Dear Colleagues
I had an interesting case today which I would like to share with you and know your points.
A 30 years old lady. From last week her stool is loose like clay, very dark green and bad smelling. With more investigation I got that she is using Iron supplements (Such kind of the stool is a very common side effect of Iron supplement). When I told the patient that using the iron is the reason of these symptoms, she replied me: "but it is 2-3 years that I am using Iron supplements and only in recent days I am experiencing the side effects."
Now this is my concern: Do you think we have to use the symptoms of stool (Loose, Green and bad smelling) as a part of totality of symptoms for selecting the similimum? if yes, why? If no, why?
All the best
Shaddel
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
An interesting observation
-
shabina shaikh
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 10:00 pm
Re: An interesting observation
dear dr.shaddel
i feel if this symptom is included in the totality it
should have more characteristics to it like wt kind of
bad smell is it ?frequency of the stool?urgency?does
it accompany any other concommitants with it such as
symptoms before ,during &after stools?
only taking the symptom as such will not help us in
the selection of the rt remedy.
regards
shabina
--- "Dr. F. Shaddel" wrote:
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i feel if this symptom is included in the totality it
should have more characteristics to it like wt kind of
bad smell is it ?frequency of the stool?urgency?does
it accompany any other concommitants with it such as
symptoms before ,during &after stools?
only taking the symptom as such will not help us in
the selection of the rt remedy.
regards
shabina
--- "Dr. F. Shaddel" wrote:
__________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new
http://in.answers.yahoo.com/
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: An interesting observation
Dr. Shaddel,
I might or might not include it, depending on other details.
Is this her main complaint, or what else? Are there other changes
accompanying it?
Anything that might have started it?
I might suggest that she first try stopping the iron and see if that
helps--but depending on other details.
If she appears to be having an acute reaction, possibly to something
other than the iron she's taken for 2-3 years already without trouble,
then I would use those characeristics of the stool as part of the
totality.
I am interested to hear your thoughts!
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I might or might not include it, depending on other details.
Is this her main complaint, or what else? Are there other changes
accompanying it?
Anything that might have started it?
I might suggest that she first try stopping the iron and see if that
helps--but depending on other details.
If she appears to be having an acute reaction, possibly to something
other than the iron she's taken for 2-3 years already without trouble,
then I would use those characeristics of the stool as part of the
totality.
I am interested to hear your thoughts!
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Soroush Ebrahimi
- Moderator
- Posts: 4510
- Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2002 11:00 pm
Re: An interesting observation
Dear Dr Shaddel
If you think that these symptoms are caused by the iron tablets, then I would ask the patient to eliminate the tablets (as the possible MAINTAINING CAUSE) and then see what happens.
Rgds
Soroush
If you think that these symptoms are caused by the iron tablets, then I would ask the patient to eliminate the tablets (as the possible MAINTAINING CAUSE) and then see what happens.
Rgds
Soroush
-
Dr. F. Shaddel
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: An interesting observation
Dear Shannon, Soroush, Shebina and all friends
Its great. As you may notice there is contraversy. some Homeopath will take the symptoms (of course with maximum possible characteristics) and somebody prefer to stop the Iron and if they disappeared authomatically, prefer to not considering. Lets receive more opinions and then discuss about a possible fix rule which is applicable to all cases who are using conventional medicines.
Warmly
Shaddel
Robert & Shannon Nelson wrote:
Dr. Shaddel,
I might or might not include it, depending on other details.
Is this her main complaint, or what else? Are there other changes
accompanying it?
Anything that might have started it?
I might suggest that she first try stopping the iron and see if that
helps--but depending on other details.
If she appears to be having an acute reaction, possibly to something
other than the iron she's taken for 2-3 years already without trouble,
then I would use those characeristics of the stool as part of the
totality.
I am interested to hear your thoughts!
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Its great. As you may notice there is contraversy. some Homeopath will take the symptoms (of course with maximum possible characteristics) and somebody prefer to stop the Iron and if they disappeared authomatically, prefer to not considering. Lets receive more opinions and then discuss about a possible fix rule which is applicable to all cases who are using conventional medicines.
Warmly
Shaddel
Robert & Shannon Nelson wrote:
Dr. Shaddel,
I might or might not include it, depending on other details.
Is this her main complaint, or what else? Are there other changes
accompanying it?
Anything that might have started it?
I might suggest that she first try stopping the iron and see if that
helps--but depending on other details.
If she appears to be having an acute reaction, possibly to something
other than the iron she's taken for 2-3 years already without trouble,
then I would use those characeristics of the stool as part of the
totality.
I am interested to hear your thoughts!
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Visit Minutus Website at http://www.minutus.org
ATTENTION PLEASE:
The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
****
ATTENTION PLEASE!!
If you do not wish to receive individual emails, you can simply change your setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to receive a single daily digest.
Yahoo! Groups Links
Associate Professor in Organon and Principles
Secretary General, PHAU
Education Affairs Director CTCH
Administrator to HMA, UK in Middle East
-----------------------------
CTCH Administration Office
Tel: +971-4-3902257
Fax: +971-4-3664619
Email: ctch@bc.kv.ae
Website: www.scientifichom.com
PO Box: 502221, KV, Dubai, UAE
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Nader Moradi
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: An interesting observation
Dear Dr. Shaddel,
IMO,There are two possibilities: 1- symptoms belong to Iron. This means that
your patient is proving IRON, in this situation we must see other sign and
symptoms (side effects) of IRON such as Nausea, giddiness and etc) 2- Due to
progression of pathology IRON has acted as an exciting cause and brought out
the symptoms, in this situation according to Organon although these symptoms
has been produced by the remedy but they belong to the patient and we must
consider them in TOTALITY of the patient.
Kind Regards,
Nader
IMO,There are two possibilities: 1- symptoms belong to Iron. This means that
your patient is proving IRON, in this situation we must see other sign and
symptoms (side effects) of IRON such as Nausea, giddiness and etc) 2- Due to
progression of pathology IRON has acted as an exciting cause and brought out
the symptoms, in this situation according to Organon although these symptoms
has been produced by the remedy but they belong to the patient and we must
consider them in TOTALITY of the patient.
Kind Regards,
Nader
Re: An interesting observation
Is it possible that there could be a cumulative effect from the iron, or that accidentally she took a higher dose than usual? I'd probably try to lower the iron intake for a week or two, give placebo during that time and see what happens. If the symptom persists after that time I would use it in consideration of choice of remedy.
Also, you haven't presented information regarding totality here. If the symptom is one of many it's a different situation than if the symptom is the chief complaint. If there was a clear physical or mental exciting cause at the onset, I would do two repertorizations, one including this symptom and one excluding it, to compare and see what remedies seem prominent in both pictures.
Hope this is of help,
Vera
"Dr. F. Shaddel" wrote:
Dear Colleagues
I had an interesting case today which I would like to share with you and know your points.
A 30 years old lady. From last week her stool is loose like clay, very dark green and bad smelling. With more investigation I got that she is using Iron supplements (Such kind of the stool is a very common side effect of Iron supplement). When I told the patient that using the iron is the reason of these symptoms, she replied me: "but it is 2-3 years that I am using Iron supplements and only in recent days I am experiencing the side effects."
Now this is my concern: Do you think we have to use the symptoms of stool (Loose, Green and bad smelling) as a part of totality of symptoms for selecting the similimum? if yes, why? If no, why?
All the best
Shaddel
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Also, you haven't presented information regarding totality here. If the symptom is one of many it's a different situation than if the symptom is the chief complaint. If there was a clear physical or mental exciting cause at the onset, I would do two repertorizations, one including this symptom and one excluding it, to compare and see what remedies seem prominent in both pictures.
Hope this is of help,
Vera
"Dr. F. Shaddel" wrote:
Dear Colleagues
I had an interesting case today which I would like to share with you and know your points.
A 30 years old lady. From last week her stool is loose like clay, very dark green and bad smelling. With more investigation I got that she is using Iron supplements (Such kind of the stool is a very common side effect of Iron supplement). When I told the patient that using the iron is the reason of these symptoms, she replied me: "but it is 2-3 years that I am using Iron supplements and only in recent days I am experiencing the side effects."
Now this is my concern: Do you think we have to use the symptoms of stool (Loose, Green and bad smelling) as a part of totality of symptoms for selecting the similimum? if yes, why? If no, why?
All the best
Shaddel
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Dr. F. Shaddel
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: An interesting observation
Dear Nader, Dear Friends
Well done. Actually I do not have many things to add to your analysis. Just as a simple classification and summarizing, I believe we should take these symptoms for finding the similimum because there are only two possibilities about these symptoms:
1. The appeared symptoms are not related to using Iron supplements and because of natural disease. In this case all the symptoms should be considered.
2. The appeared symptoms are really the side effect (Prove) of Iron. As my friend; Nader nicely explained by reffering to Organon, these symptoms belong to primary action of medicine but at the same time they shows a new special characteristic (Sensitivity) in the V.F of patient that can be used for finding the symillimum (Accessory Symptoms).
So in both of the conditions, the symptoms should be taken and no need to stop the Iron and wait for what will happen.
Finally we usually know the accessory symptoms as the arisen new symptoms during Homeopathic treatment and because of using Homeopathic remedies but this case nicely shows that accessory symptoms are not limited to above condition and any kind of External Primary Action (morbific Agent) can produce them.
Thanks all for sharing in your experience
Kind Regards
Shaddel
Nader Moradi wrote:
Dear Dr. Shaddel,
IMO,There are two possibilities: 1- symptoms belong to Iron. This means that
your patient is proving IRON, in this situation we must see other sign and
symptoms (side effects) of IRON such as Nausea, giddiness and etc) 2- Due to
progression of pathology IRON has acted as an exciting cause and brought out
the symptoms, in this situation according to Organon although these symptoms
has been produced by the remedy but they belong to the patient and we must
consider them in TOTALITY of the patient.
Kind Regards,
Nader
Well done. Actually I do not have many things to add to your analysis. Just as a simple classification and summarizing, I believe we should take these symptoms for finding the similimum because there are only two possibilities about these symptoms:
1. The appeared symptoms are not related to using Iron supplements and because of natural disease. In this case all the symptoms should be considered.
2. The appeared symptoms are really the side effect (Prove) of Iron. As my friend; Nader nicely explained by reffering to Organon, these symptoms belong to primary action of medicine but at the same time they shows a new special characteristic (Sensitivity) in the V.F of patient that can be used for finding the symillimum (Accessory Symptoms).
So in both of the conditions, the symptoms should be taken and no need to stop the Iron and wait for what will happen.
Finally we usually know the accessory symptoms as the arisen new symptoms during Homeopathic treatment and because of using Homeopathic remedies but this case nicely shows that accessory symptoms are not limited to above condition and any kind of External Primary Action (morbific Agent) can produce them.
Thanks all for sharing in your experience
Kind Regards
Shaddel
Nader Moradi wrote:
Dear Dr. Shaddel,
IMO,There are two possibilities: 1- symptoms belong to Iron. This means that
your patient is proving IRON, in this situation we must see other sign and
symptoms (side effects) of IRON such as Nausea, giddiness and etc) 2- Due to
progression of pathology IRON has acted as an exciting cause and brought out
the symptoms, in this situation according to Organon although these symptoms
has been produced by the remedy but they belong to the patient and we must
consider them in TOTALITY of the patient.
Kind Regards,
Nader