potency/time

[VBLUES]

In einer eMail vom 16.07.04 00:55:00 (MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerzeit schreibt
shannonnelson@tds.net:

<< Please take my point:
What you describe as "standard approach" is one that I have never heard
before. Therefore, tho it may be "standard" within certain circles, it is
not "standard" for the worldwide stage upon which you are now speaking.
Neither Hahnemann nor Kent, or any of Hahnemann's pupils so far as I am
aware, have taught any such approach (if I'm wrong in this, I am eager to be
corrected!). In addition, I have read *lots* of books, attended *lots* of
seminars, and have never heard this approach taught, so I balk at calling it
"standard approach" and everything else "deviations".
I am interested to hear this approach and have no doubt that it works fine
*so long as* one is aware of those situations where a patient (of any age)
must *not* be given a high potency. However in my experience low potencies
can often/usually(?) do the work of high potencies, so long as doses are
repeated and if necessary raised, as needed.
Please share your experience about this: In treating younger patients with
these low potencies (esp. 30 and below), do you find this adequate for "all"
situations, including e.g. severe acutes, or severe emotional states (which
can occur in babies and children too!)?
Can you say a bit about how often you typically repeat doses, and is this
frequency the same with babies/low potencies as with adults/high potencies?
Shannon
16.7.4.
Standard appproach is the one applying, well, in about 80% of the cases. THIS
IS the standard approach in every seriously working homeopathic practice or
whatever.
As I told you before - in the most FRIENDLY possible way, I do hope this is
clear - it is a matter of the people one meets at the very beginning, the
teachers he gets.
So here I do have doubts actually, not necessary in your personal case - you
made several statements which did sound competent, one of the reasons why it
is my pleasure to argue with you, there are several other competent persons
here (my opinion) - but in the case of others in this forum I have doubts, even
strong ones.
I mean, at the beginning, one has to get really good people, really competent
and experienced, people who know what they are talking about and who have the
pedagogical gift to lead the pupil, the beginner, on the right way.
I am not sure this happens all over the place. It would be much to beautiful.
It does not even happen here, and here we are, in a way, "at home", even if
homeopathy actually started somewhere else, but here it is "at home". Even
here, there is so much bogus offered, so many stupidities and unrelated things,
"sick" logic, curved way of thinking and, as such, far away from reality.
Misinterpretations, speculation, etc.
I told you about this "small kitchen homeopathy", in which every mother or
every nurse or every "witch"(!) believes being able to treat her child
homeopathical better than any doctor of course!!! But these mothers do not even know
how to write the word "homeopathy" correct, to put it blunt. They read about it
in some yellow press or saw something on TV and here they go. Let us keep
staying in reality, please!
Actually in Europe, there are maybe 4-5 places today where real good
homeopathy is taught, where real good, competent people are at work, the rest is
speculation, fantasy, wishfull thinking, you name it. As I told you, the very good
homeopaths do not write books because they do not have time or muse to do it
or if, than they write just a few and that's it, in small publishing houses,
500-1000 copies no more, which WE buy first so that lay people do not even hear
that such a book was published, they would not understand it any way (!), not
profit oriented but for love for the stuff as such, out of vice if you want.
There is no money to be made in THIS way with homeopathy. One has to love it,
to sacrifice for the sake of it. The rest is commerce!!!! But commerce has
nothing to do with medicine.
So I stress once again the absolute crucial importance of basic, long,
serious training/learning, good books and good teachers - as I exposed to you few
days ago.
You can safely take that for granted, as a gift with ... kind regards, from
Dr.medic. Viorel V. Bucur (www.dr-bucur.com).

[Shannon Nelson]

Ouch, Julian, I think you read my meaning as opposite of what I intended!!!
What you have quoted under VBLUES' name below is *my* quote, and my
description of what *I* understand as "standard". The approach that *he*
was calling standard -- which I said I had never encountered before, was
(someone correct me if I have details wrong): infants and children get
potencies up to 12c; teens get 12-30; adults get 200-1M.

Have you heard that approach before?

Cheers,
Shannon
on 7/16/04 3:52 PM, Julian Winston at jwinston@actrix.gen.nz wrote:

[Shannon Nelson]

Well thankyou.
To further help my understanding of the approach you describe, can you tell
me:

I am curious whether your experience in these specific respects if different
from mine.

Thankyou,
Shannon
on 7/16/04 6:38 AM, VBLUES@aol.com at VBLUES@aol.com wrote:

[dayanandcv]

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Bob&Shannon
wrote:
intended!!!
that *he*
before, was
get
never heard
circles, it is
speaking.
as I am
eager to be
*lots* of
at calling it
trained
*patient's
(fast pace =
complicated to
picture/certain of the
expertise of
Most of
School
very
Every medicine or drug has a plane of action and the same with
different potencies of the drug. Different potencies have their own
plane of action. Take it as high or low. Again, diseases have their
higher and lower planes. So if you give higher potency if will act on
a different higher plane leaving the lower plane of action. And
during the same time if you give a low potency of a different
medicine it will act on a lower plane without disturbing the action
of higher plane. This is usual practice while giving constitutional
treatment in Homoeopathy where a constitutional medicine is given in
high potency, which acts for months and low potency any time, or any
indicated drug during acute troubles. But in prescribing in this way
you must give time to higher potency, usually 24 or 48 hours and then
give low potency if need arises. Even the low potencies can be
repeated with out disturbing the action of higher potencies given for
action on higher plane.

Selection of Potency

If ever in future the selection of potency corresponding with the Law
of Similars in Homoeopathy is synchronized, the solution for which
all intellectual giants in Homoeopathy are struggling and which so
far eluded all-then all diseases can be tackled with success and the
life of the patients can be prolonged till old age claims reluctant
victims. I declare that if I can find out the indicated potency
required for each patient's condition, I shall cure each and
every
curable disease, because it is not difficult to find out a
similimum. The hurdle comes for the selection of the potency, which
is so great that each and every Homoeopath differs, from Hahnemann to
the present generation. Whenever I have experimented the other
man's
experience and the different potencies mentioned by our predecessors
are administered, we come up with failures. This is true, but our
present so-called Masters do not agree. Medicines have changed,
patients have changed and so the teachings in Homoeopathy have been
changed to suit a few among the Homoeopaths, to modernize Homeopathy
and the potency problem has become a subject of controversy and a
headache to the aspiring students. They neither follow Hahnemann nor
Kent, but follow the modern breech-presented teachers-who misguide
them to prescribe either high and highest or the low and lowest.
There are no hard and fast rules for potencies but from the various
authenticated authors and from a wide range of literature the
following condition can be drawn.

Potencies Prepared according to various stages:

1. Decimal 1/10 (X).
2. Centesimal 1/100 (C).
3. 50 Millesimal 1/50000 (L.M).

Various stages of Potencies:
General to be followed:

1.The susceptibility of the patient:
Irritable— low, Fearful—
low.
Tautopathic way.
f. Reaction in pathological conditions: Low.
g. Over Sensitive: Low.

2. The seat of the disease:

e. Physiological disturbances: Low and Medium.

3. Stage and duration of the disease:

c. Of long duration—depending on pathology: low and medium.
d. Active vitality High.
e. Acute conditions: Medium.

4. Nature of the disease or magnitude of the disease:

repetition.
5. Previous treatment with drugs:

crude or antidote or give

6. For palliation:
7. Action of various drugs:

A. (a) Acute medicines: Medium and High.

B. Nosodes High—200 and above.

C. Constitutional drugs: High and infrequent
doses.

D. Dual action remedies and potencies:
(a). Silicia Low promotes suppuration. High aborts.
(b). Hepar Sulph: Low promotes suppuration. High aborts.
High breaks up

General Rules Which I follow for 50 Millesimal:

Potency preference:-
1. The potency to be given is a matter of experience and
observation and not yet a law.
2. The 0/3 or 0/6 is a good one to start with.
3. Many times, I put a patient on a serious of potencies 0/3,
0/6, 0/12, 0/18, 0/24, and 0/30 if the medicine is the similimum.
4. Sensitivity to potencies varies in patients. The plane of
potency of medicine must have harmony with the disease plane in the
patient.
5. To treat constitutional diseases such as asthma, migraine,
arthritis, gastric ulcer, colitis, I usually go with series or I
repeat 0/30 potencies, at an interval of 6 days.
6. For prescribing potencies I usually find the disease plane of
the patient. To know the disease plane I value symptoms in gradation
according to my ways. No doubt it is very difficult to explain, but
in the near future I would like to find out the way to give to others
my ways to know the disease plane and the medicinal plane of action.

Extract from the book of " My experiments with 50 millesimal
potencies" 1960, by Dr.R.P.Patel, D.M.S (cal), D. F. Hom.
(London),
L. M. (Dublin). Etc.
(Dr.R.P.Patel is a Teacher, Writer, Researcher, Prescriber, Editor
and Pharmacist in Homeopathy in India and we take him as an authority
in Homoeopathy especially in "Tautopathy" and "50
Milleseimal scale
Potencies").
0

[VBLUES]

In einer eMail vom 16.07.04 13:55:18 (MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerzeit schreibt
shannonnelson@tds.net:

<< Well thankyou.
To further help my understanding of the approach you describe, can you tell
me:
"all"
I am curious whether your experience in these specific respects if different
from mine.
Thankyou,
Shannon
16.7.4.
Well, the way I proceed is as follows in standard cases. Of course, there are
exceptions here and there.
Constitutionally, I repeat, if necessary, a C200 in about 4-5 weeks, once or
twice. Most of the constitutionals are in this range of action. No more.
Should the first case-taking be extremely eloquent, then I start directly with a
C1000 and that will be always enough. It must work or otherwise the case must be
redone - the initial diagnosis was wrong or partially wrong, so I hit only
part of the picture - quite often. This will be seen in the second case-taking,
as you call it, which is crucial for the further way. Full hits, on the spot,
constitutionally, are rare, even with very experienced homeopaths - usually
the patients never comes again or you totally missed and than he eventually does
not come again neither, although usually the first option is the one. You
will hear of it by chance, meeting the person much later in other circumstances
or from a common acquintance or so.
Superficial remedies ("layers", if you want) depend on the thing you have -
they may be repeated several times a day, several days in a row, depending on
the clinics, on the feed-back the patient offers. For the fast ones, you are
getting the picture also very fast - if good or not. Like, let's say, Apis and
Lachesis in certain bites or Belladonna or else.
The potentiation + age + state of vitality (which I usually appreciate by the
tongue, I do this because I studied chinese medicine, too - I admit it is not
homeopathic but practically very useful and simple ; every patient coming to
me for the first time has to show me the tongue, no matter why he is here in
the first place ; just to know where he is at!) are decisive. I always use the
scheme I told you and until now, I went good with it so ... "never change a
winning team", all right? I learned it from others of course, from many others.
So I proceed always in the same "classical" way : case-taking on a big and
detailed scale, remedy (never prescribe but give them from my own drawer, in a
very small paper bag I get from my pharmacyst ; I order the remedies from a
certain source I will not name here, always the same and give them to the
patients here or, if just not available, order the specific remedy and than give the
patient a call to come and pick it up). Second case-taking appointment is made
after the first one, because I usually know in what time he has to come
again, to evaluate what happened or not.
If the patient stays with us, than you will know him forever, so every change
ocurring under way no matter when, you will already usually know what is
going on or at least have a close suspicion. This a second great advantage of a
detailed, acribic first case-taking, with patience, etc.
In children things are easier, of course. Up to 12 or 14, the case taking is
made with one of the parents, goes faster and in children also, some time
diagnosis on the spot is possible, with a low range of errors.
There are collegues with so-called telephonic feed-back from the patient,
telling the patient to call them in 3 hours time and than in other 3 hours or
things like these. To me, this is exagerated.
I also use placebo of course, which I have from the same source and which
looks and tastes similar, by nature. Here and there I introduce placebo to keep
the patient in the row, disciplined. Some of them are not that compliant or too
stupid to understand actually what they should look at or notice about,
because they heard or read in the internet that this or that must be so and not so
and etc., etc. This is the point where I am close to explode, which I usually
do not unless I have a bad day or the wrong mood in the moment.
I forgot to tell you something important for Medorrhinum - these people
always like very much, sour, juicy fruit, usually apples, Granny Smith type or
close, but sour not ripe ; they eat them with great fervour and at once in great
quantities.
It popped up in m mind yesterday while I ate one for myself.
Kind regards, Dr.medic. Viorel V. Bucur (www.dr-bucur.com).

[VBLUES]

In einer eMail vom 16.07.04 11:08:02 (MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerzeit schreibt
jwinston@actrix.gen.nz:

<< Most interesting.
Shannon. Have you read "Science of Homeopathy" by Vithoulkas? Most of
the ideas here about potency selection are expressed there-- the
vitality, the pace, the depth, the clarity. And most of that comes
from Kent.
This "standard approach" is what we teach at our school when
discussing potency selection. It was what we taught at the NCH School
when I was there from 1980-1992.
I suggest that your books and seminars might be lacking in some very
basic concepts.
JW
16.7.4.
Thank you very much for this remark, I consider adequate. You are obviously
very correct. Kind regards, Dr.medic. Viorel V. Bucur (www.dr-bucur.com).
P.S. Extensive studies on gallstone carriers, show beyond ANY doubt, that
after 20 years, the chance to get gallbladder carcinoma rises breathless high. So
operation ...laparoscopic, as soon as possible, by a surgeon doing this on a
every day basis.
I very much appreciate your remarks and your corectness as a whole, so I had
to be kind to you, too. I just had a impulse "inside" for this - do not know
what remedy it might be behind this ...