electroconvulsive therapy

[Chua Ching Yee]

Hello list

Would like to have your opinion on the benefits and side-effects of ect.
Also, how will it affect the susceptibility of the patient?

Thanks.
Ching Yee

[Liz Hennel]

Benefits - unproven - when subjected to so-called double blind trials, no-one knows why it "works". Perhaps it is because it colludes with the depressed patients' delusion of being unworthy - or of their desire to be punished - again as part of their illness.
Side effects include intellectual damage - it is rarely used for people of academic backgrounds - and it certainly affects memory. Some patients have reported strange bodily sensations some time after the last "treatment" - usually dismissed as delusional - but as no-one I know is capable of truly experiencing another's' body this may be a gross injustice.
ECT is not popular in the UK thank goodness. I would have concerns for a patient with a history of ECT, as I think it may affect their ability to respond to homeopathic remedies - their energetic fields have been scrambled by this violent treatment and we have no way of knowing what that means for the Vital Force. Of course it is also about individual susceptibility and the strength of the Vital Force in the first instance.
You will have gathered I am not a fan of ECT. I should also say I trained in psychiatry some 30 years ago in the UK. I have seen one or two patients who benefited from it - but still question this treatments' place. I also have a history of depressive illness - I would not want this treatment. Indeed, my episodic depressions have been managed for the last 20 years solely by homeopathy, and have always responded more quickly and gently to this modality - with much longer gaps in between episodes - several years rather than months.
Chua Ching Yee wrote:
Hello list

Would like to have your opinion on the benefits and side-effects of ect.
Also, how will it affect the susceptibility of the patient?

Thanks.
Ching Yee
ATTENTION PLEASE:

The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.

****
ATTENTION PLEASE!!

If you do not wish to receive individual emails, send a message with the subject of 'Digest' to ashahrdar@yahoo.com to receive a single daily digest.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/minutus/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
minutus-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Chua Ching Yee]

Dear Liz Hennel

Thank you for your reply. Your views coincide with what another homeopath
has told me, though I understand that many patients have benefited from this
treatment. Hahnemann in §286 said that it does "great damage to patients"
but did not elaborate. However, the way ect is administered today must be
more sophisticated than in his time. I guess it still boils down to
individual susceptibility.

Ching Yee
on 26/5/05 4:00 pm, Liz Hennel at liz_hennel@yahoo.com wrote:

Benefits - unproven - when subjected to so-called double blind trials,
no-one knows why it "works". Perhaps it is because it colludes with the
depressed patients' delusion of being unworthy - or of their desire to be
punished - again as part of their illness.
Side effects include intellectual damage - it is rarely used for people of
academic backgrounds - and it certainly affects memory. Some patients have
reported strange bodily sensations some time after the last "treatment" -
usually dismissed as delusional - but as no-one I know is capable of truly
experiencing another's' body this may be a gross injustice.
ECT is not popular in the UK thank goodness. I would have concerns for a
patient with a history of ECT, as I think it may affect their ability to
respond to homeopathic remedies - their energetic fields have been scrambled
by this violent treatment and we have no way of knowing what that means for
the Vital Force. Of course it is also about individual susceptibility and
the strength of the Vital Force in the first instance.
You will have gathered I am not a fan of ECT. I should also say I trained in
psychiatry some 30 years ago in the UK. I have seen one or two patients who
benefited from it - but still question this treatments' place. I also have
a history of depressive illness - I would not want this treatment. Indeed,
my episodic depressions have been managed for the last 20 years solely by
homeopathy, and have always responded more quickly and gently to this
modality - with much longer gaps in between episodes - several years rather
than months.

Chua Ching Yee wrote:
Hello list

Would like to have your opinion on the benefits and side-effects of ect.
Also, how will it affect the susceptibility of the patient?

Thanks.
Ching Yee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Liz Hennel]

Today it is known as "modified ECT" - the modification is the use of anaesthesia, which did not exist in Hahnemann's day. The double blind trials show that the patients who were simply aneasthetised did as well as those who were actually shocked in addition to being aneasthetised. So then you have to ask - which is the most beneficial? The aneasthesia, the shock - or the attention? The focussed attention which is intent on shocking people out of their depressed state. This sounds to me like punishment - or terrorising. It is certainly NOT gentle or permanent - neither is it particularly rapid.
The idea of ECT grew out of the misapprehension that people with epilepsy did not suffer from depressive illness. This is clearly not the case. That it continues to be used in these modern times is baffling - it beggars belief, especfially when allopathy prides itself on "rational" and "scientific" trials. ECT does not stand up to scrutiny at any level. THat patients benefit from it is not a good reason for it to be continued - placebo was /is just as good - and safer!
Liz

Chua Ching Yee wrote:
Dear Liz Hennel

Thank you for your reply. Your views coincide with what another homeopath
has told me, though I understand that many patients have benefited from this
treatment. Hahnemann in §286 said that it does "great damage to patients"
but did not elaborate. However, the way ect is administered today must be
more sophisticated than in his time. I guess it still boils down to
individual susceptibility.

Ching Yee
on 26/5/05 4:00 pm, Liz Hennel at liz_hennel@yahoo.com wrote:

Benefits - unproven - when subjected to so-called double blind trials,
no-one knows why it "works". Perhaps it is because it colludes with the
depressed patients' delusion of being unworthy - or of their desire to be
punished - again as part of their illness.
Side effects include intellectual damage - it is rarely used for people of
academic backgrounds - and it certainly affects memory. Some patients have
reported strange bodily sensations some time after the last "treatment" -
usually dismissed as delusional - but as no-one I know is capable of truly
experiencing another's' body this may be a gross injustice.
ECT is not popular in the UK thank goodness. I would have concerns for a
patient with a history of ECT, as I think it may affect their ability to
respond to homeopathic remedies - their energetic fields have been scrambled
by this violent treatment and we have no way of knowing what that means for
the Vital Force. Of course it is also about individual susceptibility and
the strength of the Vital Force in the first instance.
You will have gathered I am not a fan of ECT. I should also say I trained in
psychiatry some 30 years ago in the UK. I have seen one or two patients who
benefited from it - but still question this treatments' place. I also have
a history of depressive illness - I would not want this treatment. Indeed,
my episodic depressions have been managed for the last 20 years solely by
homeopathy, and have always responded more quickly and gently to this
modality - with much longer gaps in between episodes - several years rather
than months.

Chua Ching Yee wrote:
Hello list

Would like to have your opinion on the benefits and side-effects of ect.
Also, how will it affect the susceptibility of the patient?

Thanks.
Ching Yee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ATTENTION PLEASE:

The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.

****
ATTENTION PLEASE!!

If you do not wish to receive individual emails, send a message with the subject of 'Digest' to ashahrdar@yahoo.com to receive a single daily digest.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/minutus/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
minutus-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[muthu kumar]

I have given ECT to a number of patients during my residency years.
Though I have seen cases "improved" (controlled) by ECT, it is not a
first line treatment for anything. I have also treated patients, who
have previously had ECT with homeopathy. I did not find that they
were immune to homeopathy in any way. I have given homeopathic
treatment to children who had been on `Gardenal" right from their
birth and who responded even from their first dose of homeopathic
medicine so dramatically. So why ECT should be any different from all
these drugs? One interesting thought is to see how patients who have
had ECT would respond to may be Arnica, Opium, Hypericum, Nat.s, Phos
etc. following ECT…

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Liz Hennel wrote:
trials, no-one knows why it "works". Perhaps it is because it
colludes with the depressed patients' delusion of being unworthy - or
of their desire to be punished - again as part of their illness.
people of academic backgrounds - and it certainly affects memory.
Some patients have reported strange bodily sensations some time after
the last "treatment" - usually dismissed as delusional - but as no-
one I know is capable of truly experiencing another's' body this may
be a gross injustice.
for a patient with a history of ECT, as I think it may affect their
ability to respond to homeopathic remedies - their energetic fields
have been scrambled by this violent treatment and we have no way of
knowing what that means for the Vital Force. Of course it is also
about individual susceptibility and the strength of the Vital Force
in the first instance.
trained in psychiatry some 30 years ago in the UK. I have seen one or
two patients who benefited from it - but still question this
treatments' place. I also have a history of depressive illness - I
would not want this treatment. Indeed, my episodic depressions have
been managed for the last 20 years solely by homeopathy, and have
always responded more quickly and gently to this modality - with much
longer gaps in between episodes - several years rather than months.
ect.
Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no
representations regarding the individual suitability of the
information contained in any document read or advice or
recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email
postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use
remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its
individual members be liable for any direct, consequential,
incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and
howsoever caused.
with the subject of 'Digest' to ashahrdar@y... to receive a single
daily digest.
Service.