Homoeopathy has always from its beginning attracted healthy debate and I hope it will continue to do so, but it is possible to make the criticisms constructive with arguments supporting why you think it is a "mental wank" ? I for one am not being "swallowed up your own backside" as you confess to be happening as a result of being exposed to the work of Divya or Rajan.Liz Lalor
At 4:38 AM +0000 7/10/04, hahnemannian2002 wrote:
Indeed. There ARE times when it might help... but this is in the
hands of someone with years of experience with Materia Mdica. This is
NOT stuff that should be taught to students at an early level.
It seems so, sorry to say.
I feel the same. A giant mental wank.
One you start down that track, there IS no end. And THAT is the problem. It becomes a circular ride where you eventually get swallowed up your own backside.
The provings give the true pictures of the remedies-- when you have good provings.
Reading into it is always fraught with danger.
And too many people are NOT aware of the mental wank they have departed upon.
JW
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
constructive arguments?
Re: constructive arguments?
I would like to know what it is that bothers you about the inner conflict of
lac felinum being that of a prostitute?
Joy
www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
At 4:38 AM +0000 7/10/04, hahnemannian2002 wrote:
lac felinum being that of a prostitute?
Joy
www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
At 4:38 AM +0000 7/10/04, hahnemannian2002 wrote:
-
Julian Winston
- Posts: 622
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: constructive arguments?
At 5:20 PM +1000 7/11/04, liz lalor wrote:
Since this seems to be addressed to me, I'll reply.
What I have seen happening, with increasing frequency, is the
movement (in homeopathy) away from the rationality of the early
practitioners and more into the etheric realms of Sulphurous
metaphysical speculation.
Now, IF (and that IS a BIG "IF") the authors of such speculative work
would at last admit that the work IS speculative, it would be one
thing, but they don't. And people take it often at a deeper value
than it deserves.
The latest issue of LINKS contained a letter from Robin Logan to
"jeff" commenting upon an article written in an earlier issue. Robin
says it so well, that I will quote him here:
"There is more of a tendency to this than ever as people now use
methods that bring up remedies that could not have been found by any
other means. Some see this as progress, but I do wonder sometimes.
What does it say about what we have been doing for the last 200 years?
"What you call the 'guesswork-method' is something we all do from
time to time. However, like you, I have found it less necessary to
try all the different analysis methods and weightings you describe.
That is because, over the years, I have become increasingly confident
in the basic method I apply to all cases."
(at this point Robin discusses a case that was presented, and suggest
the remedy Mercurius.)
"You use 'unhstructured speech and general oversensitivity' as
reasons for choosing a plant remedy. To me, they are also perfect
resons for choosing Mercurius. You also use the desire for fruit and
vegetables as an indication for the plant kingdom. I am baffled by
this. What about Lachesis, the Mags, Sulphuric aicid, Alumina, Natrum
mur, etc? And sensitivity to sunlighyt as a confirmation for the
plant kingdom? Are you sure Jeff? I can see where you are coming
from, but for me this is a perfect example of how we can mislead
ourselves by applying oversimplified justifications for our decisions
too readily. *It concerns me that novice homeopaths are being taught
things like this* (MY Emphasis--JW)
"The 'obviousness' of the 'Leprosy Miasm' in your case depends on
whether you subscribe to a particular school of homeopathic thought
so may not be obvious to many. Has there ever been a discussion as to
whether such a thing actually exists?
"Suddenly almost all the cases we see presented at seminars and in
journals, are prescribed remedies that could only have been found by
a new method practiced by a minority. Frequently, the curative
remedy, arrived at by such a method, if it is one of our old
remedies, is not the simillimum in the normal homeopathic sense
(symptom similarity). To me, the 'New Homeopathy' asks more questions
than it answers, and not enough people are asking those questions."
Maybe YOU (liz) can separate the what from the chaff, but there are
an increasing number of people who seemingly cannot do so and become
enamored of such mental wanking (otherwise called endless
metaphysical speculation), and to such stuff there is no end as you
get deeper and deeper in the "meaning" of it all.
I see the direction that "new homeopathy" is going, and I worry about it.
People are so willing to absorb the latest thinking of the latest
guru that they are forgetting that cures can be had with Pulsatilla,
Nux, Sepia, Sulphur, etc.
They are losing the basics.
And it saddens me.
JW
Since this seems to be addressed to me, I'll reply.
What I have seen happening, with increasing frequency, is the
movement (in homeopathy) away from the rationality of the early
practitioners and more into the etheric realms of Sulphurous
metaphysical speculation.
Now, IF (and that IS a BIG "IF") the authors of such speculative work
would at last admit that the work IS speculative, it would be one
thing, but they don't. And people take it often at a deeper value
than it deserves.
The latest issue of LINKS contained a letter from Robin Logan to
"jeff" commenting upon an article written in an earlier issue. Robin
says it so well, that I will quote him here:
"There is more of a tendency to this than ever as people now use
methods that bring up remedies that could not have been found by any
other means. Some see this as progress, but I do wonder sometimes.
What does it say about what we have been doing for the last 200 years?
"What you call the 'guesswork-method' is something we all do from
time to time. However, like you, I have found it less necessary to
try all the different analysis methods and weightings you describe.
That is because, over the years, I have become increasingly confident
in the basic method I apply to all cases."
(at this point Robin discusses a case that was presented, and suggest
the remedy Mercurius.)
"You use 'unhstructured speech and general oversensitivity' as
reasons for choosing a plant remedy. To me, they are also perfect
resons for choosing Mercurius. You also use the desire for fruit and
vegetables as an indication for the plant kingdom. I am baffled by
this. What about Lachesis, the Mags, Sulphuric aicid, Alumina, Natrum
mur, etc? And sensitivity to sunlighyt as a confirmation for the
plant kingdom? Are you sure Jeff? I can see where you are coming
from, but for me this is a perfect example of how we can mislead
ourselves by applying oversimplified justifications for our decisions
too readily. *It concerns me that novice homeopaths are being taught
things like this* (MY Emphasis--JW)
"The 'obviousness' of the 'Leprosy Miasm' in your case depends on
whether you subscribe to a particular school of homeopathic thought
so may not be obvious to many. Has there ever been a discussion as to
whether such a thing actually exists?
"Suddenly almost all the cases we see presented at seminars and in
journals, are prescribed remedies that could only have been found by
a new method practiced by a minority. Frequently, the curative
remedy, arrived at by such a method, if it is one of our old
remedies, is not the simillimum in the normal homeopathic sense
(symptom similarity). To me, the 'New Homeopathy' asks more questions
than it answers, and not enough people are asking those questions."
Maybe YOU (liz) can separate the what from the chaff, but there are
an increasing number of people who seemingly cannot do so and become
enamored of such mental wanking (otherwise called endless
metaphysical speculation), and to such stuff there is no end as you
get deeper and deeper in the "meaning" of it all.
I see the direction that "new homeopathy" is going, and I worry about it.
People are so willing to absorb the latest thinking of the latest
guru that they are forgetting that cures can be had with Pulsatilla,
Nux, Sepia, Sulphur, etc.
They are losing the basics.
And it saddens me.
JW
Re: constructive arguments?
Julian I emphasize and acknowledge your heart felt emotion and never doubt
your faith to the principles you uphold this is not in question and I can
see you feel deeply about this and this I honour. I ask simply that your
criticism be more constructive and not to much more of the "wank" nature.
You are obviously eloquently gifted, use it, and put your pen to explaining
as to why you have a problem with the particular analyses as prescribed by
Diyva on the cat and Rajan on the snake. Liz
----- >
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of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site
or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential,
incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever
caused.
subject of 'Digest' to minutusgroup@yahoo.com to receive a single daily
digest.
your faith to the principles you uphold this is not in question and I can
see you feel deeply about this and this I honour. I ask simply that your
criticism be more constructive and not to much more of the "wank" nature.
You are obviously eloquently gifted, use it, and put your pen to explaining
as to why you have a problem with the particular analyses as prescribed by
Diyva on the cat and Rajan on the snake. Liz
----- >
and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations
regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any
document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this
website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out
of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site
or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential,
incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever
caused.
subject of 'Digest' to minutusgroup@yahoo.com to receive a single daily
digest.
-
muthu kumar
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 10:00 pm
Re: constructive arguments?
I do not argue with the fact that Lac Felinum could produce
a "delusion" that he is a prostitute. To explain that it is because
cats domesticated themselves that this is happening is illogical.
That is why I ask if other organs of cat would also have the same
symptom after all they are part of the same prostitute cat.
In the question of prostitution - there are different ways people end
up in this profession. Some even because they like it, some because
they were drugged and dragged into this... When you use a simile and
it is your central theme it is always better to be clear what you
mean.
Please read Limulus ( King Crab) in Boericke. There is a mention of
Hering 's proving- how he found after dissecting the King Crab he
found the blood was blue and so thought that this could be a good
medicine for Cholera since the blueness could be because of Copper.
May be it is called King crab because it is blue blooded. And
Boericke also mentions how further provings are necessary and clnical
experience seems that this is probable. This is an abject lesson off
how research and true progress could be made. We have to build a
Science of Homeopathy and empty theories are not the way to do it.
If this King Crab gets to these interpretation masters they will say
this is the medicine for Royalty and spin a story for this.
-- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, J Lucas wrote:
conflict of
so
a "delusion" that he is a prostitute. To explain that it is because
cats domesticated themselves that this is happening is illogical.
That is why I ask if other organs of cat would also have the same
symptom after all they are part of the same prostitute cat.
In the question of prostitution - there are different ways people end
up in this profession. Some even because they like it, some because
they were drugged and dragged into this... When you use a simile and
it is your central theme it is always better to be clear what you
mean.
Please read Limulus ( King Crab) in Boericke. There is a mention of
Hering 's proving- how he found after dissecting the King Crab he
found the blood was blue and so thought that this could be a good
medicine for Cholera since the blueness could be because of Copper.
May be it is called King crab because it is blue blooded. And
Boericke also mentions how further provings are necessary and clnical
experience seems that this is probable. This is an abject lesson off
how research and true progress could be made. We have to build a
Science of Homeopathy and empty theories are not the way to do it.
If this King Crab gets to these interpretation masters they will say
this is the medicine for Royalty and spin a story for this.
-- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, J Lucas wrote:
conflict of
so
Re: constructive arguments?
But prostitution isn't just a profession is it? Some choose it, many don't,
but it is also a metaphor, it is all about corruption and debasement amongst
other things and in the broader scope of the mechanisms of the social world
this has significance. So many of us do what we don't really want to be
doing = inability to adapt = disharmony = ill health. Many of the milks have
this conflict as a central threat in their sx picture.
As for Limulus - King crab, it is better to refer to them as horseshoe crabs
(called king simply because of their size). When the horseshoe crabs get
stranded on the sand on their backs they use their horseshoe tail to turn
themselves upright again. If they cannot achieve this, they die. This might
give reason to the fact that bodily and mental exhaustion are characteristic
sx of this remedy.
I will let you make of that what you will.
Joy
www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 11/7/04 2:26 PM, hahnemannian2002 at hahnemannian2002@yahoo.com wrote:
I do not argue with the fact that Lac Felinum could produce
a "delusion" that he is a prostitute. To explain that it is because
cats domesticated themselves that this is happening is illogical.
That is why I ask if other organs of cat would also have the same
symptom after all they are part of the same prostitute cat.
In the question of prostitution - there are different ways people end
up in this profession. Some even because they like it, some because
they were drugged and dragged into this... When you use a simile and
it is your central theme it is always better to be clear what you
mean.
Please read Limulus ( King Crab) in Boericke. There is a mention of
Hering 's proving- how he found after dissecting the King Crab he
found the blood was blue and so thought that this could be a good
medicine for Cholera since the blueness could be because of Copper.
May be it is called King crab because it is blue blooded. And
Boericke also mentions how further provings are necessary and clnical
experience seems that this is probable. This is an abject lesson off
how research and true progress could be made. We have to build a
Science of Homeopathy and empty theories are not the way to do it.
If this King Crab gets to these interpretation masters they will say
this is the medicine for Royalty and spin a story for this.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
but it is also a metaphor, it is all about corruption and debasement amongst
other things and in the broader scope of the mechanisms of the social world
this has significance. So many of us do what we don't really want to be
doing = inability to adapt = disharmony = ill health. Many of the milks have
this conflict as a central threat in their sx picture.
As for Limulus - King crab, it is better to refer to them as horseshoe crabs
(called king simply because of their size). When the horseshoe crabs get
stranded on the sand on their backs they use their horseshoe tail to turn
themselves upright again. If they cannot achieve this, they die. This might
give reason to the fact that bodily and mental exhaustion are characteristic
sx of this remedy.
I will let you make of that what you will.
Joy
www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 11/7/04 2:26 PM, hahnemannian2002 at hahnemannian2002@yahoo.com wrote:
I do not argue with the fact that Lac Felinum could produce
a "delusion" that he is a prostitute. To explain that it is because
cats domesticated themselves that this is happening is illogical.
That is why I ask if other organs of cat would also have the same
symptom after all they are part of the same prostitute cat.
In the question of prostitution - there are different ways people end
up in this profession. Some even because they like it, some because
they were drugged and dragged into this... When you use a simile and
it is your central theme it is always better to be clear what you
mean.
Please read Limulus ( King Crab) in Boericke. There is a mention of
Hering 's proving- how he found after dissecting the King Crab he
found the blood was blue and so thought that this could be a good
medicine for Cholera since the blueness could be because of Copper.
May be it is called King crab because it is blue blooded. And
Boericke also mentions how further provings are necessary and clnical
experience seems that this is probable. This is an abject lesson off
how research and true progress could be made. We have to build a
Science of Homeopathy and empty theories are not the way to do it.
If this King Crab gets to these interpretation masters they will say
this is the medicine for Royalty and spin a story for this.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: constructive arguments?
Surely some of this begs the question "why do we need more remedies, why
can't we stick with what we have?" And surely this is because homeopathy is
still evolving, and by this I do not mean in a way that is not Hahnemannian
but it is evolving to suit different social and political requirements. In
this sense nothing stands still. If we need more remedies then perhaps we
need new methodologies as well. We are going to get them whether we want
them or not it seems.
But in many ways I agree with your concerns, mainly because I witness so
many people trying to clone methods from those who have enormous experience.
People want a quick fire and/or attractive method of working on cases and if
they do not have the experience to back that up they soon find themselves in
psycho babble land with completely messed up cases. Because what actually
happens isn't a cloning at all, merely a dreadfully weak substitute. This
puts extra pressure on the homeopathic teaching profession to sort this out
- to make sure that training is as good as it can be.
Personally I think it makes life more interesting and you can take it or
leave it, but more importantly everyone has to learn the basics and much,
much more - then and only then can they develop their own confirmed methods
which have to stand the test of time and cure. Surely Sankaran has achieved
that!
Best wishes, Joy
www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 12/7/04 12:09 AM, Julian Winston at jwinston@actrix.gen.nz wrote:
At 5:20 PM +1000 7/11/04, liz lalor wrote:
Since this seems to be addressed to me, I'll reply.
What I have seen happening, with increasing frequency, is the
movement (in homeopathy) away from the rationality of the early
practitioners and more into the etheric realms of Sulphurous
metaphysical speculation.
Now, IF (and that IS a BIG "IF") the authors of such speculative work
would at last admit that the work IS speculative, it would be one
thing, but they don't. And people take it often at a deeper value
than it deserves.
edited
Maybe YOU (liz) can separate the what from the chaff, but there are
an increasing number of people who seemingly cannot do so and become
enamored of such mental wanking (otherwise called endless
metaphysical speculation), and to such stuff there is no end as you
get deeper and deeper in the "meaning" of it all.
I see the direction that "new homeopathy" is going, and I worry about it.
People are so willing to absorb the latest thinking of the latest
guru that they are forgetting that cures can be had with Pulsatilla,
Nux, Sepia, Sulphur, etc.
They are losing the basics.
And it saddens me.
JW
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
can't we stick with what we have?" And surely this is because homeopathy is
still evolving, and by this I do not mean in a way that is not Hahnemannian
but it is evolving to suit different social and political requirements. In
this sense nothing stands still. If we need more remedies then perhaps we
need new methodologies as well. We are going to get them whether we want
them or not it seems.
But in many ways I agree with your concerns, mainly because I witness so
many people trying to clone methods from those who have enormous experience.
People want a quick fire and/or attractive method of working on cases and if
they do not have the experience to back that up they soon find themselves in
psycho babble land with completely messed up cases. Because what actually
happens isn't a cloning at all, merely a dreadfully weak substitute. This
puts extra pressure on the homeopathic teaching profession to sort this out
- to make sure that training is as good as it can be.
Personally I think it makes life more interesting and you can take it or
leave it, but more importantly everyone has to learn the basics and much,
much more - then and only then can they develop their own confirmed methods
which have to stand the test of time and cure. Surely Sankaran has achieved
that!
Best wishes, Joy
www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 12/7/04 12:09 AM, Julian Winston at jwinston@actrix.gen.nz wrote:
At 5:20 PM +1000 7/11/04, liz lalor wrote:
Since this seems to be addressed to me, I'll reply.
What I have seen happening, with increasing frequency, is the
movement (in homeopathy) away from the rationality of the early
practitioners and more into the etheric realms of Sulphurous
metaphysical speculation.
Now, IF (and that IS a BIG "IF") the authors of such speculative work
would at last admit that the work IS speculative, it would be one
thing, but they don't. And people take it often at a deeper value
than it deserves.
edited
Maybe YOU (liz) can separate the what from the chaff, but there are
an increasing number of people who seemingly cannot do so and become
enamored of such mental wanking (otherwise called endless
metaphysical speculation), and to such stuff there is no end as you
get deeper and deeper in the "meaning" of it all.
I see the direction that "new homeopathy" is going, and I worry about it.
People are so willing to absorb the latest thinking of the latest
guru that they are forgetting that cures can be had with Pulsatilla,
Nux, Sepia, Sulphur, etc.
They are losing the basics.
And it saddens me.
JW
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Ginny Wilken
- Posts: 324
- Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:00 pm
Re: constructive arguments?
Just a small point: king crabs and horseshoe crabs are two completely
different species. Although horseshoe crabs are also called king crabs,
the true king crab is the Alaskan or Japanese crab, reaching up to six
feet in legspan.
ginny
All stunts performed without a net!
different species. Although horseshoe crabs are also called king crabs,
the true king crab is the Alaskan or Japanese crab, reaching up to six
feet in legspan.
ginny
All stunts performed without a net!
Re: constructive arguments?
yes there are many but we are referring to the homeopathic limulus - even
Boericke calls it the horsefoot crab. There is also a great deal of debate
whether they are crabs at all - some put them in the spider family I believe
- so yes, a small point.
best, Joy
www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 11/7/04 5:18 PM, ginny wilken at gwilken@alamedanet.net wrote:
Just a small point: king crabs and horseshoe crabs are two completely
different species. Although horseshoe crabs are also called king crabs,
the true king crab is the Alaskan or Japanese crab, reaching up to six
feet in legspan.
ginny
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Boericke calls it the horsefoot crab. There is also a great deal of debate
whether they are crabs at all - some put them in the spider family I believe
- so yes, a small point.
best, Joy
www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 11/7/04 5:18 PM, ginny wilken at gwilken@alamedanet.net wrote:
Just a small point: king crabs and horseshoe crabs are two completely
different species. Although horseshoe crabs are also called king crabs,
the true king crab is the Alaskan or Japanese crab, reaching up to six
feet in legspan.
ginny
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: constructive arguments?
yes there are many but we are referring to the homeopathic limulus - even
Boericke calls it the horsefoot crab. There is also a great deal of debate
whether they are crabs at all - some put them in the spider family I believe
- so yes, a small point.
best, Joy
www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 11/7/04 5:18 PM, ginny wilken at gwilken@alamedanet.net wrote:
Just a small point: king crabs and horseshoe crabs are two completely
different species. Although horseshoe crabs are also called king crabs,
the true king crab is the Alaskan or Japanese crab, reaching up to six
feet in legspan.
ginny
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Boericke calls it the horsefoot crab. There is also a great deal of debate
whether they are crabs at all - some put them in the spider family I believe
- so yes, a small point.
best, Joy
www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 11/7/04 5:18 PM, ginny wilken at gwilken@alamedanet.net wrote:
Just a small point: king crabs and horseshoe crabs are two completely
different species. Although horseshoe crabs are also called king crabs,
the true king crab is the Alaskan or Japanese crab, reaching up to six
feet in legspan.
ginny
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]