bar-c / agaricus (was wandering eye)

[Joy Lucas]

This happens so much. I have had irate family members, who have had
their loved ones returned to them in perfect working order through
homeopathy, but because they can't 'handle' the blossoming person
become really furious and thus anti homeopathy. I've even had cases
where the allopathic drugs have virtually been forced to be retaken
Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
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[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Joy and Hahnemannian,
I suppose the people (parents or whatever) who must have the most
trouble with this (kids who were easier to manage when they were
sick!), are those who are not accustomed to really *relating* to the
person; who are accustomed to talking "at" them rather than "to" them?
parents (or etc.,), something like--Look at him! Yes he's sassy and
inconvenient, but he's happy and healthy! Why not celebrate that with
him? Tell him you can *see* how much happier he's become, and that you
are happy for him! Then explain that (and his part could be harder,
and more variable from case to case, but something like...) it's a
problem when one member of the family doesn't follow the rules set out
for all (bad example for younger siblings, and it's you they look up
to? Or mom stays awake and night worrying until she knows you're
safely home? Or...), and does he have any thoughts about a good way to
handle this?
now, and you need and deserve more privileges (then look for a mutually
acceptable touchpoint...).

I think that one issue is there are stages of development where it's
*normal*, and healthy, and necessary, for a person to begin breaking
bonds and striking out on their own; and maybe that's a difficult time
at best. But also (from observation in my own family) if a child has
been sick and *needed* coddling, and never presented any behavior
problems, during the stages of life when normally those boundaries
would be formed, then it *can* be more awkward to do, at a later
time--establishing "lines of authority" for the first time with a
teenager, well (shudder)... And yet I would think (hope!) that, if the
family is healthy, if the lines of communication are open, and if the
(newly rebellious) child *is* healthy (living in the present, not in
some internal drama), then it should be possible to work it out. I
realize those are a lot of big "ifs"...

Some parents *aren't* accustomed to actually communicating with their
kids, and have no sense that it's desirable (mention that their kids
*need* to learn to establish their own boundaries, and how to work
acceptably within society's boundaries, and these are *learned
skills*!). This might be a time when some non-homeopathic, focussed
family counselling (either by the h'th or thru a referral) may be very
necessary.

Certainly there will be some parents that simply won't accept it--they
need to be "in charge" and won't consider anything else. But for
others, they might just need help in considering, appreciating and
implementing another way of approaching the matter.

Any thoughts about that?
Shannon

[Joy Lucas]

Dear Shannon, the cases I have in mind are where the children (grown
up) are 'controlling' their parents!

And although you can attempt to negotiate you can imagine how
pursuasive adults can be, even when they have amazing cures in front of
their very eyes.

The worst I can remember was that of an elderly woman who, it turned
out, had suppressed her Hay Fever many years previously, then developed
asthma and for years had that suppressed as well with heavy duty drugs
to the point that she had tumours on her vocal chords and serious
rheumatics had set in and she was frequently wheel chair bound. I
nearly didn't take the case thinking it was incurable but amazingly
hers was a clear cut Arsenicum case and within a couple of months the
asthma had cleared up, she was driving a car, playing with
grandchildren and her Hay fever returned which was also treated
successfully.

Daughter put the fear into her regarding Arsenicum, was furious about
the hay fever and refused to let her mother return for any more follow
ups (not that she needed them) and I have no idea what happened except
to say i received a letter from the mother saying she had been
pursuaded to retake her asthma pills in case it came back.

I have mixed feelings about to what extent I should intervene when
things like happen especially when the client was to all degrees healed
but the 'power' of the daughter was still overwhelming enough to
over-ride that. Oh well. Best wishes, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
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[Rosemary C Hyde]

What a sad story! (Encouraging, of course, that the Ars helped so much...) It's true that sometimes adult children say and do amazing things to control their parents. Cancer patients get this sort of thing from all sides, people telling them to get "real" treatment, even when it will harm severely and help not at all. Oh, well...

Rosemary

[Caro]

"Chris.
Must be a real pain to read any rep. (I mean, repertory)!
Caro
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[muthu kumar]

I used to do all that when the parents come - in this case the
parents did not come. The boy ( upper teens as I said) came on his
own.

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Robert & Shannon Nelson
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[VR VR]

Would you use a non-pathological personality trait (e.g. generally cheerful) as a confirming symptom? If I have a patient who is reserved, but not pathologically so, that's just how this patient is, it doesn't disturb function in any way. In this situation, does the rubric have any relevance?
Vera

hahnemannian2002 wrote:
I am one of "the old guys" probably-

For me the guiding symptoms are the ones that are pathological-
pathological in the sense deviations from a previous state of health
in acutes... but even "friendly" or "cheerful" is pathological
sometimes there-
once again when viewed from the perspective of change from a
previous state...When you compare it with provings - in pathogenetic
provings the prover will be noting down everything that is
remarkable after taking the proving medicine ( as long as it is not
considered curative reaction ) ...- so a change from a previous
morose state to being cheerful if caused by medicine is still
guiding - as when an acute causes the patient to become cheerful .In
fact even in Organon Hahnemann explains a case where after the
simillimum and the cure- the patient became more irritable than his
previous self...

In Chronic diseases - the comparison is not with a previous state of
health usually, but leanings and attitudes that are different from
other people in a similar situation or from the species in general-
allergy to milk for example - if others can tolerate the same
without any problem then intolerance to it is an abnormality- even
here if a person is cheerful on the death of a close one ( without
having even a normal grief reaction - then it is abnormal... esp. if
there is no clear reason for it)... this is what Kent would call a
symptom of Will - where you find emotions without any reason to
explain it... whereas if there is a reason to it - for example the
person belongs to a religious group which believes in all dead
people reaching God and if this person believes in it very much -
then that could explain it and the symptom though important is not
so prominent any more- this is what Rajan Sankaran pursues by asking
the Why question...Personal Construct Psychologists use the
technique of Laddering ( Why questions) for pursuing this to find
the fundamental construct / schema that is causing this...

But as long as a person's emotional reactions are appropriate and
in touch with reality they cannot be guiding symptoms ( If they are
appropriate then they cannot be "delusions" leave alone "core
delusions" ...)

Once had a case of epilepsy of some years where loss of sleep
brought on fits... the boy in upper teens was a calm, quiet and
obedient person till a couple of doses of Lachesis put an end to his
fits... after that the boy became such a nuisance to the family- he
did not follow family rules, always returned home late, went for
late night shows with his friends ( all of this though normal are
not "good habits" by family's definitions) and the parents were very
dissatisfied with me... for curing him- what is normal or abnormal
here?

(snip)
---------------------------------
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[VR VR]

thanks for this - very useful.
Vera

Chris Gillen wrote:

[Caro]

That was beautiful, Chris.
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[Shannon Nelson]

Ah, that is sad! Why was the daughter angry--did she just not
understand that her mother was better (and the hay fever could also be
treated), or are you saying she wanted her mother to be ill?
Shannon