potentized vaccin/ homeopathy or isopathy

[Eleana Needham]

Thank you Feras for the timely pointer... I have a patient at the moment who
has SO MUCH iatrogenic pathology, it is frightening. The sad thing is that
most of this type of grief comes from the physicians' desire to do good...
What was the saying? "The road to hell is paved with good intentions..."

Regards
Eleana

[Shannon Nelson]

Wendy, this is lovely!!!
And I think it does go far toward explaining why physical cures can come
thru M/E approaches, and also why a remedy that *truly* cures (not just
palliates nor God forbid suppresses) physical symptoms, also brings such
"blessed relief" to the inner state. I like it!!!!
Shannon
on 11/12/03 11:05 AM, Wendy Howard at wendy@rachan.worldonline.co.uk wrote:

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

That is where the danger lies, using something that is not indicated.
Your saliva was in contact with the gums, fine, but not a pathological secretion, hence not likely to be of any use.
Analogy: you want to treat a pathological vaginal discharge by this method, are you going to use urine? of course not!

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

[Julian Winston]

At 3:58 AM -0800 11/12/03, Feras Hakkak wrote:

A small point. *Similar* is not *identical*. I forget who said it
(Hering perhaps?): "The statue of Napoleon is not Napoleon."

The remedy is *similar* to the disease but it is NOT the disease.

100% similarity means that it *appears* to be like it in all aspects.
But it is NOT the same thing.

JW

[Julian Winston]

At 5:05 PM +0000 11/12/03, Wendy Howard wrote:

Well, I figured you wouldn't be happy with it since you haven't been
in the past!
Of course!

[snip a whole bunch]
Don't know about "eastern" but "wrong thinking" goes to the heart of
Kent's philosophy.

[snip]
Yes. This all certainly makes sense.
The small crack which it has is that you are thinking about PEOPLE--
those with the consciousness to "wrong think" even if they are not
aware of it.
But how does it apply to animals? Can the cat, who has cancer of the
liver, be accused of having the disease because of "wrong thinking"?
Or is it just the non-intelligent, reactive dynamis that is going
awry and getting lost?
I will agree that many of mankind's ills are brought on by somatized
reactions. But not all... In an epidemic disease like Cholera, is
"wrong thinking" to blame for all the deaths? Or is it just the
confused dynamis which has the person shit themselves to death in an
effort to heal?

JW

[Wendy Howard]

Julian wrote:

No cracks -- just some further clarification required I think.

"Wrong thinking" is perhaps an unhelpful way to see it. In essence what I'm
talking about is the mind/will acting against the fundamental direction of
the life force, which is identifiable in both your examples. Without wishing
to upset any animal-owners (and I'm one too), any domesticated animal's will
is to some extent subservient to, or constrained by, that of its owner,
rather than being exclusively devoted to the needs of its own fundamental
nature. This sets up the potential for an energetic state in which cancer is
a possible physical expression (ailments from long history of domination,
etc).

In the case of an epidemic disease like cholera, we're already dealing with
a population under stress -- poverty, unsanitary living conditions -- and
the disease frequently makes its appearance in the wake of a natural
disaster. The sort of circumstances where the over-riding feeling amongst
the population is one of utter hopelessness. Life was hard before, but now
everything is lost. In short, its complete shit. So the dynamis doesn't have
"the person shit themselves to death in an effort to heal". It simply
reflects the state they are in. Dynamis-language says "my life is shit, and
I'm losing everything I have". The dynamis doesn't "do" healing. A change in
state -- a realignment between the mind and the fundamental direction of the
life force -- is what does the healing. In the case of cholera, it's
anything which alters the energy of "my life is shit, and I'm losing
everything I have". Once that change in state occurs, the dynamis will
reflect it.

The dynamis-language is *present tense*, but the actual disaster, the loss,
may well be past. So in this instance, by remaining in the experience and
feeling of loss, the mind is acting against the fundamental direction of the
life force, which is life-affirming. While entirely understandable, the
mind's inability to let go of the experience continually re-creates it, and
consequently produces a physical reflection of it, possibly until life
itself is lost.

Regards
Wendy
http://www.smeddum.net/

[Julian Winston]

At 12:00 AM +0000 11/13/03, Wendy Howard wrote:

[snip]
I believe Hahnemann discussed this in his Organon intro. Essentially,
illness comes from domestication-- both in animals AND people.
THAT I cannot accept. I cannot believe that all those who died in the
cholera epidemic in Cincinnati in the early 1840's ( a very urban
city at the time) all felt that their "life is shit."
I cannot agree that such illness as the diphtheria epidemics and
typhoid epidemics (along with cholera) come about by peoples
dissatisfaction with life. The flu epidemic of 1918 came with such
suddenness and virulence that folks who were well in the morning were
dead by evening. To imply that the well-off, happy person from a good
middle-class background decided upon awakening that lovely morning
that their life was terrible and they might as well die of the flu in
the next four hours is NOT something I can ever accept.

In the model you propose, people who don't get well are at fault. If
they *really wanted* to get well, they would. Therefore, it is all
their fault that cure doesn't come.
I just can't lay that immense guilt trip on anyone.

As usual, we have a point of major disagreement here.

JW

[Eleana Needham]

Thank you for elucidating the point Julian!

Someone on the list posted a couple of days ago the story of a woman using
potentised blood, I think - apologies for any misquoting- and she had no end
of trouble because some patients developed hepatitis B... The way it was
presented it appeared it was the potentised remedies which caused the
problem??? However, how can the "statue of Napoleon" do such a thing?
Potentised remedies do not have the ability to "infect" patients!?!

A bit confused
Eleana

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[Wendy Howard]

Julian wrote:

Yes, this is where the problem always arises and it's very difficult to put
across this idea without people's emotions getting triggered by what they
see as implications of "blame" or "fault". The instinct that laying guilt
trips on people is not where it's at is spot on, but it's not this concept
that lays the guilt trip, it's the mind assuming greater responsibility in
the matter than is appropriate.

Laying guilt trips on people is NOT, repeat NOT, what this is about. (Though
I can't help but note that it's funny how we have no problem laying the
blame on a "faulty" dynamis!) What it is about is energy, and specifically
energy within the individual which is working against the fundamental
direction of the life force. There's nothing new in what I'm saying, but the
perspective I'm looking at it from leads to a different view of the dynamis
and its role from the one that leads to it being seen as something "faulty"
or "imperfect" or lacking any ability to reflect intelligence at work.

Try and take a step back and see this purely as different energies at work.
This is why I've written response-ability rather than responsibility. The
connotations and emotional associations are different. You can't lay blame
where awareness and understanding of what's going on isn't there -- if
there's no response-ability, then one cannot be held responsible! Our
conscious awareness is a very small part of our being; it's just the tip of
the iceberg really. However it tends to think it's all there is a lot of the
time, that it has far more control than it does, that it has greater
awareness than it does, and that it should somehow "know better" (which is
where the feeling of inappropriately-assigned responsibility erupts from).
And it tends to read things back to front a lot because it doesn't realise
that it's always seeing things in a mirror. So no blame. We're all learning.
Isn't that what it's all about?

In the case of the 'flu epidemics you mentioned, and other similarly
virulent large-scale acute diseases, then the picture is one of people being
overwhelmed by an energy *external* to themselves. Susceptibility (ie. the
existing energy state of the individual) still operates though -- Phos is a
big remedy in 'flu-type symptom expressions and the Phos energy pattern also
features a high degree, perhaps an *unhealthy* degree, of sensitivity to
external influences. So the dynamis-language in affected individuals says
"I'm being overwhelmed, suddenly and explosively". And so they are.

So it STILL doesn't detract from the validity of the observation that the
dynamis simply reflects the nature of the different energies existing in any
one individual at any one time, and that the nature of the symptoms
exhibited is a form of language.

In the case of cholera, it's being unable to hold onto anything of value --
it all turns to shit. That's the nature of the energy. That's why it appears
in situations where people *have* lost everything they considered of value.
So you can tinker around with the precise wording of the expression of it
and imply greater or lesser responsibility on the part of the affected
individual, which may or may not be appropriate, but the essence remains the
same. The dynamis articulates it perfectly.

Now, IF we can appreciate how this operates, then we can bring it into
awareness and *use* it. At present, we've grasped bits of it here and there,
but other bits are a bit back-to-front and inside-out, so our understanding
of the situation isn't quite focusing us on the exact spot although we're in
the general area and can hit the spot some of the time (though without
really knowing exactly how we did it).

Accepting that the dynamis is perfect and will always reflect the nature of
the energies present, means that it never lies, *never misunderstands the
situation*. Hahnemann's emphasis on the precise nature of the symptom
expressions and the simple language of the patient (which has a large
subconscious component), not to mention his railing against theorising, are
entirely consistent with this concept. Accepting that what the dynamis is
saying is an incontrovertible statement about the focus of the problem
(which will continue to be expressed until the problem is resolved) allows
us to *respond* to it. If we can respond, then we have response-ability.

Many of us feel instinctively and strongly that returning responsibility for
a patient's health to them, engaging their response-ability, is the road to
healing. It is. And I think this is why it is. Holding the idea of a faulty,
imperfect dynamis means that the mind is steered away from focusing on the
seat of the problem to forever trying to adjust the mirror. Generally this
simply distorts the reflection, although it can, in a roundabout way,
produce healing, because the seat of the problem is addressed indirectly.
For instance, in cases where the dynamis-language is all about lack of
self-nurture, adhering to a special diet indirectly satisfies the need for
self-nurture. Look at all the conditions that respond well to special diets,
and you'll see what I mean. It's not the diet that does it so much as
focusing on the individual's own needs, so the symptoms lessen for as long
as that focus is maintained. If the individual then takes self-nurture on
board generally, then "cure" may follow, even if they still believe that it
was the diet that "did it".

But all that's really happened is that the dynamis is reflecting a change in
state -- from one where lack of self-nurture was a significant component, to
one where it's not. The dynamis inhabits the eternal Now, because this is
the fundamental level of reality. It's only our awareness trailing its past
behind it that sees progressions in linear time and processes of "cure"
where something is "doing" the curing. "Cure" is just shifting the patterns
of energy being held by the individual. Get them to stop holding that energy
pattern somehow and you have your change in state. When you have your change
in state, the dynamis will reflect it.

Regards
Wendy
http://www.smeddum.net/

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Eleana,

I also thought it *sounded* like that was what she was saying, but I don't
think that can be the case. My guess is that it was caused by re-using
needles, with inadequate sterilization, for drawing the blood. Disposable
needles would be an easy way around that problem!

Shannon

on 11/13/03 3:12 AM, Eleana Needham at eleanan@hotmail.com wrote: