1101, pyrus, rat.231, rhod.2191,
rhus-t.231, rhus-v.231, rob.231, sac-alb.231, samb., sars., sep., seq-s.,
sil.223, sol-o., spig., stann., staph.187, stram.188, sulph., tab.231,
tarent.54, thuj., tub., uran-n.188, ust., verat.231, viol-o., zinc.188

Yields:
Elimination: aeth., ambr., arg-n., arn., bell., calc., camph., cham., chin.,
coca, cocc., Gels., ign., kali-p., nux-v., phos., puls., rhus-t., zinc.
Dorothy Shepherd:

Ignatia was proved in Hahnemann's days, and it was he who pointed out the
characteristics of this great nerve remedy. Long before psychology was
thought of, the mental peculiarity or psychology of each remedy, proved on
healthy persons, was studied and carefully docketed, and ''nerves'' were
treated successfully by Hahnemann and his followers long before the
psychologists retrieved the different types of nervous temperaments from the
rubbish heap of so - called imaginary ailments.

Nux-v is also a nervous system rx, also having strychnine as a contributing
component. Note also the other remedies in that elimination Ambr, Arg-n,
Gels, phos, zinc and zinc compounds and all the others.

==========
On the other hand, the remedy for the functional "whole case" may apply
and this may or may not be Ignatia or a layer. To keep in mind is that
Ignatia (cardinal remedy for loss of loved one to end of marriage, death,
etc) is often the "acute" of Nat-m. Since you have introduced a possible
etiological angle of this case -- one should attempt to rule out or confirm
Nat-m, if ign seems apparent as acute, and Phos has been "grokked" as
possible chronic to the point of having been given. If the real situation
is one of nat-m, Ign may provide some relief but not encompass what must be
cured. On the other hand, we could give ignatia first, and it might
destroy a portion of the disease, and then we follow based on the remaining
symptom complex, and/or with a remedy like nat-m that follows well. Or, if
Ign is not sufficiently matching any portion of the miasmatic load so as to
attain destructive resonance of it -- it may do nothing in the case.

Among many other rx, Nat-m is a commonly seen complement of Phos, as another
important tidbit for of looking at the case via etiology as a peculiar. You
have posited the wholistic functional "picture" of Phos a la
Tyler/Kent/Gestalt/Essence. A well known "complementary remedy" can
sometimes become a leg of a stool of a prescrip.

In the same associative manner, sometimes using a groupings system will
afford us the chair we are seeking. For example, furniture can sometimes
be constructed from (Sankaran method) a triangulation of clear Kingdom,
miasm, and vital issue associated with a taxonomic group (when case is
clearly of animal, plant, fungi, pathogen (nosode)). Or (Scholten method)
Series, stage crosshairs of the periodic chart (when rx is clearly an
element or compound). Such associative methods extend the materia medica,
with the added benefit of adding to materia medica of remedies without
provings (most of even the classical materia medica) via cured symptoms of
clinical cases.

These other aids in "fine carpentry" are variables by association that may
not relate directly to specific manifestations of the client. Stepping back
a bit from the details, one can sometimes elucidate a pattern or connection
to a known pattern by alternate means. There are many pathways to a remedy
(Remedy Relationships, Sankaran system, Scholten system, Organ remedies, and
a dozen others) -- when the kitchen sink of case symptoms doesn't reveal a
gestalt well known in the classical literature in terms of one-to-one
matching of peculiars. Etiology or NBWS is one of those dozen or so other
methods.

One usually takes care in evaluating such a "large" remedy as nat-m, which
can have almost any sx under the sun (Nat-m as a wholism is also worse
under that sun). However, Nat-m is well represented in these rubrics of
symptoms of your case which are reasonably peculiar:

VERTIGO; CHRONIC (4) : nat-m., nux-v., Phos., sec.

MIND; ANXIETY; hypochondriacal (60) : acon., Agar., agn., aloe, alum.,
am-c., anac., arg-n., arn., ars., asaf., asar., bar-c., bell., bry., calad.,
calc., calc-sil., cann-i., canth., caust., cham., con., cupr., dros.,
ferr-p., graph., grat., hyos., ign., iod., kali-ar., kali-c., kali-chl.,
kali-p., lach., lob., lyc., m-arct., med., mosch., nat-c., Nat-m., nit-ac.,
nux-v., ol-an., ox-ac., ph-ac., Phos., plat., psor., puls., raph., rhus-t.,
sep., squil., staph., sulph., Syph., valer.

(Bold type in Complete 2000 are Agar (twitching), Nat-m, Phos, Syph)
These plus "ailments from grief" (a "genius" of Nat-m as a remedy); and
Nat-m as a frequent complement of Phos -- could provide a serviceable stool
for nat-m -- if Ign is not the rx first, or another nervous system rx with
hypochondriasis is not indicated and confirmable.
If he has suppressed his grief as nat-m will invariably do instead of being
able to process it -- the symptoms of the nervous system represent that
somatization to his miasmatically-burdened weakest link. The nonphysical
"quantum electrodynamic organizing field" or "etheric double" of his nervous
system containing inimical foreign "cells" of such "spirit" with
incompatible programming -- in theory are influencing the physical nervous
cells and subsystem of the body (brain, spinal trunk, abdominal plexus).
This bodily subsystem has gone "haywire" with the hypochondriasis and
vertigo of your client's chief complaints.

We could say that the energetic parasites with favorite target of nerve
cells, fibers, plexi, and synaptic connections have weakened that subsystem
in your client. This weak link is susceptible to emotional trauma in the
pattern wholism we know of as Ignatia, nat-m, and dozens of other remedies
in the rubric Ailments from .. Grief/Loss/Death of others, etc. When that
trauma comes, it further stresses that weak link, causing first functional
derangement, and sooner or later, breakdown of physical cells, (organic
pathology).

Nat-m and Ignatia are the classical stalwarts of situations of unexpressed
grief.

MIND; GRIEF; general; silent (26) : am-m., anthr., apis, aq-mar., aur-ar.,
carc., coff., coloc., corv-c., crot-c., cycl., gels., Ign., indg., ip.,
kali-fcy., lach., lap-gr-m., lyc., NAT-M., nux-v., peti., ph-ac., puls.,
sac-l., sal-ac.

Grief [2] suppress/suppressed: acon.5, aloe221, alum.5, am-m., ant-c.223,
anthr.187, ars.5, aur.5, aur-ar., aur-s., bell.5, bry.5, caj., cham.5,
chin., cocc.5, coloc.5, con., cycl.22, gels.5, hura, hyos.5, 3Ign.5,
kali-caust., lach.161, lyc.5, nat-c.5, nat-m.5, nux-m., nux-v.5, op.15,
ph-ac.5, phos.5, plat.5, puls.5, rhus-t., seq-s.230, staph.5, thuj.233,
ust., verat.5, zinc.5

Suppressed grief is stored in the lungs (which can be noticed "overflowing"
in the short-of-breath "respiratory" sobbing of Ignatia).:

===============
Of course, there could be some other overarching simillimum which will
"bullseye" the situation -- and which may be some other gestalt which
depends on the peculiars of the *rest of the case* and may not be in these
specific rubrics per se:

Ailments [2] death [4]
child/friend/family/parent/nephew/brother/sister/loved: alum.231, ambr.,
arg-n.231, ars., aur.35, 2aur-m-n.231, calc., calc-s.231, 2calc-sil.231,
caust., cench.231, gels., ign., 2kali-br.231, lac-c., 2lac-d.231, lac-h.,
lach., 3Lact.231, 3Laur.231, 2lepi.231, lim-b-c., lob.231, lyc., nat-m.231,
nit-ac., nux-m.231, nux-v., 3Op.231, 3Ox-ac.231, ph-ac., phys.231, plat.,
2plat-m.231, 3Rat.231, rhod., rhus-t.231, 2sac-alb.231, staph.231,
stram.231, sulph., verat.231, viol-o.

Complete 2000
MIND; AILMENTS from; death; child, of a (12) : calc., caust., gels., Ign.,
kali-br., lach., nat-m., nux-v., ph-ac., plat., staph., sulph.
MIND; AILMENTS from; death; confrontation of, from, in children (21) :
acon., ambr., ars., calc., calc-sil., caps., carc., caust., gels., ign.,
kali-br., lach., nat-m., nit-ac., nux-v., op., ph-ac., plat., staph.,
sulph., verat.
MIND; AILMENTS from; death; husband, of (1) : lyc.
MIND; AILMENTS from; death; one death after another (1) : ambr.
MIND; AILMENTS from; death; parents or friends, of (15) : ambr., ars.,
calc., Caust., IGN., kali-br., lac-c., lac-h., lim-b-c., lyc., nit-ac.,
nux-v., plat., rhod., staph.
However, a clear etiological factor assumes cardinal position in the symptom
hierarchy in almost any case. When a case seems to be "all over the map"
or a well chosen rx does not act, an etiology, or some other key factor
could well be a good bellwether and anchoring sx in the case.

In such a situation, a complement (in this case of the apparent overarching
Phos if it does not act) is one way to turn. Phos is not a remedy as
*pointed* toward ailments from grief or the nervous system as some others --
when that etiology is overriding. You may well be right that Phos is
present in he case, but perhaps there is a translucent onion "layer" of
another pattern of miasm over it which involves the nervous system and
specifically the part of it which can process grief of loss of loved one.
While (perhaps) the phos is *visible*, the relevant area of miasmatic
burden --and thus susceptibility to breakdown from trauma emotional or
otherwise--may require another rx given at this time.

Ign and or Nat-m may be one place to look, based on the case given. But esp
if he is a hot pt or chilly worse heat; you may wish to differentiate nat-m
with Arg-n and Med, given the indications in your previous posts. It
should be pretty easy to rule these out using confirmatories given
previously, and you may have already done so.

Argentum nitricum
-----------------------------------------------
Anxiety health. Fears heights, claustro, fainting.
Anticipation causes diarrhea. Impulsive.
Hot. > Cold, cold bathing, cold wind.
Desires sweets, salt. Belching, flatulence (no >).
Stitching pains. Palpitations binding (expanded feeling).
Green mucous stools, spluttery.
Vertigo w/ tinnitis, trembling, weakness.
Nitrate of Silver. Lunar Caustic. Ag NO3.

Medorrhinum
-----------------------------------------------
Discharges prominent or > by them. Hurried.
Rhinnitis w/ profuse, thick catarrh. Asthma.
Biting nails. High sex drive, masturbation.
Fear alone at night, someone behind him.
Sleeps on abdomen; knee-chest position.
Scraping throat (difficult). Warts, polyps, etc.
Desires fat, green fruit, oranges, ice, sweet, salt.
Soles sensitive. Hot feet: uncovers in bed.
Genitourinary complaints (prostate)-since marriage.
Ankle swelling. Rheumatism feet & ankles.

=======
Are there other peculiars in the anamnesis which could point to other
remedies?
=======

Sorry so lengthy Emily. Writing mood and get carried away. Allows an
opportunity to weave in a demo of other ideas, using your case as an
example. Hope interesting and useful.

These are more ideas only for your case. Your next move depends on your
understanding of it. Have success.

Best,
A
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Obsessed about disease

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:39 am
by AH
on 7/23/06 2:08 PM, myirishenergy at myirishenergy@yahoo.com wrote:

AH, did you really! Climb a mountain in the Himalayas??? How Exciting..
You say you were in a Psor state at that time due to your mixed
feelings of total despair and great irresolution.

((( Hi Em, Alas, Psor did not do the trick :-)
on 7/23/06 2:08 PM, myirishenergy at myirishenergy@yahoo.com wrote:
I appreciate all the work you did for me to help this person. I use
the Repertorium Universale. Don't have the Complete.

((( RU is more recent edition of the Complete 2000 I have on this internet
computer. RU is superior and has far more rx.
on 7/23/06 2:08 PM, myirishenergy at myirishenergy@yahoo.com wrote:
I've got to admit I've never used Med before so I didn't look outside
my "box" and here it is so plain and clear.

((( Med has only been added somewhat more completely to the two large reps
(Complete/RU and Synthesis) recently. Chewing ice/melancholy/hurriedness
etc is a nice tip-off, but as in other post, confirmatories are useful for
differentiation with other rx that may apply to your case (arg-n, nat-m,
etc, etc).
on 7/23/06 2:08 PM, myirishenergy at myirishenergy@yahoo.com wrote:
How much emphasis do you put on the persons body shape/how they're
built etc? Any books you would recommed for that?

((( True "Constitutional" when it exists --and the remedy on the surface of
the case in time and sequence to "peel the onion" -- may be different. A
functional remedy, etiological (trauma) layer, organ rx, or remedy for
organic pathology may be "on top" of a remedy which relates to body shape,
etc When/if get down to a layer related to morphology -- characteristics
assoc w/remedies are already in the rep and materia medica in piecemeal
fashion here and there. Also, for physiognomy of miasms and associated rx,
here is a link to Grant Bentley's website (his book is Appearance and
Circumstance).



Best,
Andy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Obsessed about disease

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:57 am
by myirishenergy
I tried Nat Mur and it did absolutely nothing.
Also I tried Ignatia and he said it gave him a brief moment of
sanity but it was for only an hour and didn't HOLD. We let it go,
no improvement for a couple of weeks as his condition is rushing me.
So maybe I was too rushed in my emotions for him and took him off
the Ignatia too soon because I wanted a "feel better" feeling right
away and solid. ya know? "feeling of well being we always look for".
How about I try that again to narrow it down and just ask him to be
patient and wait.
thanks for you help...email NOT too long...I'll save every bit of
information you send.
You know how it is with Homeopathy, you never know too much and can
always learn. I've always got a book in my face!!
Emily
in the male
14} [186]
may hinge
case -- or
of the
portion
burden of
infectious
the
client may
remedy despite
example,
feel
arn., bell.,
coca, cocc.,
ther.,
alum-p.,
aq-tun.,
m.160,
calc.56,
an.35,
cist.1088, clem.54,
crat.188,
epip.231,
br.188,
lact.231,
lyss.231,
nat-c.,
ac.231,
ac.,
rhod.2191,
seq-s.,
tab.231,
zinc.188
cham., chin.,
zinc.
out the
was
proved on
and ''nerves'' were
temperaments from the
contributing
Ambr, Arg-n,
may apply
that
death,
possible
or confirm
as
situation
what must be
might
remaining
well. Or, if
load so as to
case.
as another
peculiar. You
can
will
sometimes
Kingdom,
case is
(Scholten method)
an
medica,
without
symptoms of
that may
Stepping back
connection
to a remedy
remedies, and
reveal a
one
so other
m, which
worse
rubrics of
alum.,
bry., calad.,
dros.,
chl.,
nit-ac.,
rhus-t.,
Syph)
remedy); and
serviceable stool
system rx with
of being
that
nonphysical
his nervous
nervous
plexus).
and
nerve
subsystem
trauma in the
remedies
When that
functional
(organic
unexpressed
aur-ar.,
ip.,
puls.,
c.223,
cham.5,
3Ign.5,
op.15,
thuj.233,
noticed "overflowing"
will
which
in these
ambr.,
sil.231,
lac-h.,
nat-m.231,
plat.,
gels., Ign.,
(21) :
ign.,
staph.,
ars.,
ac.,
the symptom
the map"
factor
overarching
as
others --
is
onion "layer" of
and
loved one.
miasmatic
emotional or
given. But esp
differentiate nat-m
posts. It
other
Allows an
an
on your

Re: Obsessed about disease

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:30 am
by AH
on 7/23/06 5:57 PM, myirishenergy at myirishenergy@yahoo.com wrote:

I tried Nat Mur and it did absolutely nothing.
Also I tried Ignatia and he said it gave him a brief moment of
sanity but it was for only an hour and didn't HOLD. We let it go,
no improvement for a couple of weeks as his condition is rushing me.
So maybe I was too rushed in my emotions for him and took him off
the Ignatia too soon because I wanted a "feel better" feeling right
away and solid. ya know? "feeling of well being we always look for".
How about I try that again to narrow it down and just ask him to be
patient and wait.
thanks for you help...email NOT too long...I'll save every bit of
information you send.
You know how it is with Homeopathy, you never know too much and can
always learn. I've always got a book in my face!!
Emily

((( Hi Emily. Your experience already giving Ign and nat-m is data you
should respect to some degree. Perhaps you did not give the proper potency
of either or wait long enough. That is a consideration.

But you should be able to differentiate the involved rx using
confirmatories. Have you ruled out Med or Arg-n?

The ice chewing peculiar is nice for Med, along with the rest of the case.
It sounds like a possible. But any other confirmatory for Med present?
YOu have not presented any...

One must take a deep breath and let the patient *be* until you can sort
things out. Give pt a dispenser of Rescue remedy or a flower essence (cf.
Mimulus, Rock Rose,
Chicory, Heather) to take as needed if necessary until you can be sure of
chronic homeopathic rx as reasonably as you can. Or retry ignatia or nat-m
if one of those your best candidate and you think you got the potency wrong
or did not wait.

But if you can perhaps try to rule out Med, Arg-n, Nat-m, Ign, other
candidates before giving anything else. The rx that you cannot rule out,
maybe present to Minutus the pros and cons of each vis a vis the case.
Any confirmatory keynotes of nat-m? Arg-n? Ign? other rx? Use Morrisons
Desktop guide, Vermeulen Concordant and Synoptic 1 and 2 if you have them,
Smits 100 rx for the consulting room; or any other keynote mm (Allen,
Boger, Phatak, etc).

Step back and wait until a remedy "goes kerplunk" in the bucket, to the
extent that is possible. If no kerplunk, the case is not understood or
there is another remedy needed, and I advise using Sankarans method if
plant, fungus or animal, Scholtens if element or compound.

In worst case if too close to case or it is stale for you, get private help
from a colleague or refer.

Best,
A
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Obsessed about disease

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:12 am
by Pauline Ashford
Dear Emily, I dont know if others have found this but when you give Ignatia
initially I often find that it doesnt hold very long more so if the emotions
are very acute - even if it is the similimum, if the potency is too low or
if their vital force is very low , by giving it ORS (on return of symptoms)
very soon gets it to hold or you change the potency(so long as there is a
positive response to each dose). I find that if there is an initial
amelioration then dont change the remedy until you have repeated it at least
once to see if the response is there after the 2nd dose. If it is look again
and susceptibility and sensitivity with regards to potency or just give ORS
until it holds - esp if there are maintaining factors to the problems. Hope
this helps regards Pauline

Re: Obsessed about disease

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:27 am
by Joy Lucas
You said he was hyper as a child - so where does this case actually
begin and have you asked him about the vertigo, why he has these
sensations and all the details of them. Joy

http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
http://homepage.mac.com/joylucas/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/provings

Re: Obsessed about disease

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:09 pm
by Shannon Nelson
And the two states (before the death and after) are not necessarily
different remedies.
I would ask more about his reactions to the death--what emotions and
thoughts; came up in him (was it grief alone, or what else was mixed
in?), then look at AF remedies?
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Obsessed about disease

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:29 pm
by Shannon Nelson
Hi Emily,
What potency of ignatia or nat-m did you give him, and how long did you
wait before moving on (just in case there was more to happen?)
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]