detailed 5th and 6th
Couldn't cut out the words of the Organon.
I believe Margerie Blackie used to do the 'dry' split dose method.
Give a dose Night, morning, then night of the 1M - the thought was to
're-start' the vital force to stop an aggravation.
I cannot bring myself around to doing that with dry dose. It is like
rubbing the fur the wrong way, just
doesn't feel right.
But I have put a remedy in a bit of water (2 dram bottle) and had the
client use a split dose in the Night, morning , night
schedule to try to stop an aggravation from occuring. In this case they
shake the bottle X number of times before the 2nd or 3rd dose.
I don't do this frequently, am more apt to do it with a child where a 1M
Rx is indicated - fairly healthy child who needs some tuning up.
After the first go around, when the remedy is repeated, I only give one
dose of same potency.
Have not found any problems with the method.
However, I far prefer the LMs or even a 200C in water.
I give about 95% of my remedies aqueously. Rarely open with a M potency
(usu 30s or LMs, more rarely 200s)
Warmly, Maria
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
split doses
-
Ardavan Shahrdar
- Moderator
- Posts: 1277
- Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2000 10:00 pm
Re: split doses
Hi,
Yes! Repeating an unchanged dose may alter the good
effects of the previous prescription. That's why if
one uses dry doses, should be so careful in second
prescriptions. In liquid doses (both centimal and LM)
this is much more flexible, as you can change the
quality of the remedy by succussions.
I have experienced the good results of liquid doses in
hundreds of cases. At first I used dry doses. After
switching to liquid posology, now I have little
problems with aggravations.
Repeating dry doses of a potency cannot be called 'dry
split doses'. If you do this you are prescribing
several doses and not the splits of a dose. The term
'split doses' is applicable only for liquid doses. For
example, if you make a bottle of LM 01 and tell the
patient to take a teaspoon from the first dilution
glass every 5 days for 8 times, this is actually one
dose given in 8 split doses. The next dose is the next
degree of dynamization made in another bottle.
In the last 3 years I have had only 6-7 patients who
responded to dry doses and careful 'wait & watch'
better than liquid doses (which I don't know why!
Kind regards,
Ardavan
=====
"Life is beautiful, if you look at it in a beautiful way."
Dr Ardavan Shahrdar, MD, DIHom
President of Iranian Homeopathic Association
Website: http://www.minutus.org
Email: ashahrdar@yahoo.com
Mailing list: http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus
__________________________________________________
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Yes! Repeating an unchanged dose may alter the good
effects of the previous prescription. That's why if
one uses dry doses, should be so careful in second
prescriptions. In liquid doses (both centimal and LM)
this is much more flexible, as you can change the
quality of the remedy by succussions.
I have experienced the good results of liquid doses in
hundreds of cases. At first I used dry doses. After
switching to liquid posology, now I have little
problems with aggravations.
Repeating dry doses of a potency cannot be called 'dry
split doses'. If you do this you are prescribing
several doses and not the splits of a dose. The term
'split doses' is applicable only for liquid doses. For
example, if you make a bottle of LM 01 and tell the
patient to take a teaspoon from the first dilution
glass every 5 days for 8 times, this is actually one
dose given in 8 split doses. The next dose is the next
degree of dynamization made in another bottle.
In the last 3 years I have had only 6-7 patients who
responded to dry doses and careful 'wait & watch'
better than liquid doses (which I don't know why!
Kind regards,
Ardavan
=====
"Life is beautiful, if you look at it in a beautiful way."
Dr Ardavan Shahrdar, MD, DIHom
President of Iranian Homeopathic Association
Website: http://www.minutus.org
Email: ashahrdar@yahoo.com
Mailing list: http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Re: split doses
I have used only water potencies in my practice since the day I read the 6th
edition of the Organon, almost all of them are hand succussed, although I
still use X's Cs Ms with Lms.
I rarely see aggravations, they are not easily antidoted, and it allows the
patient to make adjustments according the to sucussions and dilutions.
I also have at least a drawer of people who paid another Homeopath for a well
chosen remedy, and simply adjusted the dosage to a water one, too many
overdosed or confused....they are now sticking with Homeopathy again, many
active in study groups, etc.
I would encourage others to at least try it.
Cindee
edition of the Organon, almost all of them are hand succussed, although I
still use X's Cs Ms with Lms.
I rarely see aggravations, they are not easily antidoted, and it allows the
patient to make adjustments according the to sucussions and dilutions.
I also have at least a drawer of people who paid another Homeopath for a well
chosen remedy, and simply adjusted the dosage to a water one, too many
overdosed or confused....they are now sticking with Homeopathy again, many
active in study groups, etc.
I would encourage others to at least try it.
Cindee-
Sue Muller
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: split doses
Hi Ardavan,
We can administer a dose of a stock remedy on more than one occasion with an
interval inbetween:
By placing an amount of the liquid stock remedy (any scale) into the
patient's mouth directly.
OR
By placing an amount of the stock remedy onto a pill and then that into the
mouth.
Same diff. in my books) i.e. = a number of doses.
If want to call this split then it would be that every time we do this we
are giving a split dose. If not, what is a non-split dose, a split dose,
several doses. One might say a non-split dose is when you give one dose
only. If you happen to repeat the dose at some stage does it now become a
split dose? If not, because of the time gap what is the time gap? When is a
second dose a split dose or a non-split dose? You see, it's all a bit silly
when you look at it rationally, it seems to me.
Sue
We can administer a dose of a stock remedy on more than one occasion with an
interval inbetween:
By placing an amount of the liquid stock remedy (any scale) into the
patient's mouth directly.
OR
By placing an amount of the stock remedy onto a pill and then that into the
mouth.
Same diff. in my books
) i.e. = a number of doses.If want to call this split then it would be that every time we do this we
are giving a split dose. If not, what is a non-split dose, a split dose,
several doses. One might say a non-split dose is when you give one dose
only. If you happen to repeat the dose at some stage does it now become a
split dose? If not, because of the time gap what is the time gap? When is a
second dose a split dose or a non-split dose? You see, it's all a bit silly
when you look at it rationally, it seems to me.
Sue
-
Dave Hartley
- Posts: 992
- Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:47 pm
Re: split doses
Hi all,
As far as I'm able to understand it, the anachronistic practice of giving
multiple dry doses of medicine within a short time of each other, without
concern for assessing clien sensitivity or observing signs of any remedy
reaction.. most likely developed as some sort of "insurance" that one of
the pellets was active. Only God knows why this could be construed as a
"split" dose -when in fact is a routine repetition at the most inopportune
time in a case- the time where you've not yet got any feedback from having
given the remedy.
There is another outgrowth to this anachronistic practice, which flies even
farther afield of prudent practice and Hahnemann's (and others)
philosophical and clinical legacy... which seems to be somewhat popular in
Europe - and is referred to as "ascending split dose" -which of couse is
NOT "split" at all, but is a sort of polypharmacy almost - routine doses of
30c, 200c, 1M, 10M all given within a few hours to a day.
God Only Knows why people fall into such routines!
The Organon is very clear on the subject - specifically "prohibiting" the
practice, for all good and detailed reasons, and concisely setting forth the
culmination of Hahnemann's homeopathic practice and innovation.. yet here
we have an apparently great number of people who've not even bothered to
READ the 6th Organon.. who are practicing and teaching homeopathy.
How can this be?!
Potency selection and dosage (the art of posology) offers us a near
infinite ability to *eliminate* the effects of overdosing, which those
who've never read the 6th Organon blithely pass off as "healing crises" ...
Can you imagine if allopaths were to follow such procedures "knocking in"
the medicine?
-oh... but they DO, don't they...
Dave Hartley
www.localcomputermart.com/dave
Santa Cruz, CA (831)423-4284
As far as I'm able to understand it, the anachronistic practice of giving
multiple dry doses of medicine within a short time of each other, without
concern for assessing clien sensitivity or observing signs of any remedy
reaction.. most likely developed as some sort of "insurance" that one of
the pellets was active. Only God knows why this could be construed as a
"split" dose -when in fact is a routine repetition at the most inopportune
time in a case- the time where you've not yet got any feedback from having
given the remedy.
There is another outgrowth to this anachronistic practice, which flies even
farther afield of prudent practice and Hahnemann's (and others)
philosophical and clinical legacy... which seems to be somewhat popular in
Europe - and is referred to as "ascending split dose" -which of couse is
NOT "split" at all, but is a sort of polypharmacy almost - routine doses of
30c, 200c, 1M, 10M all given within a few hours to a day.
God Only Knows why people fall into such routines!
The Organon is very clear on the subject - specifically "prohibiting" the
practice, for all good and detailed reasons, and concisely setting forth the
culmination of Hahnemann's homeopathic practice and innovation.. yet here
we have an apparently great number of people who've not even bothered to
READ the 6th Organon.. who are practicing and teaching homeopathy.
How can this be?!
Potency selection and dosage (the art of posology) offers us a near
infinite ability to *eliminate* the effects of overdosing, which those
who've never read the 6th Organon blithely pass off as "healing crises" ...
Can you imagine if allopaths were to follow such procedures "knocking in"
the medicine?
-oh... but they DO, don't they...
Dave Hartley
www.localcomputermart.com/dave
Santa Cruz, CA (831)423-4284
-
Ardavan Shahrdar
- Moderator
- Posts: 1277
- Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2000 10:00 pm
Re: split doses
Dear Sue,
What I am saying is that you cannot give a dry dose of
a potency in split doses (!) in which you cannot
change the quality of the remedy a little by
succusions prior to taking each dose.
Repeating the same potency in dry form may alter the
good effects of the previous dose esp when a good
simillimum is prescribed and ESP when the patient is
oversensitive.
Following is the footnote of Aphorism 247 of Organon.
This is new in the 6th version and not present in ver
5th of Organon!
'We ought not even with the best chosen homœopathic
medicine, for instance one pellet of the same potency
that was beneficial at first, to let the patient have
a second or third dose, taken dry. In the same way, if
the medicine was dissolved in water and the first dose
proved beneficial, a second or third and even smaller
dose from the bottle standing undisturbed, even in
intervals of a few days, would prove no longer
beneficial, even though the original preparation had
been potentized with ten succussions or as I suggested
later with but two succussions in order to obviate
this disadvantage and this according to above reasons.
But through modification of every dose in its
dynamiztion degree, as I herewith teach, there exists
no offence, even if the doses be repeated more
frequently, even if the medicine be ever so highly
potentized with ever so many succussions. It almost
seems as if the best selected homœopathic remedy could
best extract the morbid disorder from the vital force
and in chronic disease to extinguish the same only if
applied in several different forms.'
Kind regards,
Ardavan
--- Sue Muller wrote: > Hi
Ardavan,
=====
"Life is beautiful, if you look at it in a beautiful way."
Dr Ardavan Shahrdar, MD, DIHom
President of Iranian Homeopathic Association
Website: http://www.minutus.org
Email: ashahrdar@yahoo.com
Mailing list: http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
What I am saying is that you cannot give a dry dose of
a potency in split doses (!) in which you cannot
change the quality of the remedy a little by
succusions prior to taking each dose.
Repeating the same potency in dry form may alter the
good effects of the previous dose esp when a good
simillimum is prescribed and ESP when the patient is
oversensitive.
Following is the footnote of Aphorism 247 of Organon.
This is new in the 6th version and not present in ver
5th of Organon!
'We ought not even with the best chosen homœopathic
medicine, for instance one pellet of the same potency
that was beneficial at first, to let the patient have
a second or third dose, taken dry. In the same way, if
the medicine was dissolved in water and the first dose
proved beneficial, a second or third and even smaller
dose from the bottle standing undisturbed, even in
intervals of a few days, would prove no longer
beneficial, even though the original preparation had
been potentized with ten succussions or as I suggested
later with but two succussions in order to obviate
this disadvantage and this according to above reasons.
But through modification of every dose in its
dynamiztion degree, as I herewith teach, there exists
no offence, even if the doses be repeated more
frequently, even if the medicine be ever so highly
potentized with ever so many succussions. It almost
seems as if the best selected homœopathic remedy could
best extract the morbid disorder from the vital force
and in chronic disease to extinguish the same only if
applied in several different forms.'
Kind regards,
Ardavan
--- Sue Muller wrote: > Hi
Ardavan,
=====
"Life is beautiful, if you look at it in a beautiful way."
Dr Ardavan Shahrdar, MD, DIHom
President of Iranian Homeopathic Association
Website: http://www.minutus.org
Email: ashahrdar@yahoo.com
Mailing list: http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
-
Arlene Kellman, DO
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: split doses
If it is true that the number of pills we give matters, whether in liquid or dry form, it follows for me that some people (of low sensitivity) might do better with a concentrated dry dose of multiple pills rather than a diluted liquid created from a single pill. Many of us have had seen excellent, long-lasting responses to high-potency dry doses without significant aggravations.
Not all patients are extremely sensitive to homeopathic treatment. As others have stated, Hahnemann himself was constantly experimenting and changing his approach to prescribing. To take the 6th edition of the Organon as gospel and completely ignore modern clinical experience is, in my opinion, contrary to the ultimate goal of healing the sick. Yes, some people do best with LMs and liquid dilutions, but it is logical to me that some others respond better to dry doses.
Arlene
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Not all patients are extremely sensitive to homeopathic treatment. As others have stated, Hahnemann himself was constantly experimenting and changing his approach to prescribing. To take the 6th edition of the Organon as gospel and completely ignore modern clinical experience is, in my opinion, contrary to the ultimate goal of healing the sick. Yes, some people do best with LMs and liquid dilutions, but it is logical to me that some others respond better to dry doses.
Arlene
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: split doses
Hi Dave and all,
Dave Hartley wrote:
I would love to hear more thoughts and observations about this.
Dave, from those few can you make any suggestions about what sorts of
patients or
situations might respond better to 4th Org practice (dry, watch and
wait) than to
liquid/LM? Others?
Shannon
Dave Hartley wrote:
I would love to hear more thoughts and observations about this.
Dave, from those few can you make any suggestions about what sorts of
patients or
situations might respond better to 4th Org practice (dry, watch and
wait) than to
liquid/LM? Others?
Shannon
-
Dave Hartley
- Posts: 992
- Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:47 pm
Re: split doses
No, that quote is from Ardavan.
I don't use dry dose at all, and would tinker with amount of medicinal
solution, number of succussions, then potency ..
Dave Hartley
www.localcomputermart.com/dave
Santa Cruz, CA (831)423-4284
I don't use dry dose at all, and would tinker with amount of medicinal
solution, number of succussions, then potency ..
Dave Hartley
www.localcomputermart.com/dave
Santa Cruz, CA (831)423-4284
-
Ardavan Shahrdar
- Moderator
- Posts: 1277
- Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2000 10:00 pm
Re: split doses
Dear Arlene,
Something interesting that I have experienced (and is
consistent with Organon) is that when you solve a
pillule in a glass of water, the solution becomes much
more stimulating. I have seen that the difference
between 2 teaspoons and 1 teaspoon is MUCH more than 2
pillules and 1 pillule taken by the patient. The point
is that in solutions you can apply a flexible dose
adjustment.
Yes, I agree with you but Hahnemann's teachings is the
best place to start with. I hope that in future we can
go further in the correct path.
Those 6-7 patients were a VERY VERY small percentage
of my patients who didn't respond to the technic of
dose adjustment but did excellent with dry doses. This
is a limited number of patients for finding the reason
for their specific reaction.
Kind regards,
Ardavan
=====
"Life is beautiful, if you look at it in a beautiful way."
Dr Ardavan Shahrdar, MD, DIHom
President of Iranian Homeopathic Association
Website: http://www.minutus.org
Email: ashahrdar@yahoo.com
Mailing list: http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
Something interesting that I have experienced (and is
consistent with Organon) is that when you solve a
pillule in a glass of water, the solution becomes much
more stimulating. I have seen that the difference
between 2 teaspoons and 1 teaspoon is MUCH more than 2
pillules and 1 pillule taken by the patient. The point
is that in solutions you can apply a flexible dose
adjustment.
Yes, I agree with you but Hahnemann's teachings is the
best place to start with. I hope that in future we can
go further in the correct path.
Those 6-7 patients were a VERY VERY small percentage
of my patients who didn't respond to the technic of
dose adjustment but did excellent with dry doses. This
is a limited number of patients for finding the reason
for their specific reaction.
Kind regards,
Ardavan
=====
"Life is beautiful, if you look at it in a beautiful way."
Dr Ardavan Shahrdar, MD, DIHom
President of Iranian Homeopathic Association
Website: http://www.minutus.org
Email: ashahrdar@yahoo.com
Mailing list: http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com