Pain killers during treatment

[Ellen Madono]

Hi,

I am treating a man who has been through a lot of physical trauma during his life. He has back pain and is managing the pain with opiate derivatives and some new drug that changes the sensory nerve response to pain. He was given the second drug to replace the first, but he is actually using both.

My question is how should I approach getting useful symptoms from him? The opiates, of course, dull his emotions and thoughts in general, so the reported symptoms are very unclear. Not useful. A paucity of symptoms. He has recent herpes zolster and grief. The herpes z symptoms are pretty clear despite the drugs use to dull them. I suspect spinal cord damage from all the accidents in his life. So I am looking at the herpes zolster remedy, the grief remedy and hypericum for the spine for starters.

Under all this, there were fevers of unknown origin during his childhood. As a result his legs are weak and spindly as compared to the well developed musculature of the upper body. He discovered aspirin at age 10 and slow escalated through a very accident-proned life. I want to get at these childhood weaknesses before he goes out for spinal surgery. The doctor at that time during his childhood suspected polio, but using Ardavan Shahrdar's miasmiatic method, I got another herpes family member as the suspected cause. That leads to a short list of remedies. But a really need better symptoms for Dr. Shahrdar's method as well. So maybe I should wait for temporary drug weaning before trying the herpes z treatment.

So, I am thinking that I should treat the known and clear factors above and worry about the pain killers after that. I think if he gets good results with the above problems, he will be able to put up with a month of no pain killers just to give me clearer symptoms. Then he can go back to his pain killers and we will wean gradually when the time is right.

Would like to hear the opinion of others.

In terms of Vithoulak's level of health, he is probably the upper level of group C. No fevers or colds since 1999.

The other factors in this pain case is the previous methods of managing pain have been prescription drugs and alcohol. Would not like to have the process driving him toward alcohol, so the case really needs to approach the mental/emotionals as well as the physicals. I need non-drugged symptoms. After I get the symptoms, he can go back to his drugs as he feels necessary. Hopefully he will choose to wean as the other problems get better. The idea is not to get further involved with the medical system. Slow and easy is the best road I think. I will choose high potencies and use them frequently to get through the drugs. The man has social support and although he would tend to withdraw when he gets aggravations, I am hoping that his social support system will function. Once he begins producing aggravations, I would go down in potency maybe, especially if he can wean.

I would appreciate any advice or experience stories.

Thanks,
Ellen Madono

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

When it comes to pain treatment with unclear symptoms, as you describe, I simply use acupuncture, gentle manual medicine (ortho-bionomy and cranio-sacral) as well as herbs known to act as "painkillers" or "anti-inflammatories" (selected individually) without central, mental action while reducing the chemical drugs. Even if I cannot wean the patient totally, the doses are largely reduced and their synergy afford a higher level of comfort without the mental blurr while creating trust in the process.
It is then possible to have clearer symptoms and a better history, then proceed as usual.

Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD. "The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind". www.naturamedica.webs.com

[Ellen Madono]

Hi Dr. Roz,
This involves interviews by skype so I can't provide the manual work and am hoping a local practitioner will be sought out.
By anti-inflammatory herbs you mean herbs like boneset? I think it is in homeopathy called calendula. It is applied in application as I remmber. You are a pro with the herbs too. Wish I was. I hope they can find other help too.
But, you are saying just lower the the drug dosage so it is not causing the mental/emotional haze? Then go on with homeopathy?
Blessings,
Ellen

[Maria Bohle]

Hello Helen. I am treating a person very similar to yours. He came in more than a year ago. Had broken his back 3 times, has rods and is on methadone for pain. He was a twisted mess , was driven here by a friend. Today he is doing great. Down to less than a third of his methadone and off all other allopathic drugs. He now is driving, got his own place so is able to do for himself without a caretaker. When he came in after I finally found the constitutional many months after starting treatment I was surprised at how tall he really was. I started with pain relief remedies and I used several. Gnapthalium helped the sciatica. Symphytum. Arnica hypericum. I took the main complaints and went for them. One at a time. But he left with several remedies in aqueous dilutions. One remedy for each complaint but not mixed in one bottle. His constitutional is one of the magnesium, They tend to have very painful conditions. But wait until you get under some of that pain mess. I did not tell him to go off the pain meds. Did ask him to go off the chemical thyroid meds and get his doctors to give armour thyroid. That helped his nerves and now he can go without what he was taking to calm him down. Good luck with your case. maria

Sent from my iPhone

[Ellen Madono]

Dear Maria,
The symptoms are so general. I will have to try getting more out of him. BUt I think I can't because of the drugs. So I have to perscribe in a muh more general way. As if I were treating an acute. I guess just start there. I give arnica without all kinds of elaborate symptoms. I need to grow some hair on my heart. Courage..
Good to know the remedies that you used. I will study them.
Thanks,
Ellen Madono

[Shannon Nelson]

It could be worth taking a close look at his diet, and make whatever corrections seem indicated there.

It is also worth looking into some of the herbal and nutritional ant-iinflammatories, e.g. fish oil, turmeric, ginger, vitamin C (maybe 1000 to 2,000 mg every couple of hours through the day? If it's going to help, he will feel the difference quickly) -- there are LOTS of anti-inflammatory herbs that could help him feel MUCH better quickly, and help him wean.

Heavy aspirin use starting age ten -- so he presumably has substantial liver damage as well. Silymarin may help him feel better by helping his liver, and perhaps together with other liver support.
Calcium and magnesium can also act as really good pain reducers, in someone who is short on either or both! *Really* good. A person under chronic pain is almost certainly magnesium deficient.

Shannon

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

Of course I do not mean that everybody should practice everything, close collaboration with others is necessary. I have seen fabulous results by Japanese acupuncturists using the single needle technique, wish I could master that one....so you should not have any problem referring your patient, if he is living in Japan, that is.

There are many anti-inflammatory herbs and they must be prescribed individually, like we do in homeopathy, if we want the best outcome.
Boneset is Eupatorium Perfoliatum, not Calendula.....homeopaths should not have a big problem using herbs in their clinical applications, those are exactly the same, with an expanded set of indications thanks to the provings. Boericke did publish his use of tinctures in his practice (or someone else extracted those from his writing....).
So if you do a clinical repertorisation using Boenninghausen's method, you should get a good set of remedies, use them in low potencies (X) and that is herbalism for you.

Lower the drug dosage as much as is tolerated, but OTOH, do not impose undue suffering to the patient, especially if he is physically dependent on the drugs.

Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD. "The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind". www.naturamedica.webs.com

[Ellen Madono]

Dear Shannon,

I am now realizing that this is the kind of help that I was looking for. Thank-you

Best,
Ellen

[Ellen Madono]

Dear Dr. Roz,

I get it. I can do a Boenninghausen rep. Wow, I thought I had to learn herbalism. Now there are also all the family stuff coming from Vermeulen's plant books. So there should be plenty of help. But, just traditional stuff should be good too

He is in the US so one needle accupunture is not possible. But ordering of tinctures is easier than Japan.

I am learning multiple needle accupuncture (tuning forks actually). It is really time consuming but the balance that is attained is very complete and gentle. In a way it is like body work. There are reflex areas and point accuracy is test there.

My teachers in the US are on a much more etherical level. That sharply reduces the number of points used.

Blessings,
Ellen

[Bob Needham]

Hello Joe / Ellan

You and Ellen are opening me up to a whole new concept. I want to be sure I understand what I think your saying. If one were to use say, Boenninghausen Characteristics Materia Medica and Repertory by Boger, then the herbal remedies within that publication can be purchased as mother tinctures and X potentized to provide a herbal remedy. But is this now really a homeopathic remedy having been diluted and succussed not herbal? . If it is as you say then why not use any other repertory?

I keep thinking there is a point in here Iam missing

tks

bob