Therapeutic Vit C and associated issues

[Irene de Villiers]

Simon King wrote:
Hi Simon - Why do you think this?
That is - Why do you say that you think Vit C can deplete minerals and
especially Magnesium?
And why do you think Magnesium asorbate is an appropriate form of
Magnesium to supplement?

Vit C if anything conserves other nutrients - as it is the most amazing
substance and can pinch-hit for many other nutrients which may be
depleted - taking over detox work for them even when you may not fully
know what else may be deficient - and it is able to use antioxidant
capacity in an amazing array of toxic issues.

I can not think of any way in which it would deplete minerals
(including magnesium) - well perhaps vanadium if used in very large
amounts - you'd need to give Vit C by IV as bowel tolerance limits what
can be given by mouth (and this technique is used in manic-depressive
disorder where vanadium is considered too high).
Vit C may actually *increase* iron absorption - very useful in
Leukaemia and other anaemias. and it's a way to increase Magn esium
absorption in that IF iron is deficient it prevents magnesium absorption
- but if you add Vit C, iron uptake increases, and so does the Magnesium
uptake that was inhibited by low iron.

But I am interested to hear why you think Vit C would deplete magnesium?

Instead - Vit C reduces stress by supporting manufacture of adrenal
hormones (along with Vit B6 and pantothenic acid) and thus reduces the
strain on the nerves and hence reduces the need for and consumption of
magnesium, as a nerve nutrient.

Vit C also protects against calcium problems such as might be caused by
calcium oxalate, in that Vit C prevents the binding of calcium to form
such stones. (There's good research on this - the chemical detail is
longer than my short wording here.)

As a nutrient Vit C helps ensure proper production of a whole host of
important healing such as thyroxin, phenylalanine, tyrosine, also
converting folic acid to folinic acid (hence its importance in the
recent poisonings from pet food); it protects the other nutrients
against oxidation and protects the brain from free radical damage
....and the list goes on, of things that affect a sick individual and
which Vit C can help with no toxicity issues. It only lasts 3 or 4 hrs
in the body before excretion - but (sadly IMO) only a certain amount can
actually be absorbed and the rest is excreted as is:-)) One has to keep
providing it.
It can be quite hard to provide enough Vit C to reach therapeutic
levels in a sick individual due to the huge rate at which it is used up
and needed in such cases. It's hard to over-supply it!!!
People with sickle cell anemia may need to be careful of excess -
but in normal people Vit C enhances red blood cell formation.

I also do not understand why you lke Mag ascorbate.
It's not one I ever use.
If I can get it, I'll use Magnesium chloride to supplement magnesium due
to a beneficial effect found in research in Italy in ALL chronic
diseases. In high amounts it has cured cases that are resistance to
other treatments. It's not clear what the mechanism is - but it makes a
big difference.

In USA it is hard to get Magnesium Chloride as such (It's hygroscopic
but in Italy is available as a hexahydrate or some such if I remember
rightly) - you have to get it bound with Calcium in USA (Slo-MAg and
equivalent tablets) Takes 8 hrs to absorb.
A better pure magnesium source is Magnesium gluconate - absorbs in 1
hour and is MOST efficiently used. Pharmacies can supply it if you insist:-)
I'd consider the other non-antacid forms like citrate and ascorbate
to be VERY poor last choices - with only the antacid forms (oxide and
sulfate etc) being worse:-) !!!

However - it does not explain why *you* think ascorbate is special
somehow? Do tell please? (I "collect" magnesium information!)

Er - I changed the subject....

NAmaste,
IRene

--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Simon King LCPH MARH]

Hi Irene, I do not think mag asc is a special form of vit-c , just that as it has mag as a component, it would seem less likely that that component would be depleted. Mag asc is a very commonly available form of asc-ac in the Uk, generally marketed as 'buffered vit-c'

As you high dosage Vit c : my comments are concerned only with long term use. Im sorry but I cannot rmeember the reference where I read that such LONG TERM dosing could lead to the depletion of other nutrients

I personally do not advocate high dosage vit-C at all, I am not convinced that it is as universally as good idea as suggested by its proponents. Just a gut feeling

Simon

[Sheri Nakken]

I'll share some info.
Sodium ascorbate is a more buffered (bicarb added) form of ascorbic acid
especially useful if a person is more acidic. If very acidic, especially
need C but can't absorb it unless buffered.

other ascorbates - mag or calcium asocorbate are not good for long term use

I'll send some info

Sheri
as it has mag as a component, it would seem less likely that that component
would be depleted. Mag asc is a very commonly available form of asc-ac in
the Uk, generally marketed as 'buffered vit-c'
use. Im sorry but I cannot rmeember the reference where I read that such
LONG TERM dosing could lead to the depletion of other nutrients
that it is as universally as good idea as suggested by its proponents. Just
a gut feeling
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[Shannon Nelson]

I have been told the same re vitamin C possibly depleting nutrients,
tho I don't have specific information. I used to have a chiropractor
who got terrific results with muscle testing (an elaborate system, full
of checks-and-balances and refinements), and whenever I needed a vit C,
he would test many different formulas looking for one that did not get
a "this could cause problems" response. Sometimes the issue was
acid/alkaline (on one occasion the only one that "passed" was a combo
of ascorbic acid and a buffered form), and sometimes the issue seemed
to be something else (other times the ones that "passed" had added
herbs and/or minerals).

But... In the years after we moved away from him, I wound up using vit
C "as needed" anyway, because the short-term help seemed to
resoundingly outweigh any (possible) long-term issues. So my jury is
still very much "out" on the topic, and I am interested in the
discussion! I have found, tho, that for myself in the past four years
or so, the things I used to rely on vitamin C for (gums; bruising;
colds; energy) are being achieved very competently by moderate doses of
herbs instead.

But in any case, someone with severe nutritional depletion (e.g. an
alcoholic) should not be getting vitamin C (or any other nutrient) in a
vacuum anyway; they *should* be getting broad-spectrum
mineral-and-other. supplements anyway, which would hopefully balance
out the no-doubt-needed C...
Shannon