Irene,
I have never taken Tiny to a vet. When I got him the people
who had been feeding him had him fixed. I would bet that
person vaccinated him even tho I told these people I would
not take him if they allowed vaccination. They had a 13 yr
old golden retriever who suffered seizures from vaccinations
and even tho I demonstrated that relationship to them, they
probably let the vet they saw vaccinate this cat.
The Wellness canned food has no meal or by-products or
toxic additives or BPA in the cans. For a canned food it is not
bad and one of the few companies without a load of call backs.
It is not full of fruits and vegs.
He normally is outdoors and forages for much of his food, but
can be a scrounger. My neighbors ignore me and give him
kibble which causes conflict between us. So he eats fresh
killed often. I will on occasion see him minimally chew on certain grasses
when they growing in season. Should probably grow some wheat grass
indoors for him in winter.
I never give him dry food. We disagree on this.
He is eating but minimally. And as noted is going after water
which he never does which is what is most worrying. I do think about
kidney issues.
If I strike it rich, maybe will get a blood panel despite the stress of
going to a vet with him.
t
sick cat
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: sick cat
Hi Tamarque,
(sorry to mess up your name last email - I know better - sorry!)
Those do LESS kidney damage than what they do put in there:
The toxins in Wellness for cats, are the fruit and vegetables.
They say:
"Wellness canned cat foods so your pet can get a variety of tastes and benefits. Full of healthy seafood and land meats, the Wellness Canned Cat Food also provides your cat with the best in nutrient-rich vegetables, fruits, and grains".
and
" This recipe also includes delicious sweet potatoes and carrots as an excellent source of vitamins, minerals and beta-carotene. Fresh, whole cranberries and blueberries are added to help maintain proper urinary tract health."
They are so wrong.
Those help human urinary tract, but they damage feline urinary tract and especially destroy kidney tissue.
Here is how:
If the feline urinary pH rises above about 6.0 (It should be 5.5), then it causes magnesium to precipitate into sharp crystals. Thrse do kidney damage by abrasion and by blocking small vessels forcing raised pressure in the rest of the tubules, and can even cause male blockages of urinary tract if severe enough. In additon the high pH causes the wrong bacteria and there can be a constant low grade infection in the bladder and/or kidneys.
ALL fruits and vegetables are indigestible to cats. Their liver lacks the enzymes to break down the complex molecules found in plants and especially in plant antioxidants which are complex molecules. So instead of being split ito beneficial coomponents (as humans have the heavy duty equipment adn design to do) they remain as great big toxins in cats, doing harm.
(All you need do is look at feline anatomy and check the liver sliver size to understand they have only the most basic enzymes for carnivore use in there. They are totally unable by design, to process plants. They NEED a substrate in the gut for bacteria to ferment - normally from the gut of prey which may have fermenting grains etc - but they do not digest plants themsleves.)
SO the fruit/veg (and any herbs) do harm both as toxins putting pressure on the liver AND as direct kidney damaging substances.
These toxins for cats are as I mentioned, a lot worse than a little BPA, or some meal (chicken meal is just ground dried chicken meat, it is perfectly good protein). Even chicken by-product (beaks and feet and whatever is chicken leeftovers), while it is poor quality protein indeed, is way better than blueberries and such that do direct serious damage and are toxic.
Actually it is one of the worst, if not THE worst, as far as kidney damage is concerned.
It is.
It has potato or sweet potato (which has 3 feline toxins and is kidney damaging via pH)
It has carrots which do not have available carotene for cats and which do harm from pH alkalinity. (Well cooked pumpkin does help the gut bacteria and carotene needs, in small quantities like half teaspoon max a day)
Cranberries have powerful toxins (the ones that are beneficial antioxidants for humans) AND do kidney damage.
Same goes for blueberries.
SO this is a recipe for insidious increasing kidney damage, followed by liver damage and predisposing chronic disease.
I know that is not what you intended when selecting it, but it is a huge problem that manufacturers do not care that cats are NOT small humans.
They have a totally different metabolism and a totally different internal design to handle THEIR needs.
I know you say you do not want dried food, but it is a LOT safer and healthier than the canned goo which always has gum-rotting gums like carrageenan or guar gum etc in there as if it is not tooth glue enough. Or do you clean the kitty's teeth after every meal?
I know that is an option but I confess I have not got the time or inclination.
I prefer to feed a good food with high animal protein, proper animal fat, and a low carb content that does not include pH and kidney damaging herbs, fruit and veg. Dry is an excellent option for that as it keeps the food fresh - another peculiar requirement of small cats. Free-fed dry food of a good quality results in the healthieast cats.
Your cat has outdoor hunting benefits and that will help - but is also exposed to outdoor toxins - which he will seek to overcome what feels toxic from Wellness. Wellness alkaline reslults also wreck the gut health, which is essential to a cat to give them the short chain fatty acids and the vitamins that we woudl get from fruit, and veg and options the cat can not use.
Toxins in food use up a cat's internal antioxidants to detoxify all those bluebereries, cranberries, potato and carrots. It will not have any left to fight off illnesses, especially chronic ones.
A dry food of high quality has no such dangers. It also allows for eating and nibbling all day so as to avoid the breakdown of body protein that also harms kidneys if ac at is without protein between meals, or the protein is not FRESHER than we can use it. Cats can not handle putrfaction of even microscopic amounts - they use their Jacobsen's organ to help them detect it as it does harm to them to eat such food, and this is why often a cat will refuse food that say a dog will wolf down.
It is HARD TO FEED CATs without using dry. You'd need to serve fresh kill meals or insects every 3 hours round the clock. Maybe you can do that - but the canned you use says otherwise.
I can understand that - it woudl need to be YOUR choice of kibble, with high animal protein and low carbs and all good animal fat - no fruit,veg,herbs...............not the run of the mill total junkfood dry at vet clinics and stores.
Cats do thet when their gut health is bad, so as to get some folic acid which they normally get via gut bacteria.
The frui and veg etc will kill the beneficial feline gut organisms. Cats have a very poor metabolism if their gut is in poor health. They are forced to use backup inefficient short chain fatty acids instead of mainly butyric acid as when things are good.
No rather feed his gut a fermentable fiver - one fermentable by FELINE gut bacteria - such as a little well cooked plain pumpkin, or rice bran or beet fiber (those are the top three). Plus extra taurine and a tad bit of PABA.
Then his gut will be healthy and he will not crave folic from grass.
It does not matter whether food is dry or wet - it only matters what is in it and in what ratio, and whetehr the teeth are clean after eating it.
A blood panel can be the least expensive way to help a sick cat.
A mobile vet who comes to your house is a good way to get the stress down, along with a dose of Aconitum napellus 200C beforehand. Vet technique matters. ASK!
If they can distract him suitably they can get the sample with least distress.
Example: Work fast: Put him somewhere he is not normally allowed, eg kitchen counter, run the tap water as another distraction, have a new toy, scruffle him quite hard somewhere to distract the use of a needle nearby and let the vet get it done fast before he knows what is going on - and treat him to a nice game with the new toy as an ending item.
Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
(sorry to mess up your name last email - I know better - sorry!)
Those do LESS kidney damage than what they do put in there:
The toxins in Wellness for cats, are the fruit and vegetables.
They say:
"Wellness canned cat foods so your pet can get a variety of tastes and benefits. Full of healthy seafood and land meats, the Wellness Canned Cat Food also provides your cat with the best in nutrient-rich vegetables, fruits, and grains".
and
" This recipe also includes delicious sweet potatoes and carrots as an excellent source of vitamins, minerals and beta-carotene. Fresh, whole cranberries and blueberries are added to help maintain proper urinary tract health."
They are so wrong.
Those help human urinary tract, but they damage feline urinary tract and especially destroy kidney tissue.
Here is how:
If the feline urinary pH rises above about 6.0 (It should be 5.5), then it causes magnesium to precipitate into sharp crystals. Thrse do kidney damage by abrasion and by blocking small vessels forcing raised pressure in the rest of the tubules, and can even cause male blockages of urinary tract if severe enough. In additon the high pH causes the wrong bacteria and there can be a constant low grade infection in the bladder and/or kidneys.
ALL fruits and vegetables are indigestible to cats. Their liver lacks the enzymes to break down the complex molecules found in plants and especially in plant antioxidants which are complex molecules. So instead of being split ito beneficial coomponents (as humans have the heavy duty equipment adn design to do) they remain as great big toxins in cats, doing harm.
(All you need do is look at feline anatomy and check the liver sliver size to understand they have only the most basic enzymes for carnivore use in there. They are totally unable by design, to process plants. They NEED a substrate in the gut for bacteria to ferment - normally from the gut of prey which may have fermenting grains etc - but they do not digest plants themsleves.)
SO the fruit/veg (and any herbs) do harm both as toxins putting pressure on the liver AND as direct kidney damaging substances.
These toxins for cats are as I mentioned, a lot worse than a little BPA, or some meal (chicken meal is just ground dried chicken meat, it is perfectly good protein). Even chicken by-product (beaks and feet and whatever is chicken leeftovers), while it is poor quality protein indeed, is way better than blueberries and such that do direct serious damage and are toxic.
Actually it is one of the worst, if not THE worst, as far as kidney damage is concerned.
It is.
It has potato or sweet potato (which has 3 feline toxins and is kidney damaging via pH)
It has carrots which do not have available carotene for cats and which do harm from pH alkalinity. (Well cooked pumpkin does help the gut bacteria and carotene needs, in small quantities like half teaspoon max a day)
Cranberries have powerful toxins (the ones that are beneficial antioxidants for humans) AND do kidney damage.
Same goes for blueberries.
SO this is a recipe for insidious increasing kidney damage, followed by liver damage and predisposing chronic disease.
I know that is not what you intended when selecting it, but it is a huge problem that manufacturers do not care that cats are NOT small humans.
They have a totally different metabolism and a totally different internal design to handle THEIR needs.
I know you say you do not want dried food, but it is a LOT safer and healthier than the canned goo which always has gum-rotting gums like carrageenan or guar gum etc in there as if it is not tooth glue enough. Or do you clean the kitty's teeth after every meal?
I know that is an option but I confess I have not got the time or inclination.
I prefer to feed a good food with high animal protein, proper animal fat, and a low carb content that does not include pH and kidney damaging herbs, fruit and veg. Dry is an excellent option for that as it keeps the food fresh - another peculiar requirement of small cats. Free-fed dry food of a good quality results in the healthieast cats.
Your cat has outdoor hunting benefits and that will help - but is also exposed to outdoor toxins - which he will seek to overcome what feels toxic from Wellness. Wellness alkaline reslults also wreck the gut health, which is essential to a cat to give them the short chain fatty acids and the vitamins that we woudl get from fruit, and veg and options the cat can not use.
Toxins in food use up a cat's internal antioxidants to detoxify all those bluebereries, cranberries, potato and carrots. It will not have any left to fight off illnesses, especially chronic ones.
A dry food of high quality has no such dangers. It also allows for eating and nibbling all day so as to avoid the breakdown of body protein that also harms kidneys if ac at is without protein between meals, or the protein is not FRESHER than we can use it. Cats can not handle putrfaction of even microscopic amounts - they use their Jacobsen's organ to help them detect it as it does harm to them to eat such food, and this is why often a cat will refuse food that say a dog will wolf down.
It is HARD TO FEED CATs without using dry. You'd need to serve fresh kill meals or insects every 3 hours round the clock. Maybe you can do that - but the canned you use says otherwise.
I can understand that - it woudl need to be YOUR choice of kibble, with high animal protein and low carbs and all good animal fat - no fruit,veg,herbs...............not the run of the mill total junkfood dry at vet clinics and stores.
Cats do thet when their gut health is bad, so as to get some folic acid which they normally get via gut bacteria.
The frui and veg etc will kill the beneficial feline gut organisms. Cats have a very poor metabolism if their gut is in poor health. They are forced to use backup inefficient short chain fatty acids instead of mainly butyric acid as when things are good.
No rather feed his gut a fermentable fiver - one fermentable by FELINE gut bacteria - such as a little well cooked plain pumpkin, or rice bran or beet fiber (those are the top three). Plus extra taurine and a tad bit of PABA.
Then his gut will be healthy and he will not crave folic from grass.
It does not matter whether food is dry or wet - it only matters what is in it and in what ratio, and whetehr the teeth are clean after eating it.
A blood panel can be the least expensive way to help a sick cat.
A mobile vet who comes to your house is a good way to get the stress down, along with a dose of Aconitum napellus 200C beforehand. Vet technique matters. ASK!
If they can distract him suitably they can get the sample with least distress.
Example: Work fast: Put him somewhere he is not normally allowed, eg kitchen counter, run the tap water as another distraction, have a new toy, scruffle him quite hard somewhere to distract the use of a needle nearby and let the vet get it done fast before he knows what is going on - and treat him to a nice game with the new toy as an ending item.
Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Hennie Duits
- Posts: 494
- Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 10:00 pm
Re: sick cat
All this makes a lot of sense - I've never seen any of my cats eat fruit
or various vegetables, potatoes etc. (who's ever seen a cat dig up
potatoes..)
Many cats love canned food (mine prefer just canned meat over anything
'fancy' with rice, vegetables etc.), and after having the canned food,
they finish their meal by chewing away some dry food (never the other
way round). The usual sequence is canned-dry-canned-dry etc., finished
by a drink (some like fresh tap water in a bowl, some prefer tap water
running from the tap, and some prefer rain water in some container or
minor shallow pools outdoors - their preferences are not mine
.
Some like sardines or tuna in olive oil (small bites mostly), some
don't. Some like milk, whipped cream, a bite of cheese, herring in
tomato sauce, others will sit and look in amazement at their fellow
species eating such horrible stuff. I've never seem any of my cats eat
'Frankfurters' etc. I've never tried pumpkin, but maybe it resembles
tomato sauce as for carotenes (because some cats really love it)? I've
never served them ketchup.
Hennie
Irene de Villiers schreef op 22-1-2014 11:06:
or various vegetables, potatoes etc. (who's ever seen a cat dig up
potatoes..)
Many cats love canned food (mine prefer just canned meat over anything
'fancy' with rice, vegetables etc.), and after having the canned food,
they finish their meal by chewing away some dry food (never the other
way round). The usual sequence is canned-dry-canned-dry etc., finished
by a drink (some like fresh tap water in a bowl, some prefer tap water
running from the tap, and some prefer rain water in some container or
minor shallow pools outdoors - their preferences are not mine
.Some like sardines or tuna in olive oil (small bites mostly), some
don't. Some like milk, whipped cream, a bite of cheese, herring in
tomato sauce, others will sit and look in amazement at their fellow
species eating such horrible stuff. I've never seem any of my cats eat
'Frankfurters' etc. I've never tried pumpkin, but maybe it resembles
tomato sauce as for carotenes (because some cats really love it)? I've
never served them ketchup
.Hennie
Irene de Villiers schreef op 22-1-2014 11:06:
-
Hennie Duits
- Posts: 494
- Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 10:00 pm
Re: sick cat
And - if they (cats) think you've got something to serve that they
really like (maybe read -need), determined cats will make it very clear
to you you need to serve just this special food (and they may be right
to do so, but some may be spoiled..)
Irene de Villiers schreef op 22-1-2014 11:06:
really like (maybe read -need), determined cats will make it very clear
to you you need to serve just this special food (and they may be right
to do so, but some may be spoiled..)
Irene de Villiers schreef op 22-1-2014 11:06:
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: sick cat
Or both:-)
I used to call out "supper time" and two of my cats looked up to hear the next word...
if it was ostrich, Purry came running and Minerva grumped,
but if it was fish, Purry turned her back carefully, slowly so I did not get offended, and Minerva came running.
If I ever brought salmon home, Sindri would detect it no matter how well wrapped it was, and start asking for some.
They have favorites just as we do:-)
Cats need about ten or twelve times the amount of carotene that dogs need. Most cat foods are devoid of it.
So a little well cooked pumpkin or yellow squash can fulfil this need when they have no live prey with carotene in the gut contents.
I did a survey of what cats ate, who lived over 20 years. It was part of a bigger survey. This was in South Africa in 1996. Ten thousand people answered my survey on what cats in their lifetime ate, what illnesses they had, and what they died of (survey in PawPrint, a cat publication I developed to report research and help cats live longer healthier lives) - and for the ones living over 20 yrs, the common denominator was a proper carnivore diet with gem squash or pumpkin in small amounts. That was before the research on how much carotene cats need and where they can get it most easily if they live indoors only.
Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
I used to call out "supper time" and two of my cats looked up to hear the next word...
if it was ostrich, Purry came running and Minerva grumped,
but if it was fish, Purry turned her back carefully, slowly so I did not get offended, and Minerva came running.
If I ever brought salmon home, Sindri would detect it no matter how well wrapped it was, and start asking for some.
They have favorites just as we do:-)
Cats need about ten or twelve times the amount of carotene that dogs need. Most cat foods are devoid of it.
So a little well cooked pumpkin or yellow squash can fulfil this need when they have no live prey with carotene in the gut contents.
I did a survey of what cats ate, who lived over 20 years. It was part of a bigger survey. This was in South Africa in 1996. Ten thousand people answered my survey on what cats in their lifetime ate, what illnesses they had, and what they died of (survey in PawPrint, a cat publication I developed to report research and help cats live longer healthier lives) - and for the ones living over 20 yrs, the common denominator was a proper carnivore diet with gem squash or pumpkin in small amounts. That was before the research on how much carotene cats need and where they can get it most easily if they live indoors only.
Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
Re: sick cat
that's funny! i didn't know they needed carotene. i just know my Pepper used to jump up on the counter to get papaya whenever i had it around. 
From: Irene de Villiers
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Minutus] sick cat
Or both:-)
I used to call out "supper time" and two of my cats looked up to hear the next word...
if it was ostrich, Purry came running and Minerva grumped,
but if it was fish, Purry turned her back carefully, slowly so I did not get offended, and Minerva came running.
If I ever brought salmon home, Sindri would detect it no matter how well wrapped it was, and start asking for some.
They have favorites just as we do:-)
Cats need about ten or twelve times the amount of carotene that dogs need. Most cat foods are devoid of it.
So a little well cooked pumpkin or yellow squash can fulfil this need when they have no live prey with carotene in the gut contents.
I did a survey of what cats ate, who lived over 20 years. It was part of a bigger survey. This was in South Africa in 1996. Ten thousand people answered my survey on what cats in their lifetime ate, what illnesses they had, and what they died of (survey in PawPrint, a cat publication I developed to report research and help cats live longer healthier lives) - and for the ones living over 20 yrs, the common denominator was a proper carnivore diet with gem squash or pumpkin in small amounts. That was before the research on how much carotene cats need and where they can get it most easily if they live indoors only.
Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
From: Irene de Villiers
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Minutus] sick cat
Or both:-)
I used to call out "supper time" and two of my cats looked up to hear the next word...
if it was ostrich, Purry came running and Minerva grumped,
but if it was fish, Purry turned her back carefully, slowly so I did not get offended, and Minerva came running.
If I ever brought salmon home, Sindri would detect it no matter how well wrapped it was, and start asking for some.
They have favorites just as we do:-)
Cats need about ten or twelve times the amount of carotene that dogs need. Most cat foods are devoid of it.
So a little well cooked pumpkin or yellow squash can fulfil this need when they have no live prey with carotene in the gut contents.
I did a survey of what cats ate, who lived over 20 years. It was part of a bigger survey. This was in South Africa in 1996. Ten thousand people answered my survey on what cats in their lifetime ate, what illnesses they had, and what they died of (survey in PawPrint, a cat publication I developed to report research and help cats live longer healthier lives) - and for the ones living over 20 yrs, the common denominator was a proper carnivore diet with gem squash or pumpkin in small amounts. That was before the research on how much carotene cats need and where they can get it most easily if they live indoors only.
Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: sick cat
smart kitty
I know another one who jumped on counters for cantaloupe.
He's getting a little pumpkin now and does not dive for cantaloupe any more.
.....He started getting thin and ill at age 16, kideny failure diagnosed (vets call it kidney failure; I consider it kidney disease as the kidney is still working to some extent) - got him onto better diet and a remedy, and he is a pushy haughty 18 year old "king" of the palace type now:-) No longer skinny, he's well muscled and looks good.
....Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
I know another one who jumped on counters for cantaloupe.
He's getting a little pumpkin now and does not dive for cantaloupe any more.
.....He started getting thin and ill at age 16, kideny failure diagnosed (vets call it kidney failure; I consider it kidney disease as the kidney is still working to some extent) - got him onto better diet and a remedy, and he is a pushy haughty 18 year old "king" of the palace type now:-) No longer skinny, he's well muscled and looks good.
....Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: sick cat
Yes perfect, as long as it is plain and not spiced for pies.
...Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
...Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."