Off Topic Honey Question

[Patti Mount]

Hi Group,

sorry to be off topic... I was told the following about honey... does anyone
here know IF this is true?

"Honey can contain Colstridium botulinum spores (botulism) in it and so I
would be afraid to use it for aiding in wound granulation unless it is
gamma-irradiated"...

(This is not my statement nor do I wish to use the honey BUT I am just
inquiring as to the accuracy &/or reasoning behind the statement.)

Thanks for any feed-back!

best regards Patti

[Sheri Nakken]

At 06:27 PM 12/08/2004 -0500, you wrote:

Manuka honey is used much for the aid in wound granulation and never heard
of this being a problem.

Google Manuka honey - it comes from NZ
Sheri

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[J Lucas]

Dear Patti, as a bee keeper I would be asking myself how the botulism finds
its way into the honey and I would think this is happening in the commercial
processing of the honey and not from the hive. Even though the botulism
bacteria is usually a soil based bacteria it is highly unlikely that a honey
bee will get anywhere near this and transport it back to the hive.

All good honey is excellent for wounds and burns etc but I would be advising
that you purchase honey straight from a bee keeper who keeps hives in an
area that doesn¹t have crops spraying or any other heavy industrial
pollution. Honey cannot be classified as organic because you never know what
plants the bees will forage on within a 6/8 mile radius. So stay away from
heavily commercialised honey, not only for this reason but because it is
refined = boiled and even has sugar dissolved into it. And to use gamma
irradiated honey makes me cringe even more

Hope useful. Best wishes, Joy

http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 8/12/04 11:27 pm, Patti Mount at Patti@iantd.com wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Patti Mount]

Dear Joy and Sherri,

I thank you for your informative responses. As I said this "honey issue" was
not about me... I made the honey suggestion to a non-homeopathy person to
aid in wound granulation because dissolving stitches post-surgery had
dissolved too quickly and the wound is healing but wide open now. ...and my
suggestion was "bashed" for as something that might contain botulism and
kill the Pt. I originally directed the Pt to several web-based articles
about the Manuka honey in particular. The next time someone comes on to an
allopathic surgery-oriented group forum saying that they will try "anything"
I will probably keep my mouth shut... a few of us in the group do utilize
homeopathy and other "holistic healing" measures and I find that the best
use of our time is in relaying our experiences rather than offering
suggestions so I do accept that I did not follow my usual posting
protocol... BUT on the upside I definitely learned something valuable from
Joy's post about her bee-keeping experience (Thank you Joy!)

best regards as always, Patti

Dear Patti, as a bee keeper I would be asking myself how the botulism finds
its way into the honey and I would think this is happening in the commercial
processing of the honey and not from the hive. Even though the botulism
bacteria is usually a soil based bacteria it is highly unlikely that a honey
bee will get anywhere near this and transport it back to the hive.

All good honey is excellent for wounds and burns etc but I would be advising
that you purchase honey straight from a bee keeper who keeps hives in an
area that doesn¹t have crops spraying or any other heavy industrial
pollution. Honey cannot be classified as organic because you never know what
plants the bees will forage on within a 6/8 mile radius. So stay away from
heavily commercialised honey, not only for this reason but because it is
refined = boiled and even has sugar dissolved into it. And to use gamma
irradiated honey makes me cringe even more

Hope useful. Best wishes, Joy

[Simon King LCPH MARH]

Where did that come from Patti?

SK
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Patti Mount]

Hi Simon,

I belong to another yahoo support & "knowledge" group for Orthopedically
challenged/surgical dogs. One of the dogs on the list had a lump removed
from its inner lip and sent for biopsy - the dissolving sutures dissolved
too quickly and the incision line is in the healing mode (non-oozy,
non-bloody, seemingly non-infected) but nonetheless it is now an open
wound - the Vet who performed the surgery suggested Betadyne applications to
encourage healing - but I feared it would exacerbate the tissue rather than
encourage healing... when I sent on-line Manuka honey articles to the List
my posts were challenged as potential botulism poisoning... and so here we
are!

Personally, I am satisfied because now it has prompted more learning on THIS
list even if the dog is not helped to its full potential as that is not
under my "control"...you can lead a horse to water but... when one is open
and ready, the master will appear.

best regards Patti

[Shannon Nelson]

I agree that it's not only Manuka honey that's useful for this! For years
I've used "regular" honey (whatever unheated and etc. honey I find
available) for healing up cuts, and especially for a cut that is deep enough
to gap open (the sort you'd like to put a stitch or butterfly bandage on).
Honey somedraws the edges of the cut together, so it heals faster and (at
least in the not-so-major ones I've used it for) without scarring, where I
would have expected the cut to leave a scar. It's also soothing, and
protects the cut from bacteria.

It's standard practice not to give honey to infants under one year of age,
and I *think* that possible botulism contamination is the reason(?), but
since even an infant of *one* year is evidently not at risk, it would seem
that the contamination--if present--never amounts to much??

Shannon
on 12/9/04 7:20 AM, J Lucas at j.lucas@ntlworld.com wrote:

[Patti Mount]

Thanks Shannon... what you are writing is what I am familiar with too... I
thought the irradiation part was a bit extreme though so that is why I wrote
in here...

best Patti

I agree that it's not only Manuka honey that's useful for this! For years
I've used "regular" honey (whatever unheated and etc. honey I find
available) for healing up cuts, and especially for a cut that is deep enough
to gap open (the sort you'd like to put a stitch or butterfly bandage on).
Honey somedraws the edges of the cut together, so it heals faster and (at
least in the not-so-major ones I've used it for) without scarring, where I
would have expected the cut to leave a scar. It's also soothing, and
protects the cut from bacteria.

It's standard practice not to give honey to infants under one year of age,
and I *think* that possible botulism contamination is the reason(?), but
since even an infant of *one* year is evidently not at risk, it would seem
that the contamination--if present--never amounts to much??

Shannon

[dusty1197]

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Robert&Shannon Nelson
wrote:
of age,

*** This has always been my understanding as well, Shannon.

Toni

[Rosemary C Hyde PhD]

As someone pointed out, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense (why would under one year be more susceptible to botulism???). I would suspect rather that there's a choking risk for younger infants, because the honey is sticky (like peanut butter, which they also warn about for infants). Rosemary