Complexity Baked into Obamacare

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

How can it be organised/influenced so that Obamacare allows Homeopathy?
Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of LuAnn
Sent: 22 October 2013 02:39
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Complexity “Baked into Obamacareâ€
The ACA has no holistic intentions in it. I am so dissappointed. It is about prescription drug management and the freaking main stay healthcare in the USA.

[Tanya Marquette]

As in Belgium and France and elsewhere, people do not believe what is
before their eyes. So they think it is an exaggeration when you say vitamins
and herbs are threatened. They also don’t believe the dangers of medical
treatment. I say this very simply to point to the double faced side of the
problem. In the mid-90’s when the DSHEA regs were passed, unanimously
if I recall correctly, it was only after a major groundswell from the public
occurred. Today, the problem is even more difficult given the increased
power of the corporation to control mass media as well as legislative bodies.
And people are hysterical about illness and go running to doctors. Even
so-called holistic practitioners support this. On a current toe injury one of
these people immediately directed me to go for X-rays and medical treatment.
Had to cut her off and remind her that the medical system would have nothing
to offer me except aggravation and exposure to their toxic offices and attitudes.
She agreed.
I think it will take a major organizing effort of many people working in coalition to
educate the public and create another major groundswell. Of course, today, we
also face the distractions of the Tea Party/Right Wing fundamentalist distractions
about the ACA and other social issues such as privatizing Social Security.
t
From: finrod@finrod.co.uk
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 6:31 AM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Complexity Baked into Obamacare

How can it be organised/influenced so that Obamacare allows Homeopathy?
Soroush

From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of LuAnn
Sent: 22 October 2013 02:39
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Complexity “Baked into Obamacareâ€
The ACA has no holistic intentions in it. I am so dissappointed. It is about prescription drug management and the freaking main stay healthcare in the USA.

[Roger B]

Remember that part of the MDs job description, a part that most people never notice, is to have lots of liability insurance that the typical complementary and alternative heal care practitioner does not have and cannot afford. So as soon as the CAM sees blood or liability oozing out of a wound, they are going to freak out and send the patient to an MD.

Roger Bird
________________________________

To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: tamarque@earthlink.net
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 07:14:12 -0400
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Complexity Baked into Obamacare

Even so-called holistic practitioners support this. On a current toe injury one of these people immediately directed me to go for X-rays and medical treatment. Had to cut her off and remind her that the medical system would have nothing to offer me except aggravation and exposure to their toxic offices and attitudes.
She agreed.

[healthinfo6]

Soroush,
Any MD in the USA is legally allowed to dispense/prescribe homeopathic remedies for medical conditions/illness regardless of knowledge in homeopathy.
Maybe you mean non-MD lay homeopaths being allowed to claim treating illness.
From a higher level viewpoint, Obamacare is actually a tax, w/o being called one, on the middle class who are quickly finding out their healthcare premiums are rising, some dramatically, to pay for subsidized healthcare for low income residents and currently uninsured.
Another view is that Obamacare is another step towards socialism in the USA.
"The changes will be hitting tens of millions of Americans in just three months, threatening to implode a tortured economic recovery that was already the weakest on record. Premium increases will come on top of staggering price hikes effected since Chief Justice Roberts personally sanctioned an Affordable Care Act that the Wall Street Journal once editorialized as “the worst bill ever.” It should be obvious to all by now why Obama is unwilling to modify it. Clearly, it was never meant to improve the quality of health care in this country, but rather to redistribute income without imposing an explicit new tax on the middle class. “The president’s health-insurance plan forces those who hire, work and produce to pay full price for health care, while creating generous discounts for practically everyone else,” noted an op-ed piece by Casey Mulligan last week in The Wall Street Journal.
Susan

[Tanya Marquette]

Susan,
You are very ill-informed on many points.
If you read my previous post, it is clear I don’t support the ACA, but
for different reasons than you give.
Without a Single Payer system that insists on price negotiation with the
drug corps there will never be meaningful health care in this country.
Your hysteria about Socialism sounds like that of the Tea Party people.
FYI, the Tea Party was formed by the same folks that brought us the KKK
only now the duped massed wear polyester and are lead by those wearing
$1000 suits. I cannot concur with your fear of Socialism. Every social
benefit for the public has always and only come about by progressive movements,
most of them being socialistic in philosophy. So what benefits in your life
are you willing to give up? Your free public education? Your parents social
security? Govt funded programs that keep millions of people working when
private industry would just as soon see them in their private prisons?
Soroush—unless there is a mass movement to force the inclusion of homeopathy
and holistic health protocols it will never change.
t
From: healthyinfo6@aol.com
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 1:18 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Complexity Baked into Obamacare

Soroush,
Any MD in the USA is legally allowed to dispense/prescribe homeopathic remedies for medical conditions/illness regardless of knowledge in homeopathy.
Maybe you mean non-MD lay homeopaths being allowed to claim treating illness.
From a higher level viewpoint, Obamacare is actually a tax, w/o being called one, on the middle class who are quickly finding out their healthcare premiums are rising, some dramatically, to pay for subsidized healthcare for low income residents and currently uninsured.
Another view is that Obamacare is another step towards socialism in the USA.
"The changes will be hitting tens of millions of Americans in just three months, threatening to implode a tortured economic recovery that was already the weakest on record. Premium increases will come on top of staggering price hikes effected since Chief Justice Roberts personally sanctioned an Affordable Care Act that the Wall Street Journal once editorialized as “the worst bill ever.” It should be obvious to all by now why Obama is unwilling to modify it. Clearly, it was never meant to improve the quality of health care in this country, but rather to redistribute income without imposing an explicit new tax on the middle class. “The president’s health-insurance plan forces those who hire, work and produce to pay full price for health care, while creating generous discounts for practically everyone else,” noted an op-ed piece by Casey Mulligan last week in The Wall Street Journal.
Susan

[drnpickell]

Interestingly enough, it was the Democrats that brought us the KKK.
And to be blunt, Susan does not appear ill informed in my reading of her post.

[Tanya Marquette]

It is neither Dem or Rep but the mentality that you can
trace back thru the years. Lincoln was Rep but his policies
would never be backed by the present GOP. And as for
Susan’s misinformation, I will leave that for another venue,
not Minutus
From: drnpickell@netscape.net
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 6:51 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Complexity Baked into Obamacare

Interestingly enough, it was the Democrats that brought us the KKK.
And to be blunt, Susan does not appear ill informed in my reading of her post.

[Irene de Villiers]

Oh you have been attending too many tea parties!

The opposite is the case.
While abhor te fact that the "Obamacare" doezs no iinclude alternative health options, it wll certanly make life less expensive and more humane for all.
Example:
Currently an uninsured person has to be sick enough to be in hospital and/or the emergency room to get ANY care. I know on local lady who spends close to 50% of her time in hospital witih incalcitrant pneumonia.They discharge her now and then, but have to readmit her when she falls ill again. SHe'd MUCH raher be able to seed a doctor occasionally and get some ongoing care. The latter woudl be FAR less expensive than the way it is now, and she'd et it under Obamacare.
She is a TYPICAL example.

Tea party propaganda is just that. They want the world to all be "their way" as per their uninformed and selfish greedy coccoon, and cannot see the wood for te trees.

My own case is another example. I was denied a prescription for diabetic test strips in 2009 as it cost $200 for what I needed. I wrote letter after letter as I could not afford them, being too ill to work. At the time my other Rx for potassium was $90 a month.
Sure enough less than a year later I had a stroke as a consequence of not being able to control my glucose.
Some Obamacare would have prevented that. Instead the ACTUAL cost to the taxpayer (of wihch I have been one sinice 1969) was 3 days emergecy room costs with MRIs, CT scans, echosounds, heart tests etc etc - multiple tens of thousands of dollars - plus an intensve care week in hospital at about a thousand a day or more - plus six months rehab to learn to talk, write, etc, unknown high cost, plus a new $3500 wheelchair I could lift with a weaker system plus its maintenance (more costly than a car) plus an increased potassium prescription of $500 a month for lfe due to damage from the stroke - for life - and that's without counting four other prescriptions I do not use, and all the extra ongoing specalist care I now need due to stoke damage that I did not need before.
And you think Obamacare will be more expensive?
No - these are examples of what it will PREVENT and how costs to the country will be slashed.

THIS is why we need Obamacare. It causes lives to become humane and costs to go down.
EVERY country that has a socialized health system - has a healthier population of whom many more CAN work and pay taxes as they DO get medical care to keep them well enough. Sweden is a great example.

So people n USA need to stop letting the selfish blinid greed of some, lead them blindly down the garden path of ignorance.
We have a despicable situation in this country where countless decent people suffer as badly as in third world countries - all for lack of a humane system of health care.

If SOME people want a different systen - fine - have that choice as well - but do not throw a large percentage of decent human beings down a minieshaft with a tail wind and pretend they are not there - many of whom COULD contribute to society in large measure if only they could get to a state of health to enable that to happen.

Since when are we allowed to treat human beings as throaways so we can pay a bit less taxes anyway - IF that was the option,
Even animals do not do that. They tend their sick and weak members.
To the question asked by Soroush:
The entire nation will need to demand it. It is hotly prevented by powers with a greed motive (drug companies and western medicine organizations, tea parties who do not know what they are about) and homeopaths lack the finances to lobby improvements in the bll drectly - they'd need to get there by more grasss roots methods.
I'm not sure if being national as opposed to state level, it may work to have a constitutional amendment as abest option. For example we need freedom of health care just as we have freedon of religion. That may be the best way to go. Even health care laws here respect health care that is religiously motivated becasue that is a constitutional right.

At state level, which is where practice of medicine laws occur (and must be changed laboriously state by state) , we may be powerless to change Obamacare to include alternative health care of any kind, not just homeopathy.
At federal level we still need state ratification, but at least it would be a longterm solution and it is one dependent on poplation opinion, not drug company and other greed-based opinions.

A huge problem is that the USA education style is one of teaching people WHAT to think, rather than teaching them HOW to think. It causes the most crazy voting results, as nobody is taught how to investigate and know the truth; instead the average person does as they are "told", perhaps by whomever shouts loudest on TV, or spends the most on propaganda and advertising - including lies, and misleading mud-slinging
Namaste,
Irene

REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Tanya Marquette]

This little article just hit my email and it seems on target for Soroush’s question.
I think this article, in a summary manner, details a very typical process that occurs when
a grass roots effort takes on an issue and pushes it into mainstream consciousness. It is totally
typical that the 1% will try and co-opt it by incorporating it into their system so it can be controlled
by them. However, if mainstream integration is a goal, this is how it can/will get accomplished.
History shows this happening over and over again.
http://truth-out.org/news/item/19603-ne ... ealth-care
tanya
From: Irene de Villiers
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 9:34 AM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Complexity Baked into Obamacare
Oh you have been attending too many tea parties!

The opposite is the case.
While abhor te fact that the "Obamacare" doezs no iinclude alternative health options, it wll certanly make life less expensive and more humane for all.
Example:
Currently an uninsured person has to be sick enough to be in hospital and/or the emergency room to get ANY care. I know on local lady who spends close to 50% of her time in hospital witih incalcitrant pneumonia.They discharge her now and then, but have to readmit her when she falls ill again. SHe'd MUCH raher be able to seed a doctor occasionally and get some ongoing care. The latter woudl be FAR less expensive than the way it is now, and she'd et it under Obamacare.
She is a TYPICAL example.

Tea party propaganda is just that. They want the world to all be "their way" as per their uninformed and selfish greedy coccoon, and cannot see the wood for te trees.

My own case is another example. I was denied a prescription for diabetic test strips in 2009 as it cost $200 for what I needed. I wrote letter after letter as I could not afford them, being too ill to work. At the time my other Rx for potassium was $90 a month.
Sure enough less than a year later I had a stroke as a consequence of not being able to control my glucose.
Some Obamacare would have prevented that. Instead the ACTUAL cost to the taxpayer (of wihch I have been one sinice 1969) was 3 days emergecy room costs with MRIs, CT scans, echosounds, heart tests etc etc - multiple tens of thousands of dollars - plus an intensve care week in hospital at about a thousand a day or more - plus six months rehab to learn to talk, write, etc, unknown high cost, plus a new $3500 wheelchair I could lift with a weaker system plus its maintenance (more costly than a car) plus an increased potassium prescription of $500 a month for lfe due to damage from the stroke - for life - and that's without counting four other prescriptions I do not use, and all the extra ongoing specalist care I now need due to stoke damage that I did not need before.
And you think Obamacare will be more expensive?
No - these are examples of what it will PREVENT and how costs to the country will be slashed.

THIS is why we need Obamacare. It causes lives to become humane and costs to go down.
EVERY country that has a socialized health system - has a healthier population of whom many more CAN work and pay taxes as they DO get medical care to keep them well enough. Sweden is a great example.

So people n USA need to stop letting the selfish blinid greed of some, lead them blindly down the garden path of ignorance.
We have a despicable situation in this country where countless decent people suffer as badly as in third world countries - all for lack of a humane system of health care.

If SOME people want a different systen - fine - have that choice as well - but do not throw a large percentage of decent human beings down a minieshaft with a tail wind and pretend they are not there - many of whom COULD contribute to society in large measure if only they could get to a state of health to enable that to happen.

Since when are we allowed to treat human beings as throaways so we can pay a bit less taxes anyway - IF that was the option,
Even animals do not do that. They tend their sick and weak members.

To the question asked by Soroush:
The entire nation will need to demand it. It is hotly prevented by powers with a greed motive (drug companies and western medicine organizations, tea parties who do not know what they are about) and homeopaths lack the finances to lobby improvements in the bll drectly - they'd need to get there by more grasss roots methods.
I'm not sure if being national as opposed to state level, it may work to have a constitutional amendment as abest option. For example we need freedom of health care just as we have freedon of religion. That may be the best way to go. Even health care laws here respect health care that is religiously motivated becasue that is a constitutional right.

At state level, which is where practice of medicine laws occur (and must be changed laboriously state by state) , we may be powerless to change Obamacare to include alternative health care of any kind, not just homeopathy.
At federal level we still need state ratification, but at least it would be a longterm solution and it is one dependent on poplation opinion, not drug company and other greed-based opinions.

A huge problem is that the USA education style is one of teaching people WHAT to think, rather than teaching them HOW to think. It causes the most crazy voting results, as nobody is taught how to investigate and know the truth; instead the average person does as they are "told", perhaps by whomever shouts loudest on TV, or spends the most on propaganda and advertising - including lies, and misleading mud-slinging

Namaste,
Irene

REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[healthinfo6]

And you think Obamacare will be more expensive?

Irene,
I'm not against Obamacare and heath care for all, only presenting what is currently happening.
Prices are increasing for drugs, doctor and hospital visits, etc and that is a fact regardless of Obamacare
Many large companies, McDonalds, Walmart, IBM etc. are telling retirees and pat time, etc to go to
the Obamacare Health Exchanges to shop for coverage as they will no longer pay for it.
Small companies have to follow certain rules resuliting in increased costs under Obamacare thus w/b hiring less full time workers and making some full into part time
These are facts.
Who do you think w/be paying for these increased costs of coverage for all especially those who can't pay?? The middle class.
If you actually believe healthcare costs w/b decreasing, sorry, it won't happen.
I've been on Medicare for almost 10 years. Prices have increased yearly along with reduced selection on EVERYTHING.
For example, Emblem Health only w/pay for Freestyle Freedom Lite meters and diabetic test strips, no other brand.
Certain drugs are not in the formularies of many Medicare Advantage insurance companies
Many doctors wi/not accept Medicare because of reduced reimbursements and this w/happen under Obanacare.
If the USA government can't reduce costs nor keep them from rising for healthcare under Medicare,
do you actually believe they will under Obamacare?
My own case is another example. I was denied a prescription for diabetic test strips in 2009 as it cost $200 for what I needed. I wrote letter after letter as I could not afford them, being too ill to work.
Under Medicare and most insurance you're allowed 7 test strips/day. I have 100s of expired Ultra strips that still work well.
I think they put expiration dates so you think you need to order new ones and the companies can make more $$$.
If you use an Ultra meter and need them, I can send them to you FREE.
THIS is why we need Obamacare. It causes lives to become humane and costs to go down.
EVERY country that has a socialized health system - has a healthier population of whom many more CAN work and pay taxes as they DO get medical care to keep them well enough. Sweden is a great example.
But Sweden isn't the USA where anyone legally and illegally can move to and receive gov't healthcare benefits.
If you move to Sweden as a non-citizen do you get coverage?
Canada? England? etc...?
Susan