http://www.fastcompany.com/1705155/figh ... ith-tumors
Very interesting!
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Like cures Like !!!
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John Harvey
- Posts: 1331
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:00 pm
Re: Like cures Like !!!
Looks suspiciously like smoke and mirrors. Notice that there's absolutely no indication of how the success of the procedure -- without or without measurable immune response -- compares with, say, doing nothing at all.
But perhaps they're onto something that succeeds in saving some lives without entailing the patenting of a new chemical. That would be something indeed.
Cheers --
John
But perhaps they're onto something that succeeds in saving some lives without entailing the patenting of a new chemical. That would be something indeed.
Cheers --
John
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Jean Doherty
- Posts: 1576
- Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Like cures Like !!!
I knew of someone who reversed melanoma with many metastasis,liver lung,bone who is well and active today because of such a procedure.
I have located letter from her about 5 years ago and met her recently in Complete remission.
I can not send the letter but a Professor Peter Hersey led the research
http://www.newcastle.ed.. I have never understood why this treatment did not become common knowledge,
Jean
I have located letter from her about 5 years ago and met her recently in Complete remission.
I can not send the letter but a Professor Peter Hersey led the research
http://www.newcastle.ed.. I have never understood why this treatment did not become common knowledge,
Jean
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Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: Like cures Like !!!
Nothing new here. The Medical Industry has for decades been researching holistic protocols to see what they
could syphon and patent. They have known about 'like-cures-like' since the 19c and have railed against
homeopathy all that time in public while looking for what they could profit from in the shadows of their labs.
This web site is pretty noxious. Did you notice the side bar article about Wikileaks attacking corporate america
and how companies can prepare. Horrors that corp. america would see the writing on the wall and really change---
just a fantasy.
tanya
could syphon and patent. They have known about 'like-cures-like' since the 19c and have railed against
homeopathy all that time in public while looking for what they could profit from in the shadows of their labs.
This web site is pretty noxious. Did you notice the side bar article about Wikileaks attacking corporate america
and how companies can prepare. Horrors that corp. america would see the writing on the wall and really change---
just a fantasy.
tanya
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Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Like cures Like !!!
Hi John,
The comparable numbers from doing nothing at all will be available as the statistics of survivors of this type of cancer with surgery and chemo. I agree tho, wish that figure had been mentioned!
Shannon
The comparable numbers from doing nothing at all will be available as the statistics of survivors of this type of cancer with surgery and chemo. I agree tho, wish that figure had been mentioned!
Shannon
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Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Like cures Like !!!
Here's the text:
Fighting Tumors With Tumors
BY David Zax Wed Nov 24, 2010
Researchers at Dartmouth have produced a promising new cancer treatment--a personalized vaccine developed from the patient's own tumor.
The study examines patients with colorectal cancer. Dr. Richard Barth, a Dartmouth surgeon and the author of the study, operated on 26 patients whose colorectal cancer had metastasized to the liver. In such a situation, patients are expected to die from tiny undetectable metastases that escape the surgeon's scalpel.
But here's where Barth and his colleagues tried something different. They took proteins from the patient's tumor and mixed them with a certain kind of cell grown from the patient's blood. The personalized vaccines were injected into each patient a month after surgery. Barth was able to determine that about 60% of the patients developed an immune response from the vaccine.
About five years later, he was able to compare the clinical outcomes between those who had had an immune response, and those who had not. Of the group who did not have an immune response from the vaccine, only 18% were alive and tumor-free. Of the group who did have an immune response from the vaccine, 63% were alive and tumor-free--a remarkable result indeed. (The vaccine approach has the added benefit of being non-toxic, in contrast to chemo.)
The results were published this week in the journal Clinical Cancer Research. This is not the first time doctors have tried to fight fire with fire (or rather, tumor with tumor). Barth has been trying it on mice and humans for over a decade. And other clinical researchers had tried it as well--but without much success. Researchers were hoping that tumor-derived vaccines could actually attack and kill fully-grown tumors, rather than the microscopic metastases.
"It turned out we were asking the T-cells to do too much," Barth said in a press release , referring to the type of white blood cell active in an immune response. "The small number of T-cells generated by a vaccine can't destroy a large tumor. However, what they may be able to do is search out and destroy tumor cells that exist as only microscopic deposits. Once we brought patients into a measurable tumor-free condition with surgery, the anti-tumor T-cells induced by the vaccine may help keep them that way."
[Image: Flickr user Zaldylmg ]
Fighting Tumors With Tumors
BY David Zax Wed Nov 24, 2010
Researchers at Dartmouth have produced a promising new cancer treatment--a personalized vaccine developed from the patient's own tumor.
The study examines patients with colorectal cancer. Dr. Richard Barth, a Dartmouth surgeon and the author of the study, operated on 26 patients whose colorectal cancer had metastasized to the liver. In such a situation, patients are expected to die from tiny undetectable metastases that escape the surgeon's scalpel.
But here's where Barth and his colleagues tried something different. They took proteins from the patient's tumor and mixed them with a certain kind of cell grown from the patient's blood. The personalized vaccines were injected into each patient a month after surgery. Barth was able to determine that about 60% of the patients developed an immune response from the vaccine.
About five years later, he was able to compare the clinical outcomes between those who had had an immune response, and those who had not. Of the group who did not have an immune response from the vaccine, only 18% were alive and tumor-free. Of the group who did have an immune response from the vaccine, 63% were alive and tumor-free--a remarkable result indeed. (The vaccine approach has the added benefit of being non-toxic, in contrast to chemo.)
The results were published this week in the journal Clinical Cancer Research. This is not the first time doctors have tried to fight fire with fire (or rather, tumor with tumor). Barth has been trying it on mice and humans for over a decade. And other clinical researchers had tried it as well--but without much success. Researchers were hoping that tumor-derived vaccines could actually attack and kill fully-grown tumors, rather than the microscopic metastases.
"It turned out we were asking the T-cells to do too much," Barth said in a press release , referring to the type of white blood cell active in an immune response. "The small number of T-cells generated by a vaccine can't destroy a large tumor. However, what they may be able to do is search out and destroy tumor cells that exist as only microscopic deposits. Once we brought patients into a measurable tumor-free condition with surgery, the anti-tumor T-cells induced by the vaccine may help keep them that way."
[Image: Flickr user Zaldylmg ]
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Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD
- Posts: 2279
- Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Like cures Like !!!
We did that at the Institut Bordet in Brussels with melanoma, in the 1970ies; good results, somehow "forgotten".
Another earlier and less refined method was standard in Europe and it was still in my textbooks in the 70ies, called "auto-hemo-therapy" where you draw some blood from a vein and inject it back intramuscular; it causes a strong general immune reaction. I think it was and maybe still is used in Russia too.
Nobody knows about it any more........
Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com
Another earlier and less refined method was standard in Europe and it was still in my textbooks in the 70ies, called "auto-hemo-therapy" where you draw some blood from a vein and inject it back intramuscular; it causes a strong general immune reaction. I think it was and maybe still is used in Russia too.
Nobody knows about it any more........
Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com
Re: Like cures Like !!!
it is used in Russia for many different diseases. google "аутогемотерапия" and you will see a lot of links. Michael
--- On Sat, 4/12/10, Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD. wrote:
We did that at the Institut Bordet in Brussels with melanoma, in the 1970ies; good results, somehow "forgotten".
Another earlier and less refined method was standard in Europe and it was still in my textbooks in the 70ies, called "auto-hemo-therapy" where you draw some blood from a vein and inject it back intramuscular; it causes a strong general immune reaction. I think it was and maybe still is used in Russia too.
Nobody knows about it any more........
Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com
--- On Sat, 4/12/10, Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD. wrote:
We did that at the Institut Bordet in Brussels with melanoma, in the 1970ies; good results, somehow "forgotten".
Another earlier and less refined method was standard in Europe and it was still in my textbooks in the 70ies, called "auto-hemo-therapy" where you draw some blood from a vein and inject it back intramuscular; it causes a strong general immune reaction. I think it was and maybe still is used in Russia too.
Nobody knows about it any more........
Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com
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John Harvey
- Posts: 1331
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:00 pm
Re: Like cures Like !!!
It's interesting that there seems to be a good deal of experience of success in using tautopathological approaches in serious illnesses like this.
The comparison would require also a figure showing a success rate for this procedure. All we can say from the article is that it appears to be at least 18%. Given that many types of cancers have much higher five-year survival rates than that without treatment of any kind, the numbers give suggest success without actually evidencing it at all.
Cheers --
John
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Because we're supposed to have an open government—a democracy—everything the Government does is presumptively public, and can be legitimately concealed only with compelling justifications. That's not just some lofty, abstract theory; it's central to having anything resembling 'consent of the governed'."
—Glenn Greenwald, "The moral standards of WikiLeaks critics", Salon.com 1 Dec 2010, .
The comparison would require also a figure showing a success rate for this procedure. All we can say from the article is that it appears to be at least 18%. Given that many types of cancers have much higher five-year survival rates than that without treatment of any kind, the numbers give suggest success without actually evidencing it at all.
Cheers --
John
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Because we're supposed to have an open government—a democracy—everything the Government does is presumptively public, and can be legitimately concealed only with compelling justifications. That's not just some lofty, abstract theory; it's central to having anything resembling 'consent of the governed'."
—Glenn Greenwald, "The moral standards of WikiLeaks critics", Salon.com 1 Dec 2010, .