I have a new patient Female 54 yo, perimenopausal, who has high serum calcium – has been steadily rising over last 2 years but has reached a point where DRs want to remove the parathyroid gland!!! Have given her 5 weeks – if not down by then surgery goes ahead. She is new to Homeopathy.
Her levels are 2.78 mmoles /L (2.25-2.65 = normal range) nothing else in her bloods is abnormal – she is not really presenting with any marked symptoms to prescribe on. The constitutional remedy that is coming up is Calc carb . Does anyone have any experience in treating this??? And avoiding the allopathic surgery??? Miasmatically I would have considered her Tubercular. Thanks in advance for any help Regards Pauline
high serum calcium
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: high serum calcium
Pauline Ashford wrote:
Sweeping one problem under the carpet only opens up a host of others
instead, (such as no more PTH to help the kidneys excrete phosphate - a
definite potential cause for kidney damage, not to mention the feedback
loops between parathyroid and thyroid regarding calcium metabolism),
it's not solution.
And the 5 week ultimatum is not a solution either.
Have you analysed the diet to see if diet is the cause of the rising
serum calcium?
For example, bone releases calcium into the serum if the dietary fat is
incorrect or the dietary Vit D3 is incorrect.
There are multiple entities involved in the metabolism of calcium: the
hormones parathyroid (PTH), calcitonin (thyrocalcitonin or TCT),
1,25-dihydroxycholecalciferol (1,25-DHCC, a biologically active form of
vitamin D3 - see the current Scientific American for a quick overview of
D3), and the intestine, kidney, liver, thyroid gland, parathyroid gland,
and bone. If calcium is not kept in the bone (such as by Vit K1 or K2,
then it will leach out to blood serum. It will also do that if calcium
is undersupplied. There is a whole balance to be maintained b etween
bone reabsorption and leaching calcium out of bone.
The form of calcium is different in each place too - phosphate in
bone - and can be ions in the blood or can be bound by oxalates (most of
which are NOT from dietary oxalate).
Since the metabolism in general changes at perimenopause, and hormones
scale down or up in different proportions than before - then unless the
diet changes along with that - there will be imbalance - just from diet
- not from disease.
I would eliminate/correct that first as it is the most likely cause.
It's not wildly off scale in my opinion (and I am NOT a doctor, just a
student of nutrition) for a person whose body is adjusting - but she
needs help adjusting her diet to suit I would suspect.
My view is that no remedy can correct the diet.
It can assist the body in absorbing what's eaten - IF the right things
are eaten.
Also - is the ionized calcium level of the serum normal - or aqlso
elevayted?
[For example in pregnancy the calcium will not read normal but the
*ionized* calcium - the available to use calcium - WILL stay normal.]
It may be that dietary issues cause calcium to be bound in the blood so
that there is excess unusuable calcium and the body is keeping the ionic
and usable calcium at normal levels? Just a thought?
Calcium has lots of functions but it must be able to cross cell
memebranes - and to do this it needs the active form of Vit D3 known as
1,25 DHCC = dihidroxycholechalciferol, which is more like a hormone
(formed from UV reaction with cholesterol in the skin) than a vitamin
due to its wide number of functions in the body.
Has your client got enough cholesterol in the skin and enough UV light
on her skin daily to generate enough of this active form of D3?
If not the calcium will be unable to cross cell membranes to where it is
needed - and since the kidneys can only excrete a finite amount per day,
calcium will "collect" in the blood serum and rise over time.
If there is not enough from sunshine on the skin daily (20 mins with 1/3
of body exposed daily makes 10,000 IU of D and after that the body stops
making it - and research also shows 10,000 IU to be a good daily
availability amount contrary to suggested amounts by various official
bodies in USA) - lack of D3 is a common problem in northern latitudes
of USA.
Another big factor in calcium metabolism is the fat in the diet - and
the source of it. It's too common to get it from seed oils (sunflower,
flax, canola etc) - all a bad source - instead of a good source like
fish oil and extra virgin olive oil. Some saturated fats interfere with
calcium metabolism as well.
Vit K1 or K2 is also relevant as it helps calcium be in the bones where
it belongs, and not leach out to blood serum. (High source of K1 is
spinach, collard or dandelion greens. K2 is from fermented products like
yogurt and kefir; K3 is artificial and does not help calcium metabolism.)
So these are just a couple of starter ideas for dietary investigation,
if you feel so inclined.
Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
Sweeping one problem under the carpet only opens up a host of others
instead, (such as no more PTH to help the kidneys excrete phosphate - a
definite potential cause for kidney damage, not to mention the feedback
loops between parathyroid and thyroid regarding calcium metabolism),
it's not solution.
And the 5 week ultimatum is not a solution either.
Have you analysed the diet to see if diet is the cause of the rising
serum calcium?
For example, bone releases calcium into the serum if the dietary fat is
incorrect or the dietary Vit D3 is incorrect.
There are multiple entities involved in the metabolism of calcium: the
hormones parathyroid (PTH), calcitonin (thyrocalcitonin or TCT),
1,25-dihydroxycholecalciferol (1,25-DHCC, a biologically active form of
vitamin D3 - see the current Scientific American for a quick overview of
D3), and the intestine, kidney, liver, thyroid gland, parathyroid gland,
and bone. If calcium is not kept in the bone (such as by Vit K1 or K2,
then it will leach out to blood serum. It will also do that if calcium
is undersupplied. There is a whole balance to be maintained b etween
bone reabsorption and leaching calcium out of bone.
The form of calcium is different in each place too - phosphate in
bone - and can be ions in the blood or can be bound by oxalates (most of
which are NOT from dietary oxalate).
Since the metabolism in general changes at perimenopause, and hormones
scale down or up in different proportions than before - then unless the
diet changes along with that - there will be imbalance - just from diet
- not from disease.
I would eliminate/correct that first as it is the most likely cause.
It's not wildly off scale in my opinion (and I am NOT a doctor, just a
student of nutrition) for a person whose body is adjusting - but she
needs help adjusting her diet to suit I would suspect.
My view is that no remedy can correct the diet.
It can assist the body in absorbing what's eaten - IF the right things
are eaten.
Also - is the ionized calcium level of the serum normal - or aqlso
elevayted?
[For example in pregnancy the calcium will not read normal but the
*ionized* calcium - the available to use calcium - WILL stay normal.]
It may be that dietary issues cause calcium to be bound in the blood so
that there is excess unusuable calcium and the body is keeping the ionic
and usable calcium at normal levels? Just a thought?
Calcium has lots of functions but it must be able to cross cell
memebranes - and to do this it needs the active form of Vit D3 known as
1,25 DHCC = dihidroxycholechalciferol, which is more like a hormone
(formed from UV reaction with cholesterol in the skin) than a vitamin
due to its wide number of functions in the body.
Has your client got enough cholesterol in the skin and enough UV light
on her skin daily to generate enough of this active form of D3?
If not the calcium will be unable to cross cell membranes to where it is
needed - and since the kidneys can only excrete a finite amount per day,
calcium will "collect" in the blood serum and rise over time.
If there is not enough from sunshine on the skin daily (20 mins with 1/3
of body exposed daily makes 10,000 IU of D and after that the body stops
making it - and research also shows 10,000 IU to be a good daily
availability amount contrary to suggested amounts by various official
bodies in USA) - lack of D3 is a common problem in northern latitudes
of USA.
Another big factor in calcium metabolism is the fat in the diet - and
the source of it. It's too common to get it from seed oils (sunflower,
flax, canola etc) - all a bad source - instead of a good source like
fish oil and extra virgin olive oil. Some saturated fats interfere with
calcium metabolism as well.
Vit K1 or K2 is also relevant as it helps calcium be in the bones where
it belongs, and not leach out to blood serum. (High source of K1 is
spinach, collard or dandelion greens. K2 is from fermented products like
yogurt and kefir; K3 is artificial and does not help calcium metabolism.)
So these are just a couple of starter ideas for dietary investigation,
if you feel so inclined.
Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
muthu kumar
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 10:00 pm
Re: high serum calcium
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Pauline Ashford "
wrote:
Hi Pauline-
If the constitutional comes up with Calc, then go for it... after all
calcium from outside is one of the reasons for calcium to go up in the
body.Consider other caliums - esp. Calc.ars-
Since it is around menopausal time - any of the remedies for
menopausal conditions might be considered- get any kind of symptom
that can help you zoom in on one of these?
Get some of the symptoms from the past - could be related to any other
problem that she might have had and consider that with the present
group of symptoms that you might use for working this out- get a
detailed menstrual history, kind of menses and problems around that
time if any - was there any problem during menarche?
Was there something else that happened around 2-3 years period just
before it started?
How was it diagnosed? What was the reason this was suspected and
diagnosed?
Lithium metabolism, thyroxine, beryllium, tuberculosis etc. could
cause this and so could play a role in cure. Lithium carb?
Thyroidinum, Bacillinum?
You could try cross referencing goitre and menopause as well...
are there no symptoms of the calcium problem? stones?
wrote:
Hi Pauline-
If the constitutional comes up with Calc, then go for it... after all
calcium from outside is one of the reasons for calcium to go up in the
body.Consider other caliums - esp. Calc.ars-
Since it is around menopausal time - any of the remedies for
menopausal conditions might be considered- get any kind of symptom
that can help you zoom in on one of these?
Get some of the symptoms from the past - could be related to any other
problem that she might have had and consider that with the present
group of symptoms that you might use for working this out- get a
detailed menstrual history, kind of menses and problems around that
time if any - was there any problem during menarche?
Was there something else that happened around 2-3 years period just
before it started?
How was it diagnosed? What was the reason this was suspected and
diagnosed?
Lithium metabolism, thyroxine, beryllium, tuberculosis etc. could
cause this and so could play a role in cure. Lithium carb?
Thyroidinum, Bacillinum?
You could try cross referencing goitre and menopause as well...
are there no symptoms of the calcium problem? stones?
Re: high serum calcium
Something else to consider with calcium levels is that lead acts to
block it's use, maybe causing high blood levels but low tissue
levels. If tests are being relied on as indicators of illhealth, it
would be good to have a hair analysis to get a better picture of what
is really happening to the mineral balance in the body. If the blood
level of calcium is too high then the clacium/magnesium ratio should
also be skewed giving symptoms of dyspnoea on exertion, muscle
weakness,and a tendency to cramp and spasm - when you say all other
tests are normal....how exhaustive is the testing? have they done a
magnesium level as well? Insisting on more tests may buy a bit of
time to delay the surgery. Perhaps some encouragement to resist
medical bullying and get second opinions may help.
Also Grant Bentley puts Calc Carb into his Tubercular Miasm
classification according to facial bone structure.
Gail.
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Pauline Ashford "
wrote:
serum
reached a point
weeks -
else in her
symptoms
Calc carb .
Tubercular.
block it's use, maybe causing high blood levels but low tissue
levels. If tests are being relied on as indicators of illhealth, it
would be good to have a hair analysis to get a better picture of what
is really happening to the mineral balance in the body. If the blood
level of calcium is too high then the clacium/magnesium ratio should
also be skewed giving symptoms of dyspnoea on exertion, muscle
weakness,and a tendency to cramp and spasm - when you say all other
tests are normal....how exhaustive is the testing? have they done a
magnesium level as well? Insisting on more tests may buy a bit of
time to delay the surgery. Perhaps some encouragement to resist
medical bullying and get second opinions may help.
Also Grant Bentley puts Calc Carb into his Tubercular Miasm
classification according to facial bone structure.
Gail.
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Pauline Ashford "
wrote:
serum
reached a point
weeks -
else in her
symptoms
Calc carb .
Tubercular.
Re: high serum calcium
And more thoughts - if she has 'no real symptoms' why is she having
blood tests done? what makes her think she needs medical monitoring?
I guess I can understand that being threatened with an operation may
prompt her look for a less aggressive alternative in homoeopathy -
but why does she think she isn't well in the first place?
Gail
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" wrote:
what
blood
should
5
the
blood tests done? what makes her think she needs medical monitoring?
I guess I can understand that being threatened with an operation may
prompt her look for a less aggressive alternative in homoeopathy -
but why does she think she isn't well in the first place?
Gail
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" wrote:
what
blood
should
5
the
-
Pauline Ashford
- Posts: 246
- Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:00 pm
Re: high serum calcium
Hi thankyou to everyone for their great info it has been a big help - finally got to see her today and have a full discussion regarding her last visit to DRs - turns out that the levels have been out for about 2 -3 years since her father died and there was a family 'feud' re the settlement of his affairs and money - she felt very left out and isolated by her brothers and sister in law at this time -??is it the oyster undoing her shell to be seen more???? Thanks for your suggestions Hahnemannian. The Calc carb seems very much the remedy on her history so I am going to go in that direction for now with an LM.
It was picked up first in a routine blood test checking her cholesterol levels - which are OK and the Calcium is now lower than it was in the previous 2 tests. The Dr is not an endocrinologist?? Has not been referred to one - as far as I can find out this GP hasn’t even done PTH or Calcitonin studies yet but seems to be in a rush to send her off for surgery! Dr now tests her regularly - has booked her in for a thyroid scan next week so at least perhaps is looking at maybe low Calcitonin rather than assuming it is high PTH??. Interestingly - I had given her Calc carb after a bout of pneumonia, that had long lasting debility post the allopathic treatment, late last year (forgot I had seen her this once - I usually only see her husband)
She reported today that she had only just started to get back her musculoskeletal aches stiffness and pains about 2 months ago after she 'ran out of that medicine you gave me then" ?? so I feel this puts Calc carb definitely in the picture.
I have given her a list of questions and instructions that need to be satisfied by Dr and tests before I would evenb consider that it is coming from the parathyroid - she doesn’t want the surgery - so will hang in for much longer than the 5 weeks before even considering going to an endocrinologist.
Thanks Irene for your great nutritional info - it backed all that I had prepared - and answered some of my questions also. I am studying nutrition and nutritional biochemistry at present so this is right in my area of study and any advanced info is always gratefully received and I appreciated all the time and effort that has gone into your answer for me.
The suggestions re hair analysis is something I had not thought of so thankyou Tove and Gail I will get her to do this before treatment so I have a baseline.
Again thanks Regards Pauline
It was picked up first in a routine blood test checking her cholesterol levels - which are OK and the Calcium is now lower than it was in the previous 2 tests. The Dr is not an endocrinologist?? Has not been referred to one - as far as I can find out this GP hasn’t even done PTH or Calcitonin studies yet but seems to be in a rush to send her off for surgery! Dr now tests her regularly - has booked her in for a thyroid scan next week so at least perhaps is looking at maybe low Calcitonin rather than assuming it is high PTH??. Interestingly - I had given her Calc carb after a bout of pneumonia, that had long lasting debility post the allopathic treatment, late last year (forgot I had seen her this once - I usually only see her husband)
She reported today that she had only just started to get back her musculoskeletal aches stiffness and pains about 2 months ago after she 'ran out of that medicine you gave me then" ?? so I feel this puts Calc carb definitely in the picture.
I have given her a list of questions and instructions that need to be satisfied by Dr and tests before I would evenb consider that it is coming from the parathyroid - she doesn’t want the surgery - so will hang in for much longer than the 5 weeks before even considering going to an endocrinologist.
Thanks Irene for your great nutritional info - it backed all that I had prepared - and answered some of my questions also. I am studying nutrition and nutritional biochemistry at present so this is right in my area of study and any advanced info is always gratefully received and I appreciated all the time and effort that has gone into your answer for me.
The suggestions re hair analysis is something I had not thought of so thankyou Tove and Gail I will get her to do this before treatment so I have a baseline.
Again thanks Regards Pauline
-
muthu kumar
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 10:00 pm
Re: high serum calcium
You are welcome Pauline -
Since she was on Calc and still got this - wonder how Calc is fitting
into this - is this being brought out by Calc, or is it not going deep
enough - potency issues - or is this probably leading to some other
remedy. I would probably stick to Calc but also kind of be on the look
out for something that might have to follow it -
It is interesting to note that Leprosy could cause increased calcium
levels and is her mental state in some way related to the miasm or
nosode??? I would probably keep that in mind as well....
leprosy miasm is explained thus:
Leprosy Miasm (Vakil)
Lepers have suffered enormously through history. The condition is
slowly progressive and eventually leads to death. However, even more
disturbing to the patient is the reaction of those around him. He is
reviled by his friends and community. Where they looked at him with
affection they now feel loathing. This results in a desperate state of
self-disgust and self-hatred. He feels contempt with his condition and
towards himself or others. He desires to tear, mutilate or bite
himself. He suffers from suicidal thoughts or impulses, depression,
morbid obesity.
her last
-3 years
settlement of his
brothers and
be seen
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Pauline Ashford "
wrote:
Since she was on Calc and still got this - wonder how Calc is fitting
into this - is this being brought out by Calc, or is it not going deep
enough - potency issues - or is this probably leading to some other
remedy. I would probably stick to Calc but also kind of be on the look
out for something that might have to follow it -
It is interesting to note that Leprosy could cause increased calcium
levels and is her mental state in some way related to the miasm or
nosode??? I would probably keep that in mind as well....
leprosy miasm is explained thus:
Leprosy Miasm (Vakil)
Lepers have suffered enormously through history. The condition is
slowly progressive and eventually leads to death. However, even more
disturbing to the patient is the reaction of those around him. He is
reviled by his friends and community. Where they looked at him with
affection they now feel loathing. This results in a desperate state of
self-disgust and self-hatred. He feels contempt with his condition and
towards himself or others. He desires to tear, mutilate or bite
himself. He suffers from suicidal thoughts or impulses, depression,
morbid obesity.
her last
-3 years
settlement of his
brothers and
be seen
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Pauline Ashford "
wrote:
-
Rosemary C Hyde PhD
- Posts: 392
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: high serum calcium
Another question to look at is whether she's taking high doses of vitamins.
Vitamin A, for instance, can result in elevated serum calcium. For what
it's worth.
Rosemary
Vitamin A, for instance, can result in elevated serum calcium. For what
it's worth.
Rosemary
-
Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
-
Pauline Ashford
- Posts: 246
- Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:00 pm
Re: high serum calcium
HI Hahnemannian – I actually think that the condition had improved after the Calc carb – as the last 2 readings are lower than the initial one the DR was so worried about. 2 highest ones were before the Calc carb – one of the lower tests was just the 2 days after the first dose of Calc and then the other 2 months after she ran out of the Calc carb – would love to have seen what the reading would have been when she was taking it?? I didn’t give instructions to keep taking it other than if the fatigue or lung stuff (couldn’t ascend or descend stairs without SOB) returned she could repeat it then which was what she had done. So if the musculoskeletal stuff had returned after she ran out ??? maybe the Calcium readings could have gone down while she was on it and risen again when the symptoms returned.?? She came back because of the reading but also because she had felt so well after my treatment she thought she’d get my opinion about it before thinking about surgery.
She came originally post pneumonia when DR wanted to put her on a steroid inhaler for the SOB when using stairs or walking up hill and didn’t want to take steroids.
Anyway time will tell as she is going to have a retest in 5 weeks so I ‘ll be able to see if there is any change.
Again thanks to all for your help. I find that bouncing ideas between us all creates much more complete thought patterns for me – its always such a help.
Regards to all Pauline
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hahnemannian2002
Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2007 12:46 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Minutus] Re: high serum calcium
You are welcome Pauline -
Since she was on Calc and still got this - wonder how Calc is fitting
into this - is this being brought out by Calc, or is it not going deep
enough - potency issues - or is this probably leading to some other
remedy. I would probably stick to Calc but also kind of be on the look
out for something that might have to follow it -
It is interesting to note that Leprosy could cause increased calcium
levels and is her mental state in some way related to the miasm or
nosode??? I would probably keep that in mind as well....
leprosy miasm is explained thus:
Leprosy Miasm (Vakil)
Lepers have suffered enormously through history. The condition is
slowly progressive and eventually leads to death. However, even more
disturbing to the patient is the reaction of those around him. He is
reviled by his friends and community. Where they looked at him with
affection they now feel loathing. This results in a desperate state of
self-disgust and self-hatred. He feels contempt with his condition and
towards himself or others. He desires to tear, mutilate or bite
himself. He suffers from suicidal thoughts or impulses, depression,
morbid obesity.
her last
-3 years
settlement of his
brothers and
be seen
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com , "Pauline Ashford "
wrote:
She came originally post pneumonia when DR wanted to put her on a steroid inhaler for the SOB when using stairs or walking up hill and didn’t want to take steroids.
Anyway time will tell as she is going to have a retest in 5 weeks so I ‘ll be able to see if there is any change.
Again thanks to all for your help. I find that bouncing ideas between us all creates much more complete thought patterns for me – its always such a help.
Regards to all Pauline
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hahnemannian2002
Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2007 12:46 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Minutus] Re: high serum calcium
You are welcome Pauline -
Since she was on Calc and still got this - wonder how Calc is fitting
into this - is this being brought out by Calc, or is it not going deep
enough - potency issues - or is this probably leading to some other
remedy. I would probably stick to Calc but also kind of be on the look
out for something that might have to follow it -
It is interesting to note that Leprosy could cause increased calcium
levels and is her mental state in some way related to the miasm or
nosode??? I would probably keep that in mind as well....
leprosy miasm is explained thus:
Leprosy Miasm (Vakil)
Lepers have suffered enormously through history. The condition is
slowly progressive and eventually leads to death. However, even more
disturbing to the patient is the reaction of those around him. He is
reviled by his friends and community. Where they looked at him with
affection they now feel loathing. This results in a desperate state of
self-disgust and self-hatred. He feels contempt with his condition and
towards himself or others. He desires to tear, mutilate or bite
himself. He suffers from suicidal thoughts or impulses, depression,
morbid obesity.
her last
-3 years
settlement of his
brothers and
be seen
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com , "Pauline Ashford "
wrote: