What we experience as heat is the transmission of mostly infrared, which is part of the electromagnetic spectrum. It is radiated by vibratiing objects/molecules and when received by other particles causes an increase in their vibration or motion.
Atoms can never touch each other to cause an effect. They cause an effect by the transmission of energy by an electromagnetic mode.
If a particle is at say room temperature and is compared to ice, it will feel hotter, as it cools the ice will increase it's particle motion, ie become hotter and melt. Two objects at subzero temperatures will undergo the same dynamics, although we won't really be able to tell which feels hotter, other than using a thermometer.
The effect of one object on the other is through electromagnetic transmission, which is an energy transmission. We talk of kinetic and potential energy when referring to concepts of motion etc.
Things affecting other things without touching, in a dynamic way? Hey, that sounds like hahnemann - how did he get on this list?
Regards,
Paul
Sent from Samsung Mobile
OT Microwaving water
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: OT Microwaving water
AND that means they are physically HOTTER than before they had higher energy.
No.
They received electromagnetic waves (energy) from a magnetron or hotplate or wherever - which (energy) was converted by friction into HEAT...ie hotter molecules.
SO the molecules are simply hotter after the electromanectic waves arrived.
Molecules are a temperature in accordance with their MOTION. More motion means they ARE hotter.
All molecules have SOME motion and therefore SOME heat.
Friction ALWAYS produces hotter molecules.
(Moving faster MAKES them hotter).
Feel your car tires after friction on the road a while. The fricton HEATS the molecules (at which point they are moving faster than when they were cold. All friction results in heated molecules. The heat or energy is LOST from whatever caused the friction (eg emf waves) and added to the molecules (as heat).
Energy can be in many forms, and readily is converted from one form to another, always in a way that the total energy from the system that losese it plus the system that gains it, stays the same.
You need to accept that the rate of motion of an atom or molecule IS in direct proportion to its heat.
It is innate for any atom or molecule to have some heat. Those in deep space have it. There is no atom or moleule that is without heat. The only question is how much.
Energy supplied to something can be converted into any other kind of energy. For example incandescent light - you supply electron energy (electricity) which is converted to both light and heat - the bulb gets hot and the filament gets white-hot as the filament and glass molecules are eneregized, but some energy is also converted into light.
The total electrical energy supplied will equal the heat energy in the bulb and filament plus the light energy being sent into the surrounding area.
Switch the light off and the heat energy will be transferred to the surrounding air till the bulb has lost enough energy to be the temperature of the air. The total heat lost to air will equal the heating energy used by the surrounding air. The cooler molecules of filament and glass will be moving less energetically after losing that heat.
Movement and heat are related. Movement energy gets transferred as heat energy. LIke when you eat a steak, its energy goes into muslces which heat up when you use them. Exercise hard ansd you get hot:-) Becasue your molecles move faster and therefore are hotter from the movement.
It seems more that you do not wish to believe that molecular movement is related to molecular temperature, but that is the way of the universe. Motion is key. More motion implies more heat.
.........Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
No.
They received electromagnetic waves (energy) from a magnetron or hotplate or wherever - which (energy) was converted by friction into HEAT...ie hotter molecules.
SO the molecules are simply hotter after the electromanectic waves arrived.
Molecules are a temperature in accordance with their MOTION. More motion means they ARE hotter.
All molecules have SOME motion and therefore SOME heat.
Friction ALWAYS produces hotter molecules.
(Moving faster MAKES them hotter).
Feel your car tires after friction on the road a while. The fricton HEATS the molecules (at which point they are moving faster than when they were cold. All friction results in heated molecules. The heat or energy is LOST from whatever caused the friction (eg emf waves) and added to the molecules (as heat).
Energy can be in many forms, and readily is converted from one form to another, always in a way that the total energy from the system that losese it plus the system that gains it, stays the same.
You need to accept that the rate of motion of an atom or molecule IS in direct proportion to its heat.
It is innate for any atom or molecule to have some heat. Those in deep space have it. There is no atom or moleule that is without heat. The only question is how much.
Energy supplied to something can be converted into any other kind of energy. For example incandescent light - you supply electron energy (electricity) which is converted to both light and heat - the bulb gets hot and the filament gets white-hot as the filament and glass molecules are eneregized, but some energy is also converted into light.
The total electrical energy supplied will equal the heat energy in the bulb and filament plus the light energy being sent into the surrounding area.
Switch the light off and the heat energy will be transferred to the surrounding air till the bulb has lost enough energy to be the temperature of the air. The total heat lost to air will equal the heating energy used by the surrounding air. The cooler molecules of filament and glass will be moving less energetically after losing that heat.
Movement and heat are related. Movement energy gets transferred as heat energy. LIke when you eat a steak, its energy goes into muslces which heat up when you use them. Exercise hard ansd you get hot:-) Becasue your molecles move faster and therefore are hotter from the movement.
It seems more that you do not wish to believe that molecular movement is related to molecular temperature, but that is the way of the universe. Motion is key. More motion implies more heat.
.........Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: OT Microwaving water
Eech I think that is very misleading.
The sun's rays heats the planet directly (not infra red) and the heat absorbed by tghe earth is reflected back in the infrared spetrum, creatin ga balance to keep the plant teperature level.
But my own heat comes more from my food and the gas furnace I run in winter, plus some from motion exercise, none of which uses infrared.
But maybe you spend all day in a infra red sauna:-)
This is also not so. Atoms do touch each other, their energy ranges overlap each other all the time, and they dfo connect to form bonds into molecules, and that has a definite effect:-) Sometimes exothermic (giving off heat) sometime endothermic (absorbing heat)
There are MANY ways in which heat energy is tranferred either from another heat source (as with direct sub heat arriving and then being converted to infrared heat reflected) or with a fire that heats air which is blown down furnace ducts, or by friction etc....or a different energy may be converted to heat energy such as electricity to microwaves to hot water, etc.
Electromagnetic energy trasfer is only one option of many.
Motion such as friction motion is also a energy transfer method.
Heat can be directly transferred.
Heat can also be generated/transferred by chemical exothermic reactions.
Major forms of eneregy include atomic energy, elastic energy (potential mechanical energy in the configuration of a material as work is performed to distort its shape), electrostatic potential energy, gravitational energy, kinetic energy, magnetic energy (the one you mention to do with magnetic torque to realign a dipole moment), potential energy (the eneregy in a brick you carry up a hill, which can be released by dropping it - if it hits someone they know all about that energy for a split second at least), radiant energy, rotational energy (part of kinetic energy along with transitionl energy), sound energy, surface energy, thermal energy (heat).
I would like to add homeopathic energy, but I do not have a proof for it.
But i do want to make the point that ANY kind of energy can be converted to any other kind of energy.
I prefer "transfer'. (transmission implies transportation of energy which is not the case) Energy changes form, it is transported.
Energy can be stored. (eg a remedy, a brick, a magnet, an electric cord, a capacitor, thermos flask, an atom, a molecule, etc)
It's true magnetic energy travels without obvious touching as does light energy, and heat energy and the every other form of energy, even the potemtyial energy in the brick up the hill. Energy of ANY kind is not in the visible spectrum:-)
...and I still want to add homeopathic energy.....
I put it on?
.....Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
The sun's rays heats the planet directly (not infra red) and the heat absorbed by tghe earth is reflected back in the infrared spetrum, creatin ga balance to keep the plant teperature level.
But my own heat comes more from my food and the gas furnace I run in winter, plus some from motion exercise, none of which uses infrared.
But maybe you spend all day in a infra red sauna:-)
This is also not so. Atoms do touch each other, their energy ranges overlap each other all the time, and they dfo connect to form bonds into molecules, and that has a definite effect:-) Sometimes exothermic (giving off heat) sometime endothermic (absorbing heat)
There are MANY ways in which heat energy is tranferred either from another heat source (as with direct sub heat arriving and then being converted to infrared heat reflected) or with a fire that heats air which is blown down furnace ducts, or by friction etc....or a different energy may be converted to heat energy such as electricity to microwaves to hot water, etc.
Electromagnetic energy trasfer is only one option of many.
Motion such as friction motion is also a energy transfer method.
Heat can be directly transferred.
Heat can also be generated/transferred by chemical exothermic reactions.
Major forms of eneregy include atomic energy, elastic energy (potential mechanical energy in the configuration of a material as work is performed to distort its shape), electrostatic potential energy, gravitational energy, kinetic energy, magnetic energy (the one you mention to do with magnetic torque to realign a dipole moment), potential energy (the eneregy in a brick you carry up a hill, which can be released by dropping it - if it hits someone they know all about that energy for a split second at least), radiant energy, rotational energy (part of kinetic energy along with transitionl energy), sound energy, surface energy, thermal energy (heat).
I would like to add homeopathic energy, but I do not have a proof for it.
But i do want to make the point that ANY kind of energy can be converted to any other kind of energy.
I prefer "transfer'. (transmission implies transportation of energy which is not the case) Energy changes form, it is transported.
Energy can be stored. (eg a remedy, a brick, a magnet, an electric cord, a capacitor, thermos flask, an atom, a molecule, etc)
It's true magnetic energy travels without obvious touching as does light energy, and heat energy and the every other form of energy, even the potemtyial energy in the brick up the hill. Energy of ANY kind is not in the visible spectrum:-)
...and I still want to add homeopathic energy.....
I put it on?
.....Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
Re: OT Microwaving water
All objects radiate heat (infra-red), no matter how cold they are. They radiate less if they are cold, so relative to the warm object next to it, we say that it is not radiating heat. But relative to liquid nitrogen, and snow ball from Wisconsin is radiating heat. So also is the liquid nitrogen, but much, much less than the Wisconsinian snowball. Only objects that would be at absolute zero do not radiate heat, but getting to absolute zero is theoretically impossible and has not yet been demonstrated in the laboratory, and I don't expect it to ever happen. As long as atoms are moving and bouncing against each other, they are radiating electro-magnetic waves.
Keep in mind that atoms are little "bundles" of electro-magnetic energy, so it is not the slightest bit strange that when they bounce together they generate "free" electro-magnetic waves.
Roger Bird
________________________________
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 23:32:59 -0500
Subject: Re: OT Re: [Minutus] Microwaving water
Hi Hennie,
I'm not sure where you have made the leap from kinetic energy to generation of electromagnetic wages. Yes if an object is heated *enough*, it may generate on the electromagnetic spectrum, but that is not what heat is; heat is only about the movement of the particles -- not the generation of *other* particles/waves (such as make up the electromagnetic spectrum).
When an object is emitting in the electromagnetic spectrum, I think we'd have to say there is a presumably infinitesimal amount of energy (and therefore also mass) being lost; but this does not happen from simple kinetic motion of the molecules, as in moderate temperatures.
This is an area where Irene's distinction between what something "is" and what it "does" would come into play; heat does radiate *if* there are e.g. air molecules to pick up and pass along the warm (motion of the molecules), but it is not considered a form of radiation (is not a word applied to any part of the electromagnetic spectrum).
I hope that makes sense…
Shannon
Keep in mind that atoms are little "bundles" of electro-magnetic energy, so it is not the slightest bit strange that when they bounce together they generate "free" electro-magnetic waves.
Roger Bird
________________________________
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 23:32:59 -0500
Subject: Re: OT Re: [Minutus] Microwaving water
Hi Hennie,
I'm not sure where you have made the leap from kinetic energy to generation of electromagnetic wages. Yes if an object is heated *enough*, it may generate on the electromagnetic spectrum, but that is not what heat is; heat is only about the movement of the particles -- not the generation of *other* particles/waves (such as make up the electromagnetic spectrum).
When an object is emitting in the electromagnetic spectrum, I think we'd have to say there is a presumably infinitesimal amount of energy (and therefore also mass) being lost; but this does not happen from simple kinetic motion of the molecules, as in moderate temperatures.
This is an area where Irene's distinction between what something "is" and what it "does" would come into play; heat does radiate *if* there are e.g. air molecules to pick up and pass along the warm (motion of the molecules), but it is not considered a form of radiation (is not a word applied to any part of the electromagnetic spectrum).
I hope that makes sense…
Shannon