Robin, David and Prince John

[muthu kumar]

Robin

The people who follow Hahnemann do not religiously follow so because
he was the founder or because his words are akin to the commandments.
We do so because there has been no clearer writing than his since.
Considering that that man was so scientifically rigorous and gave us
a method which still holds good when we practice and comparing it
with our scientific era where provings done in dreams and in
conference halls are considered to be guiding I would rather listen
to him than the drivel we get sometimes. I admit that there may be
other improvements but still his materia medica is as good as it gets
and what else do we have in homeopathy if not a specialized materia
medica? The rest of the stuff is there to support this radical way of
creating a materia medica. Remember – like cures like was known
before Hahnemann but not how to create a materia medica by proving.
If it had not been for Hahnemann that is one truth that would never
have been found out.

I have written before in this forum, how finding the remedy is much
more important than finding the potency. I still think that is so. I
have only used C potencies and decimals in my practice which had
worked for me. And I think LM is another such potency.

At the same time aggravations are not caused because the practitioner
is afraid of aggravations or because the patients are. Are we saying
we are doing faith cure?
They just happen at times. I have seen this in my patients and I
would not say always related to dosage. Most of the time aggravations
were followed by remarkable periods of good health. I would say
there are factors that we do not clearly understand or let us say
sometimes there are interactions amongst these factors that we have
not properly considered. For me aggravations should be avoided if
possible and if adjusting the dose is going to do that – good for it-
but at the same time there is nothing inherently threatening about
aggravations, And in true homeopathic aggravations patient feels
better in general or the condition has improved in some way so that
the patient though complaining still admits that there is some
improvement in other areas.

Having said this even I do experiment in different ways. The reason
why different methodologies work in Homeopathy is because – we are
only assisting Vital Force. We are NOT curing by ourselves. And
vital force can improve even if we help 70% or 80% or 90% and not
100% all the time. Once I think it was Rajan Sankaran who said that
he advised a patient who phoned him to take Ignatia and the patient
became alright – but had taken Echinacea having misheard Rajan.
Similimum in right potency gives the shortest route to cure – does
not mean other similars would not work at all – they are just not the
shortest routes.

Consider the homeopathic remedy as a key to open a problem lock. A
lock can be opened not necessarily by only one key. There are many
keys for a lock and sometimes even a hair pin would do…In allopathy
they blast away the lock and sometimes the door as well

[robin9168]

The main reasons for aggravation are innappropriate potency,
rebound effect in a suppressed case, oversensitivity of patient
and 'too deep a layer' being treated. It is avoidable in many
cases, unavoidable in some, manageable in most and
uncontrollable in a few. I also believe that the
mind/energy/intention of the homeopath effects patient response
to treatment. Thats all. It took me over 10 years of being a
homeopath to start accepting that as a possibility. I far prefer
believing in some objective truth but......

We all follow Hahnemann. We cant call ourselves homeopaths if
we dont. Its just that some treat the Organon like some Holy
book and take each word literally, e.g. why did he say its our
Mission and not our aim or intention etc etc and make a whole
story out of that.. Can you imagine what Edition 200 would have
in it?

I always encourage homeopaths to loosen up and above all look
at what others are doing - not necessarily follow them but by
seeing that people get results by using contrary approaches can
help one to realise that we need to open our minds and not get
stuck in a rut of believing we have THE way. Its hard but its worth
it. One of my best friends, an intelligent and excellent
homeopath believes the best way of clearing deeply entrenched
habit patterns is to give high potencies 200, 1M, 10M daily for
weeks at a time . I balk at such an approach but cant ignore that
he and his patients are happy with what he is doing.

[Simon King LCPH MARH]

Likewise I know those that give 10mm daily
Simon
If you want to do what you love it will be easy - Courtney Pine

[David Little]

At 09:48 AM 6/19/2005, you wrote:

Dear Robin,

Well, this more or less agrees with what I have been saying except you
did not include the "size of the dose". Mind, energy and intention
certainly has an affect as I heal some persons with this alone. That is
part of Mesmerism, which was practiced by Samuel Hahnemann. In my
experience, however, these factors are not the dominant feature in remedy
actions.
Perhaps, you consider me an Organon thumping homeo-preacher of some
sort???? All this "holy book" talk can also be a way of ignoring certain
facts. My reasons for stressing the Organon is that it forms a very strong
foundation on which to build one's homeopathic practice. On this solid
basis one can then bring their practice up to date in a safe and reliable
manner. I don't take the Founder's words on blind faith. I test his
postulates carefully in clinical trials and by observing Nature closely..
So far I have found the methods he developed in the 1830s and 1840s more
effective then his methods of the 1810s and 1820s.

Speaking of modernizing and the edition 200 - Using the dry dose of the
6c and 12c is more similar to the old 2nd and 3rd edition from the early
1810s and 1820s than the newer 4th, 5th and 6th editions of the Organon!
Sounds a bit like flying an old biplane when much newer vehicles are
available! This is meant as a joke but it does have some reality behind it!
Think about it. You said in your other post that you started to use the 6c
and 12c to avoid aggravations, etc. Are you moving forward or backward in
an effort to avoid these complications?

Sincerely, David Little

---------------
"It is the life-force which cures diseases because a dead man needs no more
medicines."

Samuel Hahnemann

Visit our website on Hahnemannian Homoeopathy and Cyberspace Homoeopathic
Academy at
http://www.simillimum.com
David Little © 2000

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Robin,
For the sake of clarifying discussion, would you like to put out some
specific examples? There some are ways that this effect of the
practitioner is obvious--e.g. one is more apt to continue treatment
thru difficult times (or lack of movement) if one has some confidence
in the practitioner; if one feels sufficient rapport; if one feels well
enough supported; if one does not feel judged, put down, etc.... But I
gather you are talking about something more subtle. Give examples?

Shannon

[VR VR]

This is a really interesting discussion for me, and very relevant to the experiences I've had over the last two years of practice (one year supervised). However, it bothers me that I don't understand the subject line! I've looked and looked - please explain to the ignorant - why Prince John? Or is this back to the cheap book salesman of Croydon or Cricklewood or wherever?
With regard to the aggravations I've experienced some as a patient and as a practitioner, and have found that using the 6th Organon methods there are hardly any aggravations, and if they come they are mild, transient and manageable. I work a lot with low potencies (6,9,12 C) in chronic, given in medical solution, and find that often I can get much of the work done without going higher. I don't know if the aggravations I experienced were connected to a fear of aggravation. I'm very aware of the injunction to "do no harm", as a practitioner, and of the risk of misunderstanding the severity of an aggravation and the direction of cure. But I think a certain amount of something equivalent to "fear" is very valuable to a practitioner, almost like stage fright is important to an actor. With regard to Joy's comment, I think a beginning practitioner who has that quality may do less harm than a beginner who is overly sure of him/herself.
There is a Jewish tradition that states that the physician should approach a sick person with awe, as the holy spirit (shekhina) hovers above the patient's bed. It seems that when this "fear" or "awe" quality gets lost, practitioners approach patients in a way that is blase, and may not even notice an aggravation if it hit them on the head... Someone wrote in this discussion that when you are aware of something, you notice it much more, and I think this is true of awareness of aggravations.
Vera Resnick

hahnemannian2002 wrote:
Robin

The people who follow Hahnemann do not religiously follow so because
he was the founder or because his words are akin to the commandments.
We do so because there has been no clearer writing than his since.
Considering that that man was so scientifically rigorous and gave us
a method which still holds good when we practice and comparing it
with our scientific era where provings done in dreams and in
conference halls are considered to be guiding I would rather listen
to him than the drivel we get sometimes. I admit that there may be
other improvements but still his materia medica is as good as it gets
and what else do we have in homeopathy if not a specialized materia
medica? The rest of the stuff is there to support this radical way of
creating a materia medica. Remember – like cures like was known
before Hahnemann but not how to create a materia medica by proving.
If it had not been for Hahnemann that is one truth that would never
have been found out.

I have written before in this forum, how finding the remedy is much
more important than finding the potency. I still think that is so. I
have only used C potencies and decimals in my practice which had
worked for me. And I think LM is another such potency.

At the same time aggravations are not caused because the practitioner
is afraid of aggravations or because the patients are. Are we saying
we are doing faith cure?
They just happen at times. I have seen this in my patients and I
would not say always related to dosage. Most of the time aggravations
were followed by remarkable periods of good health. I would say
there are factors that we do not clearly understand or let us say
sometimes there are interactions amongst these factors that we have
not properly considered. For me aggravations should be avoided if
possible and if adjusting the dose is going to do that – good for it-
but at the same time there is nothing inherently threatening about
aggravations, And in true homeopathic aggravations patient feels
better in general or the condition has improved in some way so that
the patient though complaining still admits that there is some
improvement in other areas.

Having said this even I do experiment in different ways. The reason
why different methodologies work in Homeopathy is because – we are
only assisting Vital Force. We are NOT curing by ourselves. And
vital force can improve even if we help 70% or 80% or 90% and not
100% all the time. Once I think it was Rajan Sankaran who said that
he advised a patient who phoned him to take Ignatia and the patient
became alright – but had taken Echinacea having misheard Rajan.
Similimum in right potency gives the shortest route to cure – does
not mean other similars would not work at all – they are just not the
shortest routes.

Consider the homeopathic remedy as a key to open a problem lock. A
lock can be opened not necessarily by only one key. There are many
keys for a lock and sometimes even a hair pin would do…In allopathy
they blast away the lock and sometimes the door as well
ATTENTION PLEASE:

The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.

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[muthu kumar]

Vera-
I was the one who added the Prince John business
Hope that Robin does not mind- recently I viewed Disney's Robinhood
movie and was laughing at Prince John character... So decided to add
him to the mixture... You can say I am Prince John...You know how I
was the hell boy last year..

I have seen homeopathic aggravations when I sent prescriptions by
mail or just sent the prescription which the patient filled in their
local homeo store. How do we account for these? Homeopathic
aggravations ARE homeopathic aggravations - not physician's jitters
spreading to the patient...

If intra-clinic interaction ( that is good isn't it?) is the reason
for aggravation this is not then just in homeopathy. I have never -
NEVER - ever found Homeopathic prescribing a reason for anxiety.
Considering that I used to presribe antibiotics etc. this is a no-
brainer. Why should I be more afraid of prescribing homeo medicines
when I have given antibiotics with impunity?

I used to be concerned while prescribing antibiotics and other strong
prescriptions ( like Buprenorphine etc, for pain) and found even this
concern and anxiety never aggravated my patients. Over all I think it
is better to improve our case taking, prescribing and potency
selection than to worry about how our fear of aggravations( which
fear itself is not needed and I do not subscribe to the fact that a
concerned newbie is better than a care-free one)is going to cause
aggravation.

This is a profession and we are professionals. If someone is worried
about skills and competence they have no business prescribing. And
it also means that that person has not understood homeopathic
aggravation.

Sorry to say that I do not buy this holy spirit hovering over the
patient etc. If the holy spirit wanted to be useful then it should
have taken care of the patient for me. I believe that the correct
homeopathic medicine should work irrespective of whether the
clinician is concerned, shaking all over or stands gaping at holy
spirits.

We do not have to complicate the system any more than what it is
actually. And remember that this whole thing started with potencies-
and what more do you expect than this confusion when we talk about
the potency problem. People smarter than us have slipped up in this
slimy subject....

What more can we say except that one person's meat is another's
poison and another's medicine... Individualize even in potencies and
never get married to your potency ideas... very difficult to divorce
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, VR VR wrote:
to the experiences I've had over the last two years of practice (one
year supervised). However, it bothers me that I don't understand the
subject line! I've looked and looked - please explain to the
ignorant - why Prince John? Or is this back to the cheap book
salesman of Croydon or Cricklewood or wherever?
and as a practitioner, and have found that using the 6th Organon
methods there are hardly any aggravations, and if they come they are
mild, transient and manageable. I work a lot with low potencies
(6,9,12 C) in chronic, given in medical solution, and find that often
I can get much of the work done without going higher. I don't know
if the aggravations I experienced were connected to a fear of
aggravation. I'm very aware of the injunction to "do no harm", as a
practitioner, and of the risk of misunderstanding the severity of an
aggravation and the direction of cure. But I think a certain amount
of something equivalent to "fear" is very valuable to a practitioner,
almost like stage fright is important to an actor. With regard to
Joy's comment, I think a beginning practitioner who has that quality
may do less harm than a beginner who is overly sure of him/herself.
approach a sick person with awe, as the holy spirit (shekhina) hovers
above the patient's bed. It seems that when this "fear" or "awe"
quality gets lost, practitioners approach patients in a way that is
blase, and may not even notice an aggravation if it hit them on the
head... Someone wrote in this discussion that when you are aware of
something, you notice it much more, and I think this is true of
awareness of aggravations.
because
commandments.
us
gets
of
never
I
practitioner
saying
aggravations
it-
patient
the
Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no
representations regarding the individual suitability of the
information contained in any document read or advice or
recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email
postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use
remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its
individual members be liable for any direct, consequential,
incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and
howsoever caused.
change your setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to
receive a single daily digest.
Service.

[maly suissa]

Sorry for the delay [have been away some time], but I cannot resist this one: Isn't it more exactly 9mm? [OK, you rounded it up only to match this horrifying 10M daily!!!]


Simon King wrote:
Likewise I know those that give 10mm daily
Simon

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[VR VR]

Well, it's to be expected that the Hellboy would take issue with holy spirits...! But I'm glad the Prince John thing is cleared up, you can always segue from this to Robin and Batman...
I can't accept what you say about someone concerned about skills and competence having no business prescribing, at least certainly not at the beginning. It depends on how they react to their concern, whether it pushes them to work more, study more and improve skills, or they land up dithering themselves into oblivion. Which is a good place to meet a holy spirit or two.
Regarding potencies, I think the approach has to be different for people starting out and for people who've been practicing for many years. You have to start somewhere, from some basic treatment approach regarding potencies - that gives a basis from which a beginning prescriber can move, until increasing experience brings more input. But I agree that it shouldn't automatically imply long term commitment.
Regards,
Vera

hahnemannian2002 wrote:
Vera-
I was the one who added the Prince John business
Hope that Robin does not mind- recently I viewed Disney's Robinhood
movie and was laughing at Prince John character... So decided to add
him to the mixture... You can say I am Prince John...You know how I
was the hell boy last year..

I have seen homeopathic aggravations when I sent prescriptions by
mail or just sent the prescription which the patient filled in their
local homeo store. How do we account for these? Homeopathic
aggravations ARE homeopathic aggravations - not physician's jitters
spreading to the patient...

If intra-clinic interaction ( that is good isn't it?) is the reason
for aggravation this is not then just in homeopathy. I have never -
NEVER - ever found Homeopathic prescribing a reason for anxiety.
Considering that I used to presribe antibiotics etc. this is a no-
brainer. Why should I be more afraid of prescribing homeo medicines
when I have given antibiotics with impunity?

I used to be concerned while prescribing antibiotics and other strong
prescriptions ( like Buprenorphine etc, for pain) and found even this
concern and anxiety never aggravated my patients. Over all I think it
is better to improve our case taking, prescribing and potency
selection than to worry about how our fear of aggravations( which
fear itself is not needed and I do not subscribe to the fact that a
concerned newbie is better than a care-free one)is going to cause
aggravation.

This is a profession and we are professionals. If someone is worried
about skills and competence they have no business prescribing. And
it also means that that person has not understood homeopathic
aggravation.

Sorry to say that I do not buy this holy spirit hovering over the
patient etc. If the holy spirit wanted to be useful then it should
have taken care of the patient for me. I believe that the correct
homeopathic medicine should work irrespective of whether the
clinician is concerned, shaking all over or stands gaping at holy
spirits.

We do not have to complicate the system any more than what it is
actually. And remember that this whole thing started with potencies-
and what more do you expect than this confusion when we talk about
the potency problem. People smarter than us have slipped up in this
slimy subject....

What more can we say except that one person's meat is another's
poison and another's medicine... Individualize even in potencies and
never get married to your potency ideas... very difficult to divorce
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, VR VR wrote:
to the experiences I've had over the last two years of practice (one
year supervised). However, it bothers me that I don't understand the
subject line! I've looked and looked - please explain to the
ignorant - why Prince John? Or is this back to the cheap book
salesman of Croydon or Cricklewood or wherever?
and as a practitioner, and have found that using the 6th Organon
methods there are hardly any aggravations, and if they come they are
mild, transient and manageable. I work a lot with low potencies
(6,9,12 C) in chronic, given in medical solution, and find that often
I can get much of the work done without going higher. I don't know
if the aggravations I experienced were connected to a fear of
aggravation. I'm very aware of the injunction to "do no harm", as a
practitioner, and of the risk of misunderstanding the severity of an
aggravation and the direction of cure. But I think a certain amount
of something equivalent to "fear" is very valuable to a practitioner,
almost like stage fright is important to an actor. With regard to
Joy's comment, I think a beginning practitioner who has that quality
may do less harm than a beginner who is overly sure of him/herself.
approach a sick person with awe, as the holy spirit (shekhina) hovers
above the patient's bed. It seems that when this "fear" or "awe"
quality gets lost, practitioners approach patients in a way that is
blase, and may not even notice an aggravation if it hit them on the
head... Someone wrote in this discussion that when you are aware of
something, you notice it much more, and I think this is true of
awareness of aggravations.
because
commandments.
us
gets
of
never
I
practitioner
saying
aggravations
it-
patient
the
Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no
representations regarding the individual suitability of the
information contained in any document read or advice or
recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email
postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use
remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its
individual members be liable for any direct, consequential,
incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and
howsoever caused.
change your setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to
receive a single daily digest.
Service.
ATTENTION PLEASE:

The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.

****
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