Fear of the Invisible book on viruses & polio and AIDS and HIV

[Irene de Villiers]

The opposite is possible - the virus can copy some DNA from the cell
being invaded, and make use of it by adding it to its own viral DNA.
In fact this is the mechanism of feline leukaemia type A for example
- the virus causes leukaemia directly, but when it replicates it also
swipes part of the feline genome which when added to the virus
genome, codes for lymphoma.

The article Sheri cited claims the entire viral genome is
incorporated in the DNA and that is not possible.

What else is possible I do not know. Some discussions:

Suriya may be talking about a small piece of DNA that codes fro
something specific like a protein? I did not see what she wrote.
I do not know of such a thing.

Viral DNA is very big - 10,000 base pairs - so I can not buy that the
entire viral genome would ever be incorporated into the host cell. It
would change the function of the host cell if it did, into a mishmash
of viral activity and prior activity. So I do not buy "the viral
genome added to the DNA" as Sheri's author claims. I think it was the
author's lack of understanding of how the virus DNA lines up with and
uses cell DNA *mechanism* for making copies.

If we are looking for a miasm mechanism:

In a resistant individual the virus can NOT use the DNA to reproduce
itself.
I do not know why that is at a chemical level from any research - but
I suspect it is to do with what genes are physically accessible - how
methylated or acetylated they are and how close they are physically
to the joined aresa between two legs of a chromosome.

We DO know that genes can be switched on or off by any number of
outside influences including diet. (The mechanisms are methylation of
a gene or acetylation of a gene. The idea is that a gene can be
switched on (accessible for use) or not, by these processes. Whether
viruses can acetylate/methylate genes i do not know. Depends whether
they have the chemistry to do it?
But that would be separate from incorporating their DNA into the cell
- as in gene splicing.

I suspect methylation/acetylation of genes is how miasms get
started (rather than gene splicing) and it is also how miasms get
removed by homeopathy. Allopathic research shows diet of the
grandmother in utero - affects the chronic diseases of the
granddaughter. Same on the male side except one is beneficial change
and hte other is detrimental change. The point is that there is a
known inherited "something or other" (that allopathy has now proved
beyond doubt) and which is acquired by a prior generation (usually at
least 2 prior it seems) and passed down, and which affects chronic
diseases in those later generations.

Splicing does not make sense to me as a miasm mechanism as it does
not affect all cells including sex cells.
Methylatikon/acetylatioon does affect the body systemically so would
affect ALL cells incloouding sex cells, and thus be heritable.

Another aspect that may be relevant somewhere:
Genes are on chromosomes that look like a pair of long wiggly legs
joined somewhere along their length. At that join the legs are held
so close together that access to genes "in the crack" for use in any
way - so as to copy the DNA for a protein to make that protein (or I
surmise for access to use it for viral replication) is impossible. So
sometimes that join is strong and excludes some genes and sometimes
not. That's another way genes can be switched on/off.

This is a new area of research called epigenetics - in which one
studies how genes are switched on or off. The latest research I saw
shows how genes can be affected in one generation (being switched on
or off by outside influences especially nurtrition was mentioned) and
then the result shows up only 2 generations later, and from then
onwards, as chronic disease susceptibility.

I have not seen anything about a virus inserting DNA into the cell
DNA. This would require ability to chop out a piece (of itself??).
in addition the only cells that pass down DNA to offspring are the
sex cells. So THEY would have to be involved - not as in HIV, the
blood cells. Each virus has a type of cell they have the envelope
protein to enter. They can and do not affect all cells.
So I am having a hard time seeing a mechanism by which viral DNA can
be inserted without scrambling the cell protein activity coding, much
less getting to sex cells and being viable for combination with
another sex cell so as to be heritable.

So personally I would find a mechanism for miasms far more credible
if it had more to do with nutrition, methylation or acetylation (as
that affects ALL the cells and their gene on/off status, including
sex cells). I'd also think a methyation/acetylation trigger (to
switch on or off) could MAYBE (no evidenece or proof I know of) come
from a virus. It would be a small piece of DNA - but it would not
need to be in the genome DNA - it can be extra nuclear DNA or
mitochondrial DNA. I do not think we can prove at this point, whether
that the main chromosomal DNA is the miasm carrier:-)

We do know a virus does this:
To replicate requires aligning with the DNA to be borrowed in order
to use it like a photocopy machine to make a copy. The DNA is thus
copied (using some cell proteins to "run" the copy machine so to
speak) - but the DNA is not affected directly. So the virus
replication occurs inside the cell nucleus but does not add/'subtract
cell DNA, just copies it.

I personally have not seen research where a virus splices genes into
cell DNA.
Except fro a small specific protein I'd find it hard to even imagine.
And see no use for that except to change the local activity of the
cell so affected.

For me, the money for miasms is on epigenetics, not DNA splicing.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Luise Kunkle]

Hi Irene,

Well, while I do know the *basics* of genetics, I do not know enough
to have an opinion on most of the things you said.

As to Suriya's statement: she had mentioned it before, but I cannot
find the mail right now. Here is what she said some months ago on
Beyondhomeopathy:

*********
I also recall that in pathos in many cases the original pathogen is
still
present although in many cases in altered form .
Example in psoriasis there have been found genetic material that show
HPV
virus DNA. reference
http://www.pasteur.fr/actu/presse/com/c ... /HPV5.html
*************

Looking at the site: from the abstract it is hard to tell what
*exactly* is meant, one would have to get the full article.

I should very much like to have a link to more research on this. I
hope that Ardavan will comment - I assume that his theory of inherited
viral miasms are based on this kind of research - and before I wholly
embrace his theories I would indeed like to have links to the
respective research.

For, if your supposition is right, as far as the epigenetics are
concerned, I cannot see how viral miasms could be inherited - which
also throws doubt on Hahnemann's Miasm Theory, since there is no doubt
that H. considered miasms to be what we now call infections.

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

[Irene de Villiers]

Luise (and all),
I did some further looking into the question of a virus (eg HIV)
inserting its genes into the host cell DNA.
Apparently it is not ridiculous nor impossible as I believed! Though
the reasons I thought it was ridiculous still stand. The virus is
smarter - specifically the lentivirus subgroup of Retroviruses
specifically - has a 3 level technique for getting around the
"impossibility" issues and doing this gene insertion:

(HIV is a subgroup of lentivirus which is a subgroup of retrovirus.
Lentivirus always has a long dormant phase. Lenti=slow.)

The lentivus is always an RNA virus and it is impossible to insert
RNA into a DNA genome. (So I believed and technically that is still
valid.) BUT the lentivirus carries a gene for a protein which can
copy DNA off of RNA (reverse transcriptase = RT) - thus this enzyme
can turn RNA into DNA. Darn sneaky.
So the virus enters the cell, hi-jacks cell machinery to use its RT
gene so as to turn its own viral RNA genome into DNA.
That is still not enough to get it into the DNA of the host cell. To
do that requires still another enzyme (integrase). Lentivruses also
have the gene to make integrase however - so they hijack the cell
machinery again, make integrase, and THAT allows insertion of the DNA
version of the retrovirus into the DNA of the host cell.
So that must be what Suriya was discussing?

The insertion of lentivirus RT-DNA happens in a random place,
so it might also disrupt other genes if it happens to be included in
the middle of one. Mot that he virus cares! But basically this dirty
trick allows the virus to continue to be present for the life of the
cell AND to make new lentiviruses to infect still more cells.
In the case of the HIV lentivirus, the disease-causing gene
for HIV which is part of the lentivorus RNA - is thus also turned
into DNA and integrated into the host cell DNA.]

Ugh!
Viruses get up to some awfully mean tricks.

So I was wrong in thinking that the HIV virus made of RNA can not get
into a DNA genome.
I hope this helps set that right.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Irene de Villiers]

Once a gene has been switched on or off by methylation or acetylation
- it stays that way and is inherited that way.
To me that is a possible explanation of miasm inheritance and it also
explains how homeopathy can remove a miasm - by reversing the process
of gene methylation/acetylation.

What I think we definitely need to include in any miasm theory, is
that ONLY germ cells (sperm, egg) carry genetic material to the next
generation. So if miasms involve genetic material they should
logically involve germ cells. Hence changes to other cells besides
germ cells, are not likely to be involved in miasms.

So I like epigenetics as it CAN explain a change in the genetics
including those of germ cells, which is then passed on to future
generations.
What it does not explain is the finding in recent research that
involves inheritable disease susceptibility that develop;s in the
womb during pregnancy but is not seen as disease till 2 generations
later, in the grandchildren of the ones affected while in the womb.

Somehow - I'd like to see the two concepts "meet". The one found in
this new research - and the homeopathic miasm aspect.
I do not have enough data in cat breeding for example to know if new
miasms take a couple generations to cause problems.
And homeopathy does not seem to tell me how far back (in generations)
a miasm originates either, does it?

DNA was previously considered static. And to a large extent it is -
but the ability to switch genes on or off - is now well documented as
happening and well documented as heritable in the new on or off state.
I DO see miasms develop; eg in cats in response to severely
suppressed infections you do get miasms that are inherited and which
persist for many generations - so I have no doubt Hahnemann was
right. But could miasms not ALSO be developed through gene
acetylation/methylation (or other mechanism) as a result of things
other than infections - such as nutritional stress, chemical stress,
etc - why consider only infection stress?

My work with FIP disease show that mutations to pathogenic infecetion
occur due to many differnet stresses - and indeed I did not list it
but infection is one of those triggers:
Example: I had a case where the main stress was bordetella
bronchniseptica infection (deadly in kittens) which however the
kitten survived longer than usual and then FIP took over. There was
no other major stress to this kitten besides the infection - to cause
the FIP mutation.
Once the FIP (A much stronger disease - see my article in Mar Hpathy
for more) was overcome, the Bordetella immediately reappeared of
course, to be treated as well.

I see "stress" as physical, chemical, disease, emotional - all are
forms of stress which lead to illness, and the body gives way somehow
when there is too much stress from ANY cause. Can we be sure
stressors for causing a miasm do not include all stressors?
ALL stressors can lead to disease.
ALl stressors can cause viral mutations
ALL stressors can lead to epigentic changes that are inherited.

If epigentic changes and miasms are not the same thing - they at
least have similar inherited results.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Luise Kunkle]

Hi Irene,

Wow - this IS interesting!

I guess there is no reason that the virus cannot also
the cells of the reproductive system (?) - e. g. when they are still
diploid.

Postulating that not only the Retroviruses have the abilities you
described, there is indeed a strong base to Ardavan's theory.

This of course raises the question whether an inherited miasm can ever
be eradicated by any treatment whatsoever - or whether treatment can
just help the body to compensate.

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

[Luise Kunkle]

Hi Irene,

Yes, I should think that what you describe could also be inherited -
at least my scanty knowledge does not allow me to think otherwise.

There used to be the strict dogma that accquired characteristics
cannot be inherited. I suppose that this will in not to far future end
up in the rubbish bin - although it was supported by lots of research.

Where we are back to our favourite controversion. The research (where
done properly) was correct and still is - as far as it went. But it
did not go far enough so that the conclusions had to be erroneous.

And thhis is IMO still true for to-day's state of things!

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

[healthinfo6]

Sheri,

When you meet with "her" you may be actually meeting with "him".

Per Janine Roberts: She was born a male, lived 21 years as a male,
following two years of medical assessment, in 1975 decided that she
should stop living as male and live as a woman. Her psychiatrist
said she is a hermaphrodite (which means having both male and female
sex organs but here only refers to brain structures). She feels she
is transgendered, a female brain in a male body.

"But the transgendered state is totally natural, part of the rich
variety of life. "Transgendered" people are born in every culture, in
every age. There are about equal numbers of "male to females"
as "females to males." There are naturally few of us but I believe we
are made thus by our Creator. It is a natural blessing, not a curse."

"I must confess a personal involvement in this issue. I was aware of
being wrongly assigned from 4 years of life. When I started school
the other children acutely observed this and the boys teased me
mercilessly. By the time I went to secondary school I had my defences
and pretences in place. I then tried to escape by training as a
Christian missionary. It was a nightmare but 21 years ago I finally
got it sorted. Since then I have been simply and happily at home in
myself as a woman, getting on with life - tackling major companies as
an investigative journalist. My main hassles in recent years have
been those faced by all women. It jibes very badly with me when I
find my views ignored or when I am otherwise put down as a woman. I
also hate feeling so vulnerable to male violence."

She was teased fairly mercilessly for her female body language by the
boys... They say she is a 'girl' - she denies it and becomes highly
asthmatic with stress. From now on she is haunted by the thought that
she has been placed among boys by mistake.

She says in 2000 after being brutally beat up during her De Beers
diamond cartel research, "At the time I was assaulted I had been
happily living as a woman for nearly 20 years - and even my lovers
did not know unless I told them!"

Transgender does not equal gay, thus, she means male lovers?

As a physical male, how could her lovers not physically notice?

Since she is a UK resident, how has homeopathy helped her?

She was married and fathered a daughter pre-1975. She has been
living "as a woman" since.

Why has she not had a sex change operation from a man to a woman?

Has she/is she taking female hormones?

Is she just living in drag as a woman?

She uses the terms trangender and transexual in different places.

"...that such people as her are looked on as having a gift that makes
them good material for training as a shaman or for spiritual
leadership"

She also has the "advantage"(?) of not experiencing monthly
menstruation, not going through menopause. She's got the best of
both, thinking like a female without having to suffer as one!

I have read that the blood type, AB-, the rarest, also is the most
spiritual. Can you ask her what her blood type is?

Susan

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Sheri Nakken
wrote:
etc)
pages)
http:/
/www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0955917727/wellwithinA/
21/202-2017433-
62>
21/202-2017433-62
Industry
prions."
with diseases.
http://www.rethi
nkingaids.com/tabid/122/Default.aspx
http://www.wellwithin1.com/vaccine.htm

[healthinfo6]

Since it was you posting about Janine Roberts's HIV book, I immediately didn't give it much consideration and wasn't too
interested in learning more about the author and other exposes. The topic of HIV not causing AIDS is very old and tired along with Gary Null's discussing it and now your sudden interest in sensationally promoting it.

Further reading of her personal struggle and angst, which I did not know of, is more interesting to me. Not to attack as you are so quick to react in Pavlovian manner, but to understand. Being persecuted and attacked for gender issues forms one's behavior and can provide the impetus to do these investigations. Have you watched Boys Don't Cry?

She mentions homeopathy on one website but not if or how she may have used it. Excuse me for trying to connect a cause of yours not directly related to homeopathy to it. It shouldn't matter if HIV causes AIDS or not if you're truly a classical homeopath. Nor would a truly classical homeopath use homeopathy lists to promote their own non-homeopathic agendas. We don't see this "pathetic behavior" on these lists except for yours. I find your use of the term Hahnemannian Homeopath in your signature a real contradiction, if not "pretty disgusting". Do you think Hahnemann would conclude that HIV does not cause AIDS or would he care? How are you promoting "health and healing" vs. disharmony and discord? You've ignored all factual information from those more knowledgeable and better equipped to discuss it. You don't know any gay people who are HIV positive to learn what transpires from initial HIV diagnosis to AIDS illness?

Laurie Garrett wrote The Coming Plague back in mid-1990's concerning AIDS, Ebola, and other emerging viruses. Maybe it is not sensational enough and too scientific for you to consider reading. While she does not discuss HIV not causing AIDS she brings up many related points to the fight on AIDS without all the histrionics. An updated article by her is at:

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20050701f ... -aids.html

Since Janine Roberts invokes humor about her own transgender issue and encourages discussion about it my questions may seem to read as flippant but are genuine.

While I sincerely feel some compassion for her now where none existed before, I do question her mentioning that she is living as a woman but is physically a man and her lovers won't know unless she tells them. Does that imply she is using deception as a coping mechanism? If so, how can we overlook that and 100% believe there is total honesty in all these investigations?

This is not an attack on her, but an attempt to better understand her and her motives.

Susan
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Sheri Nakken wrote:

[Tanya Marquette]

the one example that i remember from the pbs program on epigenetics concerned
the impact of the potato famine in ireland. the consequences were seen differently in
men and women 2+ generations after the famine period.
it seems to me that if the emotional and physical stress (starvation) from the famine
is not exactely the same as the hahnemannian miasms, then we have a much more
complicated format to map out and understand, but perhaps it is not so different, if
at all. hahnemann, as brilliant as he was, still worked with limited knowledge of many
natural processes. he worked on suppositions based on his observations at the time.
it is up to practitioners today to continue his process of observation while also being
able to apply current 'science.' as we know science today is no less biased than it
was in the 18-19c, so we are again left with our powers of observation to direct us
clearly.
tanya

[Carrie Schreiber]

Speaking of transgender issues:

I've just returned from a Gender conference with a friend who is beginning to make decisions about their transition after a lifetime of consideration and worry. The enormity and complexity of this journey overwhelms me, as a support person, at times. I agree that we have so much to learn from our trans brothers and sisters as they have examined life and society in such a deep and personal way.

As health care providers, I'm glad to see this topic acknowledged. How can homeopathy support someone in this extreme form of a life transition? I did give calla lilly flower essence about 9 months ago and I observed significant forward motion in my friend being able to talk more freely about their feelings around gender, as well as seek out resources (counseling, support group, conference). Before this, the issue was pushed aside as they focused on being a good citizen and attending to the family.

I'm curios if anyone has experience in supporting transgender people through their transition with homeopathy.

Thanks,

Carrie
"When I see women like that I wonder if they are softer or tougher than me." --from Sonya after seeing a woman in Fairbanks on a -10 F degree day walk in high heels across a parking lot.