online case

[Arun]

Hi all,

sorry about the earlier post - got it sent when it was not complete

i thought it would be interesting to find the source of the rubric "light
desire for".
there are 10 drugs given in Kent's repertory - Acon, Amm mur, Bell, Gels,
Calc, lac can, Nat mur, Ruta, Stram, Valer

i searched (using EH)and the results are given below. Abbreviations used
: h1 - Materia medica Pura, h2 - chronic diseases, hr1 - guiding symptoms,
a1-allen's encyclopedia
Aconite:
¤ Desire for light; photomania.(hr1)
- Desire for light, longing to look into the bright light (h1)

Ammonium mur
In the evening, burning and closing of the eyes, as from drowsiness, which
passed off when light was brought in (h2)

Belladonna
- Desires light, but shuns company (hr1)

Calc carb
Before going to sleep in the evening, anxious thoughts, which passed and
came again; the also supposed the objects around to be different from what
they were, feared the dark and endeavored to look into the light; all of
this ceased on the passage of flatus. (h2)

Gelsemium
¤¤ Thirst for light. (hr1)

Lac caninum
|| Must have light, yet is intolerant of sunlight. ð Diphtheria (hr1)

Natrum mur
Woke at 2 A. M. in perspiration, and with a distressing anxiety, as though
he were shut up in a dark cellar; this sensation only disappeared on
perceiving light through a window (a1)
Sttramonium
¤¤ Mania for light and company, cannot bear to be alone (hr1)
* Complained of its being dark, wanted a light (candle) (a1)

Valeriana
Better from light; agg in dark. (hr1)
i didn't find anything for ruta, but it is compared in the "relations"
section of lac can in "guiding symptoms", as are most of the other drugs in
the rubric
- Must have light, yet is intolerant of sunlight; diphtheria
(Acon., Amm.mur., Bellad., Calc. ac., Calc. ostr., Gelsem., Ruta,
Stram )

from this it does seem that Kent has taken the rubric mostly from Hering,
and uses the word "light" in the way most of us would use it.

Of course it does not mean that these drugs *cannot* have the symptom of
desire knowledge, enlightenment etc.
but first of all it should be confirmed clinically, just like any other
symptom (and it should be a clinical symptom is it not, or has the symptom
already been proved / confirmed by someone else?)

and if some of those drugs did have it, it would be because of its ability
to produce that symptom, and *not* because those drugs are given in the
rubric "light desire for". those are two entirely different symptoms -
especially if we remember that the drugs were grouped under the rubric based
on the provings, and not on the *interpretation* of the symptom

regards,
Arun

[Arun]

Hi all,

sorry about the earlier post - got it sent when it was not complete

i thought it would be interesting to find the source of the rubric "light
desire for".
there are 10 drugs given in Kent's repertory - Acon, Amm mur, Bell, Gels,
Calc, lac can, Nat mur, Ruta, Stram, Valer

i searched (using EH)and the results are given below. Abbreviations used
: h1 - Materia medica Pura, h2 - chronic diseases, hr1 - guiding symptoms,
a1-allen's encyclopedia
Aconite:
¤ Desire for light; photomania.(hr1)
- Desire for light, longing to look into the bright light (h1)

Ammonium mur
In the evening, burning and closing of the eyes, as from drowsiness, which
passed off when light was brought in (h2)

Belladonna
- Desires light, but shuns company (hr1)

Calc carb
Before going to sleep in the evening, anxious thoughts, which passed and
came again; the also supposed the objects around to be different from what
they were, feared the dark and endeavored to look into the light; all of
this ceased on the passage of flatus. (h2)

Gelsemium
¤¤ Thirst for light. (hr1)

Lac caninum
|| Must have light, yet is intolerant of sunlight. ð Diphtheria (hr1)

Natrum mur
Woke at 2 A. M. in perspiration, and with a distressing anxiety, as though
he were shut up in a dark cellar; this sensation only disappeared on
perceiving light through a window (a1)
Sttramonium
¤¤ Mania for light and company, cannot bear to be alone (hr1)
* Complained of its being dark, wanted a light (candle) (a1)

Valeriana
Better from light; agg in dark. (hr1)
i didn't find anything for ruta, but it is compared in the "relations"
section of lac can in "guiding symptoms", as are most of the other drugs in
the rubric
- Must have light, yet is intolerant of sunlight; diphtheria
(Acon., Amm.mur., Bellad., Calc. ac., Calc. ostr., Gelsem., Ruta,
Stram )

from this it does seem that Kent has taken the rubric mostly from Hering,
and uses the word "light" in the way most of us would use it.

Of course it does not mean that these drugs *cannot* have the symptom of
desire knowledge, enlightenment etc.
but first of all it should be confirmed clinically, just like any other
symptom (and it should be a clinical symptom is it not, or has the symptom
already been proved / confirmed by someone else?)

and if some of those drugs did have it, it would be because of its ability
to produce that symptom, and *not* because those drugs are given in the
rubric "light desire for". those are two entirely different symptoms -
especially if we remember that the drugs were grouped under the rubric based
on the provings, and not on the *interpretation* of the symptom

regards,
Arun

[Arun]

Hi all,

sorry about the earlier post - got it sent when it was not complete

i thought it would be interesting to find the source of the rubric "light
desire for".
there are 10 drugs given in Kent's repertory - Acon, Amm mur, Bell, Gels,
Calc, lac can, Nat mur, Ruta, Stram, Valer

i searched (using EH)and the results are given below. Abbreviations used
: h1 - Materia medica Pura, h2 - chronic diseases, hr1 - guiding symptoms,
a1-allen's encyclopedia
Aconite:
¤ Desire for light; photomania.(hr1)
- Desire for light, longing to look into the bright light (h1)

Ammonium mur
In the evening, burning and closing of the eyes, as from drowsiness, which
passed off when light was brought in (h2)

Belladonna
- Desires light, but shuns company (hr1)

Calc carb
Before going to sleep in the evening, anxious thoughts, which passed and
came again; the also supposed the objects around to be different from what
they were, feared the dark and endeavored to look into the light; all of
this ceased on the passage of flatus. (h2)

Gelsemium
¤¤ Thirst for light. (hr1)

Lac caninum
|| Must have light, yet is intolerant of sunlight. ð Diphtheria (hr1)

Natrum mur
Woke at 2 A. M. in perspiration, and with a distressing anxiety, as though
he were shut up in a dark cellar; this sensation only disappeared on
perceiving light through a window (a1)
Sttramonium
¤¤ Mania for light and company, cannot bear to be alone (hr1)
* Complained of its being dark, wanted a light (candle) (a1)

Valeriana
Better from light; agg in dark. (hr1)
i didn't find anything for ruta, but it is compared in the "relations"
section of lac can in "guiding symptoms", as are most of the other drugs in
the rubric
- Must have light, yet is intolerant of sunlight; diphtheria
(Acon., Amm.mur., Bellad., Calc. ac., Calc. ostr., Gelsem., Ruta,
Stram )

from this it does seem that Kent has taken the rubric mostly from Hering,
and uses the word "light" in the way most of us would use it.

Of course it does not mean that these drugs *cannot* have the symptom of
desire knowledge, enlightenment etc.
but first of all it should be confirmed clinically, just like any other
symptom (and it should be a clinical symptom is it not, or has the symptom
already been proved / confirmed by someone else?)

and if some of those drugs did have it, it would be because of its ability
to produce that symptom, and *not* because those drugs are given in the
rubric "light desire for". those are two entirely different symptoms -
especially if we remember that the drugs were grouped under the rubric based
on the provings, and not on the *interpretation* of the symptom

regards,
Arun

[Arun]

Hi all,

sorry about the earlier post - got it sent when it was not complete

i thought it would be interesting to find the source of the rubric "light
desire for".
there are 10 drugs given in Kent's repertory - Acon, Amm mur, Bell, Gels,
Calc, lac can, Nat mur, Ruta, Stram, Valer

i searched (using EH)and the results are given below. Abbreviations used
: h1 - Materia medica Pura, h2 - chronic diseases, hr1 - guiding symptoms,
a1-allen's encyclopedia
Aconite:
¤ Desire for light; photomania.(hr1)
- Desire for light, longing to look into the bright light (h1)

Ammonium mur
In the evening, burning and closing of the eyes, as from drowsiness, which
passed off when light was brought in (h2)

Belladonna
- Desires light, but shuns company (hr1)

Calc carb
Before going to sleep in the evening, anxious thoughts, which passed and
came again; the also supposed the objects around to be different from what
they were, feared the dark and endeavored to look into the light; all of
this ceased on the passage of flatus. (h2)

Gelsemium
¤¤ Thirst for light. (hr1)

Lac caninum
|| Must have light, yet is intolerant of sunlight. ð Diphtheria (hr1)

Natrum mur
Woke at 2 A. M. in perspiration, and with a distressing anxiety, as though
he were shut up in a dark cellar; this sensation only disappeared on
perceiving light through a window (a1)
Sttramonium
¤¤ Mania for light and company, cannot bear to be alone (hr1)
* Complained of its being dark, wanted a light (candle) (a1)

Valeriana
Better from light; agg in dark. (hr1)
i didn't find anything for ruta, but it is compared in the "relations"
section of lac can in "guiding symptoms", as are most of the other drugs in
the rubric
- Must have light, yet is intolerant of sunlight; diphtheria
(Acon., Amm.mur., Bellad., Calc. ac., Calc. ostr., Gelsem., Ruta,
Stram )

from this it does seem that Kent has taken the rubric mostly from Hering,
and uses the word "light" in the way most of us would use it.

Of course it does not mean that these drugs *cannot* have the symptom of
desire knowledge, enlightenment etc.
but first of all it should be confirmed clinically, just like any other
symptom (and it should be a clinical symptom is it not, or has the symptom
already been proved / confirmed by someone else?)

and if some of those drugs did have it, it would be because of its ability
to produce that symptom, and *not* because those drugs are given in the
rubric "light desire for". those are two entirely different symptoms -
especially if we remember that the drugs were grouped under the rubric based
on the provings, and not on the *interpretation* of the symptom

regards,
Arun

[Lisa Barrett]

Dear All,

firstly I do know what the repertory was designed for. It is an index of
all the symptoms in the MM. Because some people limit themselves to
believing that it is just an index they cannot use it to truly piece
together and understand a remedy. This requires some indepth thinking and
understanding matched also with clinical practice to verify what you have
understood.

Thank you Arun for your proving symptoms:

In Gelsemium we see t he symptom

Before going to sleep, anxious thoughs, which passed and came again,
supposed the objects around to be different from what they were, feared the
dark and endeavoured to look into the light.

This is what I have been using for Desire for light this is the closest the
prover has expressed to enlightenment. The reason most of these remedies
Desire the Light is because they fear the Dark. What is the dark, but the
unknown.

So as in Rochelle's case to take it back. She was ringing because she didnt
know what her symptoms were she was looking to Rochelle for an answer. This
is desire for Light it comes from a Fear of the Dark a fear of the unknown.
It is completely different to Curious. Curious has no fear. It will say "I
wonder what these symptoms are" it has not the same intensity because it is
not fear driven. Again I have to say this has to be the State of
Disposition of the person. So if someone asks you a question it doesnt
necessarily mean they desire light.

The easiest way to test this is the ask around the disease process when the
patient is most uncompensated. With Rochelle's case their was disccusion
with Joy and others where Injustice was brought up as a possible rubric and
it may well be that is the centre, but to check this if you go back to the
uncompensated state when they are in pain and suffering you will be able to
know for sure. e.g if it is injustice she will feel it is unjust that she
has to suffer these symptoms this can be obtained by careful questioning.

I will give two examples: A child with asthma when asked how he felt about
his asthma said: it is not fair I want to play football and do karate like
my friends but I cant with this asthma. This was Injustice cannot support
and coupled with 2 other rubrics completely cured his asthma and he is now
on the football team and taken his karate belts.

Another child with chronic tonsillitus said:

It is not fair I keep getting these sore throats my friends arent ill all
the time. I have to miss parties and having fun with my friends. I want
them to go away.

Again Injustice Cannot support and Mood repulsive and Weeping from
admonitions led to Ignatia
Now this is just the microcosm of the macrocosm. If you want to test this
in a wider sense you can see if the injustice is their in their general
life. The child with the sore throat was always sticking up for to
underdog.

I am quite happy to do the comparison between differences of Affectation
between, Hyos, Plat and Lyc. It is quite lenghty so I will do it as soon as
I can.

I think it is really beneficial that Arun came up with the proving symptoms
and hopefully others may find more.
Lisa Barrett

[Piet Guijt]

Dear, Dear, Dave,

I tried to make a point to you, but I already knew it would have not too
much affect upon you.
Lisa asked you some questions about remedies.
She asked also something about Sulphur.
Lets take look at this remedy, this will be more interesting for the Minutus
discussiongroup than the former stuff with you.
This remedy has: 'Indifference, personal appearance, to', and certainly no
'Desire for light', on the contrary I would say: It has: 'Delusion old rags
are as fine silk', which means he does'nt want to see reality as it is, but
lives in his own created wealthy world.(Delusion of wealth).
He can't admit he does'nt understand something because he a 'Fear of
poverty' and has 'Delusion he is a great person'. He also makes no effort
to understand those things, because he also has: 'Business, averse to'.
Because of this he will make statements, on how he thinks things are
(Theorizing'), but to lazy to be well informed, again no reality. He likes
to argument for the sake of the argument.
This all will lead to: Foolish behaviour, happiness and pride.

- SULPHUR:

A/F embarrassement.
DELUSION, disgraced, she is.
DELUSION, thin, he is getting.
DELUSION, wealth, of.

Sankaran:
The feeling of Sulphur is of being insulted, scorned, rejected, suppressed
and criticized, with hurt pride. He is expected to be good in his
appearance, relationship and work, witch include knowledge, talent and
capabilities (ego & honour).
The main feeling of Sulphur and Sulphates to be scorned and rejected and we
see the coped up personality as one who makes effort (struggle) so that the
above feelings are minimized or avoided.(struggle for honour & ego).

Seghal:
About the mental set up he feels that he is losing grit, guts or
self-confidence. Getting thin is a condition witch is not acceptable to him.
The feeling of being wealhty is opper most in his mind and any doubt about
it in any way is not liked by him. The basic thought of 'DELUSION, wealth
of' is always occupying his mind which keeps him satified

Interesting remedy and so educational, don't you agree Dave?

Kind regards, Piet

[Lisa Barrett]

Some thoughts about the case.

To me the feel of the case is one of Anguish with the pain.

She says often that the pain makes her feel she wants to die.
That she has harmed herself.

A rubric that comes to mind is DEATH DESIRES FROM ANGUISH
and SELF TORTURE. Which takes it to Belladonna.

More in depth expressions of the patient could be brought out with deeper
questioning.
Lisa Barrett

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

I think this case will demonstrate the relationship of remedies in acute and
chronic.

When this woman is not in pain, she is not suicidal. In fact she is full of
life.

So I think she needs Sulphur LM to start the case and she should be armed
with Bell (say 200) so that if and when she has an acute of this hx, she can
take it.

Soroush

[Joy Lucas]

Dear all,

here is a cured case you might want to work on and guess the remedy. Hope
you find it interesting.

Best wishes, and have a great weekend. Joy Lucas
Case
Female, aged 24. Presenting complaint - eating disorders.
Her mother came to the consultation with her.

The moment this client walked into my room the first thing I noticed wasn't
her thinness as she had a thick coat on but it was the look on her face. She
had the look of fear, her eyes wide open in, what I took at first to be,
astonishment or anticipation. But this look stayed with her the entire time
and as I observed her more I came to realise that it was really her eyes
which were slightly protruding - this is what gave her the look.

Underneath her thick coat she wore a thick jumper but her emaciation was
still obvious.

Her mother starts to talk about her daughter straight away, without giving
her the chance to speak for herself. But after a few moments the daughter
starts yelling at her mother to shut up and go away.

Now normally I am not keen to have a partner, relative or friend accompany
the client for any great length of time, but having said that if they do
arrive without telling you it is always good to hear and see what happens as
it can be most revealing - as in this case.

Mum says - "You see, it is like this all the time. All I want her to do is
eat properly, I love her and I don't want her to die, but she shouts at me
all the time."

Having now proved her point Mum doesn't say another word for quite a while.

I ask my client what she would like to talk about as a way in to her
problems. But she just sits there looking extremely nervous.

Finally, "I don't want to be here, I want to go home." This is said in a
quite tantrum like way, in a voice and tone which sound much younger than
her 24 years.

I decided to sit it out and wait and took the opportunity to observe her:

Skin bad - lots of spots around the mouth and lips (like a crop of cold
sores).
She had a habit of touching her head, same spot, all the time and also
pulling her knees up together and wrapping her arms around them.
Now I realise her eyes are protruding slightly because she is looking around
the room. The eyes are also quite red as though she has been crying.

I ask her if she would like me to put the television on, or would she like a
book to read. She asks me to close the curtains. Why? She just shrugs her
shoulders. I close the curtains, at which point she asks me to turn the fire
on as she is cold (the room is actually already heated and very warm) and
then asks for some water, she insists on mineral water. Fortunately I bring
the whole bottle to her because she drinks nearly 3 glasses very quickly.
Then she asks to go to the bathroom. I tell her I will chat to her mum 'til
she comes back. She doesn't reply.

Mum starts to tell me the story:-

"It (her eating habits) started after her father and I split up and my new
partner comes to live with us (11 months ago). I think she was jealous, now
when I look back. She just stopped eating but I didn't really have time for
her, I was involved with my own problems and trying to build a life. I
thought she would be leaving home anyway. Now she won't let me near her and
she just shouts at me all the time. It is like I am the child not her."

"She drinks water all the time, but she will be throwing up in your bathroom
now, I am so sorry about that. She gets a lot of diarrhoea. I know because
it happens in her bedroom. She is so thin and weak, I thought she had cancer
but she wouldn't go to the doctor."

No blood in the stools.

I ask about the eruptions on the face. "This is recent. 2 weeks ago she
wouldn't get out of bed, said she had pains all over her body and couldn't
move properly. She was so weak. She stayed in bed for 3 days then this skin
things starts. I thought is was measles or chicken pox. She never had either
as a child. But it is only round her face and some on her neck now. I know
she eats, I hear her getting up in the night but she throws up all the
time."

Her daughter then shouts from the bathroom - "I know you are talking about
me, stop it. I can hear you, I'm listening to you."

We sit in silence for another 5/10 minutes.

At this point I am reasonably sure that I will not get anymore information.
On the form that I give my clients to fill in, the mother had written that
there was a family H/O cancer and diabetes.

When the daughter comes back in to the room I ask if she is alright - she
actually smiles but doesn't sit down again, or say anything. I invite her to
talk to me for a while but she puts her coat on, still nervously touching
her head and face. She sees some flowers in a vase and goes over to smell
them. Next to the vase is a little bowl of lavender flowers - (people love
to crush and smell them - this didn't become significant until much later) -
she took a small pinch of this lavender and put it in her pocket, smiles at
me again. She obviously now wants to leave. I ask her if she will come and
see me again. "I might and then I might not."

What an extraordinary case. There was so much I hadn't been able to ask -
especially her menstrual and sleep patterns. But somewhere in me I was
confident that this girl had told me all I needed to know. I had only a
short while until the next client so I immediately wrote down the absolute
basics of this case so I didn't lose the feel of it.

Anxious expression
Always telling her mum off - shouts at her
Suspicious - listening to us from the bathroom
Jealous - of mum's new partner
Thirsty
Taciturn
Herpectic like eruptions on face
Photophobia
Won't eat
Involuntary diarrhoea
Vomiting after eating and drinking
Protruding eyes
Smells flowers and takes Lavender
Good luck. A clue... the remedy isn't Lavender!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Nancy Siciliana]

Hi Joy,

So...did you give her Aconitum?

Anxious expression- its there as a 3
Always telling her mum off - shouts at her--a big remedy in the "shreiking" rubric
Suspicious - listening to us from the bathroom--also big in the "suspicious" rubric
Jealous - of mum's new partner--this is her mother's speculation. It may be true, however, that the mom's new relationship could play a role in etiology
Thirsty-in there!
Taciturn-in there!
Herpectic like eruptions on face--its not in my Kent's, but Dryness of lips is there--and also these eruptions could be the result of vomiting
Photophobia-Acon is a 3
Won't eat-its in "appetite wanting" as a 2
Involuntary diarrhoea-not in the involuntary part, but in the diarrhea part
Vomiting after eating and drinking--esp after drinking, Acon is a 2
Protruding eyes - Aconite is a 3
Smells flowers and takes Lavender-- a nice, purple flower that grows in a similar pattern to Aconitum, on the stem--but its blossoms are much, much smaller!

Aconite is also in the rubric MIND, Gestures, makes; convulsive, spasmodic--the repeated "touching" gestures you mentioned
And with all that clothing on, so little body fat, and the desire to turn the fire on, she must have been freezing right in front of you.