We need a magnesium load measure, like the glycemic load. The glycemic load is a measure of how much glucose enters the blood thanks to a particular food. When we try to make decisions about magnesium sources, we are mostly shooting in the dark. I can tell that painting magnesium chloride oil on my skin works better than taking a magnesium tab, but that is a pretty rough estimate. It is mostly guess work to know which part of the body is best for applying magnesium oil. Is chelate better than oxide; is oxide better than sulphide? It is mostly all a big guess. Is eating spinach as good as a pill? No one really knows.
Everything that I said above applies to every nutrient and every food and every supplement. A Vitamin-C load measure could wipe out numerous UNNECESSARY business lines. What if eating an apple provides as much Vitamin C as a gram sized tablet of Vitamin C?
You can be sure that supplement companies won't be sponsoring these kinds of meta-studies because it might be a threat to their business. And you can be sure that medical people won't be sponsoring these kinds of meta-studies because they think that nutrition is irrelevant to health and that only they in their supreme wisdom can heal.
Roger Bird
Magnesiac Load
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Magnesiac Load
It's not that bad.
Back in the 1950s and before, there was a great deal of research on what nutrients can be found in what foods.
It has not changed a lot if you eat organic foods. Farm land that uses a lot of chemical fertilizer causes a leaching of minerals and so if they are not in the soil then they are also not in the food.
However, that aside, the nutrients and where to get them and how much etc is OLD news.
Two excellent references from back before the information was suppressed and excluded from medical schools by modern medicine, include:
* The Nutrition Almanac. I personally prefer the 4th edition which is back in 1996, not the more recent ones - the old ones have more info. It's also cheaper, a penny used clean library version, plus $3.99 shipping for example. Great value for money:-)
* Adelle Davis's "Let's Get Well" from 1955 or so, if you can find a copy. She also wrote related books on eating healthy. (Let's eat right to get fit, let's have healthy children, let's cook .... etc). Her books are loaded with research refs used in writing them.
Both have charts of what food has which nutrients, plus text on details of too litte, too much, what happens etc,
Another info source:
* A free searchable on line Database of food analysis values from the US govt is here:
http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/search/list
None of these will go into the details of WHICH form of Magnesium etc works best.
SO you need to combine different sources of info.
*Also your blood type will affect your personal needs and that can be checked in the Blood Type Enclyclopedia by Peter D/Adamo
* And an overall anti-inflamamtory diet is explained in Dr Nicholas Perricone's books.
I'd start with "The Perricone Prescripton".
Library may have some/all of these.
The smart move is to use ALL these sources to figure YOUR ideal approach.
Look for them at half.com and google them for best prices. Consider used if cost matters.
Makes no difference, it gets into the blood stream and circulates.
ANYthing is better than oxide:-)
Best is chloride; very poor next is a toss-up between asporotate and glycinate/chelate; next is citrate; then last are hydroxide, sulphate and oxide.
No it is well researched and known.
Better due to extra nutrients present including some for absorption of Mg, but insufficient quantity. Take Mag supplement with Mg-rich foods:
Seafood, esp kelp, other seaweed and oysters. Whole grains, esp buckwheat and millet (NOT wheat, it is inflammatory). Leafy greens, especially spinach, kale, dandelion. Nuts and seeds, especially almonds and brazil nuts. (Not too much millet if you have thyroid issues, it is goitrogenic.) 80% dark chocolate.
Mg needs B6 to absorb it well.
It's old research and well known, you just have to hunt it down.
About 40 of them. Yes.
But it is old known stuff, mostly buried by the powers who'd rather you used drugs for the deficienecy symptoms.
No way, hardly a trace of C in apples. Eat red/green/yellow peppers for much more C.
Hope the refs help.
Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
Back in the 1950s and before, there was a great deal of research on what nutrients can be found in what foods.
It has not changed a lot if you eat organic foods. Farm land that uses a lot of chemical fertilizer causes a leaching of minerals and so if they are not in the soil then they are also not in the food.
However, that aside, the nutrients and where to get them and how much etc is OLD news.
Two excellent references from back before the information was suppressed and excluded from medical schools by modern medicine, include:
* The Nutrition Almanac. I personally prefer the 4th edition which is back in 1996, not the more recent ones - the old ones have more info. It's also cheaper, a penny used clean library version, plus $3.99 shipping for example. Great value for money:-)
* Adelle Davis's "Let's Get Well" from 1955 or so, if you can find a copy. She also wrote related books on eating healthy. (Let's eat right to get fit, let's have healthy children, let's cook .... etc). Her books are loaded with research refs used in writing them.
Both have charts of what food has which nutrients, plus text on details of too litte, too much, what happens etc,
Another info source:
* A free searchable on line Database of food analysis values from the US govt is here:
http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/search/list
None of these will go into the details of WHICH form of Magnesium etc works best.
SO you need to combine different sources of info.
*Also your blood type will affect your personal needs and that can be checked in the Blood Type Enclyclopedia by Peter D/Adamo
* And an overall anti-inflamamtory diet is explained in Dr Nicholas Perricone's books.
I'd start with "The Perricone Prescripton".
Library may have some/all of these.
The smart move is to use ALL these sources to figure YOUR ideal approach.
Look for them at half.com and google them for best prices. Consider used if cost matters.
Makes no difference, it gets into the blood stream and circulates.
ANYthing is better than oxide:-)
Best is chloride; very poor next is a toss-up between asporotate and glycinate/chelate; next is citrate; then last are hydroxide, sulphate and oxide.
No it is well researched and known.
Better due to extra nutrients present including some for absorption of Mg, but insufficient quantity. Take Mag supplement with Mg-rich foods:
Seafood, esp kelp, other seaweed and oysters. Whole grains, esp buckwheat and millet (NOT wheat, it is inflammatory). Leafy greens, especially spinach, kale, dandelion. Nuts and seeds, especially almonds and brazil nuts. (Not too much millet if you have thyroid issues, it is goitrogenic.) 80% dark chocolate.
Mg needs B6 to absorb it well.
It's old research and well known, you just have to hunt it down.
About 40 of them. Yes.
But it is old known stuff, mostly buried by the powers who'd rather you used drugs for the deficienecy symptoms.
No way, hardly a trace of C in apples. Eat red/green/yellow peppers for much more C.
Hope the refs help.
Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
healthinfo6
- Posts: 987
- Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:00 pm
Re: Magnesiac Load
The orotates are considered superior to all the above.
(1) a low dissociation constant, (2) an affinity for specific cellular systems or organs, and (3) a metabolic pathway which liberates the transported mineral within the targeted organ or system.
Magnesium Orotate
Of all the macronutrient minerals in the human body, magnesium is the one most likely to be deficient. Magnesium deficiency has been linked to a large number of disorders, including diabetes, hypertension, dementia, and osteoporosis. [4 ] [5 ] [6 ] [7 ] Magnesium compounds are medically accepted as helpful for migraines, the upper respiratory system, and cardiovascular health. [8 ] Magnesium orotate should be even more effective than other magnesium supplements for such conditions, in view of its enhancement of magnesium transport and its documented benefits in cardiovascular disorders
http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/calc ... ansporters
Susan
(1) a low dissociation constant, (2) an affinity for specific cellular systems or organs, and (3) a metabolic pathway which liberates the transported mineral within the targeted organ or system.
Magnesium Orotate
Of all the macronutrient minerals in the human body, magnesium is the one most likely to be deficient. Magnesium deficiency has been linked to a large number of disorders, including diabetes, hypertension, dementia, and osteoporosis. [4 ] [5 ] [6 ] [7 ] Magnesium compounds are medically accepted as helpful for migraines, the upper respiratory system, and cardiovascular health. [8 ] Magnesium orotate should be even more effective than other magnesium supplements for such conditions, in view of its enhancement of magnesium transport and its documented benefits in cardiovascular disorders
http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/calc ... ansporters
Susan
Re: Magnesiac Load
Susan,
Did you take the cost into account?
https://www.consumerlab.com/answers/Wha ... m_orotate/
Roger
________________________________
From: healthyinfo6@aol.com
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 07:31:42 -0500
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Magnesiac Load
The orotates are considered superior to all the above.
(1) a low dissociation constant, (2) an affinity for specific cellular systems or organs, and (3) a metabolic pathway which liberates the transported mineral within the targeted organ or system.
Magnesium Orotate
Of all the macronutrient minerals in the human body, magnesium is the one most likely to be deficient. Magnesium deficiency has been linked to a large number of disorders, including diabetes, hypertension, dementia, and osteoporosis. [4 ] [5 ] [6 ] [7 ] Magnesium compounds are medically accepted as helpful for migraines, the upper respiratory system, and cardiovascular health. [8 ] Magnesium orotate should be even more effective than other magnesium supplements for such conditions, in view of its enhancement of magnesium transport and its documented benefits in cardiovascular disorders
http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/calc ... ansporters
Susan
Did you take the cost into account?
https://www.consumerlab.com/answers/Wha ... m_orotate/
Roger
________________________________
From: healthyinfo6@aol.com
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 07:31:42 -0500
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Magnesiac Load
The orotates are considered superior to all the above.
(1) a low dissociation constant, (2) an affinity for specific cellular systems or organs, and (3) a metabolic pathway which liberates the transported mineral within the targeted organ or system.
Magnesium Orotate
Of all the macronutrient minerals in the human body, magnesium is the one most likely to be deficient. Magnesium deficiency has been linked to a large number of disorders, including diabetes, hypertension, dementia, and osteoporosis. [4 ] [5 ] [6 ] [7 ] Magnesium compounds are medically accepted as helpful for migraines, the upper respiratory system, and cardiovascular health. [8 ] Magnesium orotate should be even more effective than other magnesium supplements for such conditions, in view of its enhancement of magnesium transport and its documented benefits in cardiovascular disorders
http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/calc ... ansporters
Susan
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Magnesiac Load
By yourself?
Not by research.
The link you provide is all theory, no practice.
Most clinical studies using Mg orotate versus placebo will of course provide benefits.
There is one advantage but it is also the biggest DISadvantage: Magnesium orotate (contrary to the claim of "GOOD" dissociation constants in the link you provide) actually FAILS to dissolve in water to any extent at all.
The result has the "benefit" that it will not react nastily with stomach acid as does Magnesium Chloride - but that ALSO is why it is not worth using. It can not get into the cells due to lack of dissolving ability. It helps in areas where magnesium is nedeed external to cells. But where you want deep absorpton it does not get there.
The link you provided claims it may get there in theory - and they suggest it may do so withot dissolvig - ragtehr a nutty idea actually - the opeings in cell walls are too small - they never studied it - well it does not geet into the cells effectively do in practice.
So it's not on my list of viable manesium options.
That's the problem, it means it does not dissolve.
Magnesium chloride is the opposite - it dissolves so well and fast that it even grabs water from the air.
That full ability to dissolve is what gets it into the deep tissues.
yeah, all the ones we do not need:-) It can't absorb ito the others.
A theory that holds no water - literally:-)
It is always a problem when you grab information from some website or other leading to a sales ptch for an iitem - and not from a good research source.
Reading that website tells the story well enough - PROVDIED you understand the problems of a low dssociation constat and do not skip the line where he says "should" (not does) becasue it is all untested theory ad does not work in practice.
Instead read:
Rom J Intern Med. 2004;42(3):491-501.
Magnesium orotate--experimental and clinical evidence.
Classen HG.
Pharmacology and Toxicology of Nutrition University of Hohenheim Stuttgart, Deuschland.
Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
Not by research.
The link you provide is all theory, no practice.
Most clinical studies using Mg orotate versus placebo will of course provide benefits.
There is one advantage but it is also the biggest DISadvantage: Magnesium orotate (contrary to the claim of "GOOD" dissociation constants in the link you provide) actually FAILS to dissolve in water to any extent at all.
The result has the "benefit" that it will not react nastily with stomach acid as does Magnesium Chloride - but that ALSO is why it is not worth using. It can not get into the cells due to lack of dissolving ability. It helps in areas where magnesium is nedeed external to cells. But where you want deep absorpton it does not get there.
The link you provided claims it may get there in theory - and they suggest it may do so withot dissolvig - ragtehr a nutty idea actually - the opeings in cell walls are too small - they never studied it - well it does not geet into the cells effectively do in practice.
So it's not on my list of viable manesium options.
That's the problem, it means it does not dissolve.
Magnesium chloride is the opposite - it dissolves so well and fast that it even grabs water from the air.
That full ability to dissolve is what gets it into the deep tissues.
yeah, all the ones we do not need:-) It can't absorb ito the others.
A theory that holds no water - literally:-)
It is always a problem when you grab information from some website or other leading to a sales ptch for an iitem - and not from a good research source.
Reading that website tells the story well enough - PROVDIED you understand the problems of a low dssociation constat and do not skip the line where he says "should" (not does) becasue it is all untested theory ad does not work in practice.
Instead read:
Rom J Intern Med. 2004;42(3):491-501.
Magnesium orotate--experimental and clinical evidence.
Classen HG.
Pharmacology and Toxicology of Nutrition University of Hohenheim Stuttgart, Deuschland.
Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Bob Needham
- Posts: 354
- Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Magnesiac Load
Thank you all for an interesting discussion and informative discussion on magnesium. I am going through a similar quest with Vitamin E tocotrienols, the isomeric form of the tocopherols form we are so used to. The reports on this isomeric form look very promising. On the other hand, it appears to be very new to the market and the research work seems to be somewhat limited in it's scope.
Best in Health
bob
Best in Health
bob
-
healthinfo6
- Posts: 987
- Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:00 pm
Re: Magnesiac Load
From: Irene de Villiers
To: minutus
Sent: Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:37 am*
...
Adelle Davis's "Let's Get Well" from 1955 or so, if you can find a copy. She also wrote related books on eating healthy. (Let's eat right to get fit, let's have healthy children, let's cook .... etc). Her books are loaded with research refs used in writing them.
...
Seems Adele truly was a pioneer!
Adelle Davis was a visionary. When going back through her history it is amazing to realize the impact Adelle had on the most recent and popular diets that are the craze now. Dr. Barry Sears, author of “The Zone” speaks very highly of Adelle Davis and her impact on his discoveries.
Thirty years ago Adelle Davis was a supporter of Dr. Atkins, founder of “The Atkins Diet”. Adelle Davis was the pioneer of the nutritional revolution. Her teachings and writings influenced people striving for health and wellness long before our time.
http://adelledavis.org/adelle-davis/
Susan
To: minutus
Sent: Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:37 am*
...
Adelle Davis's "Let's Get Well" from 1955 or so, if you can find a copy. She also wrote related books on eating healthy. (Let's eat right to get fit, let's have healthy children, let's cook .... etc). Her books are loaded with research refs used in writing them.
...
Seems Adele truly was a pioneer!
Adelle Davis was a visionary. When going back through her history it is amazing to realize the impact Adelle had on the most recent and popular diets that are the craze now. Dr. Barry Sears, author of “The Zone” speaks very highly of Adelle Davis and her impact on his discoveries.
Thirty years ago Adelle Davis was a supporter of Dr. Atkins, founder of “The Atkins Diet”. Adelle Davis was the pioneer of the nutritional revolution. Her teachings and writings influenced people striving for health and wellness long before our time.
http://adelledavis.org/adelle-davis/
Susan
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Magnesiac Load
Here's good research info from Japan, 2007:
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jb ... 6_439/_pdf
...Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jb ... 6_439/_pdf
...Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Magnesiac Load
Hee hee - Speak for yourself - I read Adele Davis' books hot off the press when I ran away from home as a kid to avoid surgery I did not want 
I hid out in the library and read how to repair myself in her books. The doc told my folks I would not make it to 15 if I did not have said unwanted surgery. I did not, so I must be 14 now:-)
........"long before my time"?
......Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
I hid out in the library and read how to repair myself in her books. The doc told my folks I would not make it to 15 if I did not have said unwanted surgery. I did not, so I must be 14 now:-) ........"long before my time"?
......Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: Magnesiac Load
this link does not work and a search on the jstage website is futile
need better linkage
t
From: Irene de Villiers
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 3:57 AM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Magnesiac Load
Here's good research info from Japan, 2007:
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jb ... 6_439/_pdf
...Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
need better linkage
t
From: Irene de Villiers
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 3:57 AM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Magnesiac Load
Here's good research info from Japan, 2007:
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jb ... 6_439/_pdf
...Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."