Child who spits

[Rhonda Bird]

I have a young 2yr old patient who usually responds well to Pulsatilla.
Just recently started throwing tantrums, and the parents describe it as
"throwing himself on the floor and licking it". Then seemed confused as to
whether he actually licks the floor, but there is an enormous amount of
saliva, and the tantrums come out of the blue. Mum mentioned he has started
spitting a lot - his food, at his sister, "he just spits, spits, spits". ;
Desires milk strongly; not good with sharing. His main complaint is
respiratory stuff. Screams daily (new). Throws food on floor. Does
anybody have another rubric that matches the licking the floor during
tantrum? Have looked at Belladonna and Mercurius, but don't seem to match
the totality. Never vaccinated. loves peanut butter(Puls)tomatoes, and
milk. Always asks for milk. What creatures spit a lot??

Thanks for any suggestions,
Rhonda

[Rosemary Hyde]

Hi, Rhonda.

I crossed these 4 rubrics in Radar, and the result was interesting:

MIND - SPITTING
MIND - SHRIEKING - children, in
GENERALS - FOOD and DRINKS - milk - desire
MOUTH - SALIVATION - profuse
Two remedies contain all four of these, Calc and Nux-v, and Nux-v has all four symptoms in Grade 2 or 3. I had also thought of Sanic, Tub, Lac-c, Verat, but only Calc and Nux-v have all 4 rubrics, for what it's worth. I'm not familiar with Nux-v in small children -- the child seems rather violent for that remedy. I'll do some research (for myself...)

Rosemary

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[E&M Wighton]

Snakes?

[Joy Lucas]

Dear Rhonda, may I ask what DOESN'T fit the picture of Mercury?

Can you also say precisely what happens before a tantrum, e.g. what brings
one on - possibly the parents do not wish to divulge this - is he
reprimanded before a tantrum? The tantrum needs describing more as it might
be a convulsion - is he tonic, clonic, grasping etc. You need precise
details here.

There is a rubric Salivation, profuse, with constant desire to spit (puls is
there) - how much Puls has he had.

Something must have happened to turn the corner into tantrums of this
nature, perhaps you need to delve into the case a bit more.

Other rx which come to mind are Calc; Veratrum; Lac can; Bryonia; Sulph but
I would have a look at Lyssin first. Has anyone in the family been bitten by
a dog?

Best wishes, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 8/28/03 11:59 AM, Rhonda Bird at rbirdhomeopath@powerup.com.au wrote:

I have a young 2yr old patient who usually responds well to Pulsatilla.
Just recently started throwing tantrums, and the parents describe it as
"throwing himself on the floor and licking it". Then seemed confused as to
whether he actually licks the floor, but there is an enormous amount of
saliva, and the tantrums come out of the blue. Mum mentioned he has started
spitting a lot - his food, at his sister, "he just spits, spits, spits". ;
Desires milk strongly; not good with sharing. His main complaint is
respiratory stuff. Screams daily (new). Throws food on floor. Does
anybody have another rubric that matches the licking the floor during
tantrum? Have looked at Belladonna and Mercurius, but don't seem to match
the totality. Never vaccinated. loves peanut butter(Puls)tomatoes, and
milk. Always asks for milk. What creatures spit a lot??

Thanks for any suggestions,
Rhonda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[V.T. Yekkirala]

Hi,
Seems like lyss.
with best wishes,
V.T.Yekkirala
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

[Shannon Nelson]

Also, has anything changed in his life or routine in the past few weeks or
months? Anything that might have stressed him, that could explain the
change?

Also, for curiosity, what was he getting the Puls for, what kind of kid was
he before -- both before Puls and before the tantrums started? And if you
recall, when he's had the Puls, what potency and how far in between? I ask
this because of one situation long ago with my daughter, where she was (it
turned out) being palliated by a "sorta close" remedy, but each time she
relapsed it would be farther and deeper (tho she was fine in between), until
the relapse picture finally clarified to show the remedy actually needed --
which once we finally got there, worked far better than the prior
palliatives had, and stopped the relapsing.

Shannon
on 8/28/03 3:09 AM, Joy Lucas at joy.lucas@ntlworld.com wrote:

[Shannon Nelson]

Just a possibly interesting PS in light of VTY's and Joy's remarks -- the
reemdy that finally worked (marvellously!) for my daughter (and her *major*
tantrums!!!) was Lyssin (and she needed only that one dose), and the prior
palliatives had included Puls, for clingy, weepy disposition -- in between
rages -- and tons of respiratory stuff.

Shannon

on 8/28/03 10:36 AM, Bob&Shannon at shannonnelson@tds.net wrote:

[Rhonda Bird]

Thankyou for the suggestions on Lyssin. Mum didn't mention any child,
especially this one, who had been bitten by a dog. I saw this child once
before, in March of this year when he was given Pulsatilla 30c. The case
summary : Born April 2001 in Belgium.
Perforated left ear drum, treated homeopathically while the family was on
vacation July 2002. Both her sons had perforated ear drums while on
vacation, and she was pretty stressed. Mum used homeopathy in labour to
help him descend down the birth canal (didn't quicken). He was late
walking, late teething and an early talker. Had his first cold at just a
few weks old. Suffered awful coughs and colds while family lived in Belgium
(now living in Australia). All his respiratory complaints have been < at
nite. He is a chubby boy, with very thick hair. When he's feeling unwell,
it's < nite, his back arches at night, not easily comforted. Mum gave him
Chamomilla 30 before bringing him to me in March, which seemed to calm his
moods she says. Regarding his moods, he can seem really happy, then will
end up face down on the floor, not wanting to be consoled. At times, he
won't calm down at all, but will if distracted by something/body. Has a
tendency to loose bowels. Bowels move after eating 3 times a day. Loves
peanut butter, likes milk but can't tolerate it so well, loves tomato, pasta
and cucumber. Not vaccinated. Dad has a condition called Leber's Optic
Neuropathy. He was treated by a homeopathic GP in Belgium, who wanted the
perforated ear drum to run its course (only said to worry if blood was
coming out of ear, which it didn't). Lots of green pus discharged from ear.
GP used to give him Phosphorous for everything, saying it was "his
constitutional". Is very cuddly, confident - unafraid to try new things.
Restless sleep, would wake most nites, until given Chamomilla. Prefers very
dark room to sleep. Good with mixing with other kids, and ok playing alone.
Poos really changeable in a day, sometimes pebbles, and other times watery
which burn. Nappy rash on buttocks, which mum thinks is from milk. A real
daddy's boy. Grumpy in the afternoon. Doesn't appear to feel the cold. I
prescribed Pulsatilla 30.

He hasn't had any other remedies since then, and I saw him again last week.
Here's the update:

After Pulsatilla, he vomited after drinking milk, and again vomited 2 days
later after drinking milk. He still desires milk. He's had a long-term
cough through our Winter, not accompanied with any fevers. As I posted
yesterday, he over-reacts to things, is quite sensitive. Now not good with
sharing, responding with screams. Has started biting. Mum thinks he mimics
his 3 year sister, who am also treating for violent behaviour. Now can
happily skip meals. Throws food or his plate on the floor. Loves sweets.
Always asks to drink milk. Stools lately are firmer and alternating with
runny motions. Can go sev eral days without a bowel motion. Has had nappy
rash the past week. Food cravings are still the same. Has a cold, with
yellow mucous. Sleep - hard to get to sleep. He always wants water to
drink at nite, or if he wakes up. Wakes happy or very up and throws
tantrum. Mum has dosed all the children with herbal Echinacea over Winter.
Screaming in sleep. Regarding the tantrums, I witnessed one when there
last week to home-visit. It was around 5 p.m. and air getting quite cool.
Dad had been nursing him, and said very calmly to him, "Let's go inside now
and read a story". He got up happily, and dad was walking ahead of him to
the door. The next thing, he simply got down on the floor, face down and
started screaming and crying. His mouth was very low to the floor, but I
can't say from where I sat it looked particularly he was licking the floor.
Dad left him there long enough for me to observe what they had just finished
describing, and he cried for a while longer, then got up and went inside the
house. Perhaps I wouldn't recognise a convulsion - Joy, can you give more
details as to what I might expect here?

tantrum throwing is he is mimicking his older sister. He is spitting a lot,
hence my post yesterday.
I may need to add at a later post why I didn't think Mercurius fitted, as
I'm not out of time. Regards, Rhonda

[Joy Lucas]

Dear Rhonda, the extra information you write makes me think even more about
Merc. But there is a group of remedies to also consider - lyssin, tub, calc
carb, (possibly cuprum, veratrum and lac can).

If there really is 'nothing' that is triggering these tantrums then you have
to be wary about calling them tantrums - which is why I suggested a
convulsion of some kind - a convulsion can range from what appears to be a
mere flickering of the eyes to a full blown ranting and raging episode. A
tantrum, imo, always has some kind of manipulation attached to it. Is this
the case?

Is there a connection between the ear infection, burst ear drum and possible
mental and emotional condition - maybe there is some developmental
problems?? Have the ear sx been resolved? Late learning to walk - calc, merc
etc.

Could you observe any fear as the dad walked in front of the child, away
from him - can you deduce what you think the child was experiencing. When he
throws something, is there anger or just impulse, same with the biting and
spitting. It isn't unusual for children of this age to throw their food on
the floor, nor to crave sweets (especially if being given them freely), so
how important are these sx. You say he is cuddly, confident and will share -
is this an alternating state with the rest of his behaviour or more his
healthy state showing through? He likes cucumbers (phos, veratrum etc) but
is this a craving or not, can you actually use this sx in the case? Were
there any birth or pregnancy difficulties or unusual events - you hinted
that his mum had some problems with delivery.

You have some rich and definite sx in this case but it lacks a starting
point, if you know what I mean, a sort of understanding of where the case
really begins and why.

My advice would be to study this group of remedies and maybe ask or look for
some confirming sx to help your choice. I think grading the sx will also
help. If you are treating his sister, what have you found for her - they
might well be the same.

Hope this has helped and not hindered

Best wishes, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 8/29/03 9:47 AM, Rhonda Bird at rbirdhomeopath@powerup.com.au wrote:

Thankyou for the suggestions on Lyssin. Mum didn't mention any child,
especially this one, who had been bitten by a dog. I saw this child once
before, in March of this year when he was given Pulsatilla 30c. The case
summary : Born April 2001 in Belgium.
Perforated left ear drum, treated homeopathically while the family was on
vacation July 2002. Both her sons had perforated ear drums while on
vacation, and she was pretty stressed. Mum used homeopathy in labour to
help him descend down the birth canal (didn't quicken). He was late
walking, late teething and an early talker. Had his first cold at just a
few weks old. Suffered awful coughs and colds while family lived in Belgium
(now living in Australia). All his respiratory complaints have been < at
nite. He is a chubby boy, with very thick hair. When he's feeling unwell,
it's < nite, his back arches at night, not easily comforted. Mum gave him
Chamomilla 30 before bringing him to me in March, which seemed to calm his
moods she says. Regarding his moods, he can seem really happy, then will
end up face down on the floor, not wanting to be consoled. At times, he
won't calm down at all, but will if distracted by something/body. Has a
tendency to loose bowels. Bowels move after eating 3 times a day. Loves
peanut butter, likes milk but can't tolerate it so well, loves tomato, pasta
and cucumber. Not vaccinated. Dad has a condition called Leber's Optic
Neuropathy. He was treated by a homeopathic GP in Belgium, who wanted the
perforated ear drum to run its course (only said to worry if blood was
coming out of ear, which it didn't). Lots of green pus discharged from ear.
GP used to give him Phosphorous for everything, saying it was "his
constitutional". Is very cuddly, confident - unafraid to try new things.
Restless sleep, would wake most nites, until given Chamomilla. Prefers very
dark room to sleep. Good with mixing with other kids, and ok playing alone.
Poos really changeable in a day, sometimes pebbles, and other times watery
which burn. Nappy rash on buttocks, which mum thinks is from milk. A real
daddy's boy. Grumpy in the afternoon. Doesn't appear to feel the cold. I
prescribed Pulsatilla 30.

He hasn't had any other remedies since then, and I saw him again last week.
Here's the update:

After Pulsatilla, he vomited after drinking milk, and again vomited 2 days
later after drinking milk. He still desires milk. He's had a long-term
cough through our Winter, not accompanied with any fevers. As I posted
yesterday, he over-reacts to things, is quite sensitive. Now not good with
sharing, responding with screams. Has started biting. Mum thinks he mimics
his 3 year sister, who am also treating for violent behaviour. Now can
happily skip meals. Throws food or his plate on the floor. Loves sweets.
Always asks to drink milk. Stools lately are firmer and alternating with
runny motions. Can go sev eral days without a bowel motion. Has had nappy
rash the past week. Food cravings are still the same. Has a cold, with
yellow mucous. Sleep - hard to get to sleep. He always wants water to
drink at nite, or if he wakes up. Wakes happy or very up and throws
tantrum. Mum has dosed all the children with herbal Echinacea over Winter.
Screaming in sleep. Regarding the tantrums, I witnessed one when there
last week to home-visit. It was around 5 p.m. and air getting quite cool.
Dad had been nursing him, and said very calmly to him, "Let's go inside now
and read a story". He got up happily, and dad was walking ahead of him to
the door. The next thing, he simply got down on the floor, face down and
started screaming and crying. His mouth was very low to the floor, but I
can't say from where I sat it looked particularly he was licking the floor.
Dad left him there long enough for me to observe what they had just finished
describing, and he cried for a while longer, then got up and went inside the
house. Perhaps I wouldn't recognise a convulsion - Joy, can you give more
details as to what I might expect here?

tantrum throwing is he is mimicking his older sister. He is spitting a lot,
hence my post yesterday.
I may need to add at a later post why I didn't think Mercurius fitted, as
I'm not out of time. Regards, Rhonda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Patricia Hatherly]

Dear Rhonda

The biting, restlessness & generally "bolshie" behaviour and desire for
milk is suggestive of Tub (Puls is a good Tubercular Rx)

There is a lot of gut stuff happening which could also be Puls as
changeability is a keynote.
However, I have found Morgan Pure to be an excellent Rx for nappy rash and
it is the bowel nosode which covers Tub as well.
I think it is worth a look.

regards
Patricia Hatherly