ORGANON 6:14

[Luise Kunkle]

Hi Irene,
Prove no - but I can consider it very unlikely.

Hepatisation occurs as part of pneumonia - and AFAIK no prover got
pneumonia from a proving. I also consider it improbably that a proving
- as differentiated from poisoning - skewed the immune system.
If it is there, yes. I doubt that it is there.
Yes, that is what I mean. Many of our symptoms are dervied from that,
i.e. from experience and from poisonings. In a discussion this tends
to be acknowledged, but in discussin general principles of homeopathy
we keep referring to the provings as absolute base.

and it would make sense to add in symptoms from lab tests
Yes - it also would make sense to include them in the modern
provings in order to find out whether indeed there are changes. If we
find there are, there should be re-provings of the old ones to
ascertain the changes of lab values.

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

[Irene de Villiers]

Luise Kunkle wrote:

I agree.
Thanks for the discussion.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Ellen Madono]

Hi Irene,
Are there MM's of clinical data? I know there is a book called the Prescriber by Clark. Full of herbal and clinical experience. Is the information so nuanced that you just need to have an encyclopedic mind that memorizes the literature? Or a very good background in pathology so the homeopathic clinical literature just plugs into what you already know?
Blessings,
Ellen

[Irene de Villiers]

Ellen Madono wrote:

Hi Ellen,
I do not know of one. I make extensive use of the National Library of
Medicine to understand the nature of the diseases I work with per the
newest research - and then I use the lab tests and diagnostics for
further insight.
As I work so much with cats, the research for them is in its infancy
and it is hard to keep up but one has to keep up as well as being able
to extrapolate from other research. I have great respect for good formal
research.
How to use the information is sometimes intuitive no doubt through
a process of integrating it with prior knowledge. (I do have a rather
extensive background of formal training in biological sciences).
I don't memorize the literature but I work in a fairly limited area
(about 75% is cats and about 50% of that is FIP - but I do not do many
cases per week due to personal health constraints) - so that if I branch
out I will research the disease presenting including the formal research
on it so as to be up to date as much as I can on the specific case - and
I keep up to date as best I can on the areas where I concentrate more
frequently.
For example when I discovered there was a new diagnostic test for
FIP in 1998, I had a most helpful discussion (by phone) with the
developer as he learned new things about FIP during the course of his
research on developing the test.
Another example: I also work with Bordetella bronchiseptica in cats and
a few years back the gene code for the organism was fully mapped out.
This taught me that the organism codes for an alkali in the lungs (which
would deplete esential alpha lipoic acid there) - so that I was able to
counter this with a suitable supplement as well as understanding that
the cat would FEEL as if its lungs were chemically burned (since they
were). It helped me understand why the cough a cat does in this illness
looks so like a hairball upchucking motion - the cat is trying to
upchuck its burned lungs. This then led to rubrics..........

So - How to convert lab tests and research information to rubrics is
not my only concern - I also believe strongly in nutritional support and
appropriate supplements, so new information might help me in
repertorizing or it may help in areas other than repertorizing - or both.
There's a lot of this aspect too as I do find it essential to understand
the pathology of the disease wherever it is a known one. One can look up
a disease that presents and which is less known to one - and I believe
it is essential to do that - but prior knowledge helps a lot. Merck
manual, Pubmed, discussion lists and other sources are available and the
internet is a great communication and information tool we have that
others before us did not have - which also gives access to other experts
or others with appropriate experience etc.

I'm not sure if that answers your question - I think we all have inputs
from out past experience and education and somehow these become valuable
along with newly discovered information. One can never know enough:-)
It's a matter of doing the best we can.

NAmaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Ellen Madono]

Thanks Irene. I registered with the NIH site.

You really do need a good biological background to use the kind of research that you use. I think a lot of the angry attacks that come your way concerning combos etc are partly a result of differences in biological background and the extent to which people use their backgrounds. I am not convinced that you are arguing with similar commitments.

Blessings,
Ellen

[Paul Booyse]

Hello irene,

c>ytokine measurements, and perhaps echosound of thymus - nothing visible

These are examples of medicinal disease, something which hahnemann
differentiates from miasmatic disease, i.e. it is an artificial disease. He
says that this is only cured by the vital force, if we take care not to
further damage the VF and lower vitaility, i.e. good nutrition, lifestyle
adaptation and time. The internal disease is the one which can be treated by
a simillimum, while the externally introduced disease does not not have a
true simillimum.

Now the argument arises, what about cases where the patient gets a
homeopathic remedy and gets better after such artificial damage? There are
a few points. Firstly, the patient already had an underlying miasm (chronic
disease) which is progressively weakening the VF. The remedy works on that,
to allow the VF to recover to a path of eventual homeostasis (we hope). In
so doing, the VF is allowed to recover and repair the damage by the
medicinal toxin. The big weakener of the Vf was psora, so Sulphur, the king
of anti-psorics, has been useful in such cases. It may even be that certain
drugs, in their poisoning, cause an aggravation of existing psora. Consider
that penicillin actually contains sulphur in its molecular structure, so in
this crude form may cause it's rash as a kind of psoric aggravation (without
being a simillimum).

Then sulphur, on a dynamic level may lead to cure.

Whata hahnemann is saying is that the internal disease state, i.e. that
which cause the derangement from within, is always manifest as signs and
symptoms. Even the lab tests you speak of are not really going to help in
the choice of simillimum, unless you try the clinical approach, giving e.g.
chelidonium because it's a liver condition, etc. This approach is often a
path to failure. Some benefit is usually temporary and the miasm continues.
To treat that liver patient, you need to to take a proper case, and the
derangement will reveal itself, perhaps in the delusions, emotions,
sensations or other signs and symptoms.

Regards,
Paul

[Irene de Villiers]

Paul Booyse wrote:

I'm sorry but I do not agree in the case of FIP. I would agree it was
"medicinal" only if all one was seeing was the damage from the medicine
....but that is not the case. The above refers not to the FIP disease,
but if yo follow the rest of what was said at the time - it goes on to
differentiate between what predisposes the disease - makes it possible
to occur - and then the actual disease is a separate issue involving a
virus which changes the immune system into its own machine of destruction.

The damage done by the virus to pervert the activity of the immune
system into one of destruction of the cat's body, is not medicinal or
artificial.
If one did this with FIP - and it has been done a lot and by many - the
result is quick death.
FIP is an internal disease. It is the perverted immune system that
kills. The virus reprograms the immune system to kill the cat. that's
internal in my book - it's not to do with the skewed immune system which
is a precursor that makes the cat susceptible and which CAN be remedies
more readily as an external disease.
FIP is not a drug disease - the damage is not caused by drugs - only the
predisposition is partly caused by the body's stress response (not toxic
response) to drugs and other stressors. Thereafter the actual illness
arises IF there is the FIP virus added to the mix, and the illness has
to do with a perverted reprogrammed immune system.
But the lab tests do help. For example if there is anemia that's
included, if there are high liver enzymes then I include liver
inflamamtion; if there is ascites, I include that.
No, that is allopathic.
One can consider chelidonium in damaged liver cases at a material level
as an appetite stimulant supplement in the right dose.
The FIP cases I work with have no miasm or other illness afterwards;
they either die from the FIP soon or get healthy.
One has to take the full case of all cases needing homeopathy in my
view:-)) Some cases do not need homeopathy - but all FIP cases do.

Example of case not needing it: Cat has hyperesthesia and is itching all
over, twitching its skin on the back, occasionally vomiting. It delivers
kittens that are half the usual size, some with birth defects and some
born dead.
A look at the food reveals that alfalfa is an ingredient.
Alfalfa is toxic to cats and the symptoms fit - so the need is for
correct nutrition, detox perhaps to help it with Vit C, and that's all.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Paul Booyse]

Hello Irene,
Correct. I was referring to he vaccination issue only.
Yes, pretty much as figwarts cause sycosis or syphyllis causes the
syphyllitic miasm.

Regards,
Paul

[Irene de Villiers]

Paul Booyse wrote:

Ah - okay - email is somehow not always a perfect medium is it:-)
thanks for writing,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."