Heilkunst

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

Greetings

1- Those who know me, know that I do NOT bad mouth.
This can been shown with my record of exchanges on Minutus.

2- Re Slander
If this Heilkunst school is properly accredited and if its teachers have
Never Ever prescribed "NSOL", or if they have they can show me where Hn has
authorised such a prescription, then I will take everything back.

3- Reality
But what I absolutely hate is the blind leading the blind into absolute
darkness.
I may be a dreamer, but I regard Homoeopathy as the ONE hope mankind has of
achieving "the higher purposes for which it was created". Anyone messes with
that dream by adulterating homoeopathy and they will get the full force of
my wrath expressed in unmistakeable terms!

Rgds
Soroush

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 12:23:34 +1200
From: "Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD."
Subject: RE: Heilkunst

You know, all this talk about Heilkunst amounts to at least badmouthing, if
not slander.

I guess you have gone to their website, or did you? If you did and went
through their teaching program, you would realise that at least the first 2
years of courses do cover exactly the same things than any other homeopathic
course: history, philosophy, MM, repertorisation, etc,.... with the added
bonus that most if not all of the schools of thought in the homeopathic
arena are represented.
Only when you have gone through this basic knowledge are you introduced to
the specific way of treatment that the Heilkunst school promotes. You might
agree or disagree with their way of thinking, but at least they explain
clearly where they take their ideas from, what is their logic, why and how,
in a little bit more detail than most of the courses I have seem, where the
major explanation is "Hahnemann (or Vithoulkas, or Sankaran, or whoever is
in the top ten this week) said so, so this is the way it should be".

Their way of practice stems from an in depth reading and interpretation of
Hahnemann and all the Classical authors. As I said, not everybody agrees,
and within the school itself there is a lot of discussions, arguments and
research going on, it is not a static, frozen and immovable situation.
Moreover, practitioners share their experiences and the "techniques" are
reassessed in the light of those experiences. And so on..............

Also "bits of information" is no way to comment on a school that has student
and graduates all over the world, and clinical results to prove the
efficiency of what they are doing.
It might not be kosher for you, but that is only from your point of view.

And yes, I studied with them as well as with many other schools, I have my
own personal interpretation and way of practicing Heilkunst that diverges
from their mainstream, no I am not on their board or on the
payroll.............just pissed off at mudslinging.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Dr. Waqar Taji in]

dear soroush,
you are absolutely right.
regards,
waqar

[George Kaplan]

Dear Dr Rozencwajg and other Group Members,

I was unaware that this was such a contentious issue when I asked about the
heilkunst school. I would not have knowingly opened such a can of worms, and
am sorry to have instigated a clash of words on this group. However, I must
say that I do not think anything said has amounted to "badmouthing" and
certainly nothing slanderous has been said. Whatever good things one might
say about this school, as I previously mentioned I have been privately
contacted by several people, whose names and stories I will obviously not
divulge, who have alleged that they were negatively affected by the system
of practice in question. If this information is fact, it casts doubts over
the system. One person told me that the school uses extremely high potencies
of remedies, chosen very routinely based on very little case-taking. Another
person has told me that the (French? Swiss?) doctor on whose work much of
the system is based was heavily reliant on pendulum dowsing. I am not sure
that homeopathic medicine should base itself upon such subjective methods.
(Unless I am wrong, I do not believe that Hahnemann was interested in
dowsing.) I have also been told that it is routinely accepted within this
system that patients must undergo a lengthy and arduous "healing reaction"
which places great stress and pain upon them mentally as well as physically
and can last up to several years! (This sounds to me more like torture than
homeopathy). In addition, I am told that every student of this system MUST
go through this period of pain and stress. If nothing else I have been told
about the school is true, this alone puts me off recommending it to my niece
as I am very fond of her! :- )

Please note that I am not making slanderous comments against any individual
person, and am only relating what I have been told.

George A. Kaplan
_________________________________________________________________
Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

Yes, and that is "hearsay"..........

I can also tell you that they have an enormous amount of success and are
treating people who have had horrendous aggravations and mishandling by
so-called classical homeopaths.
Don't we all have that in our practices?
Don't we all inherit patients from other practitioners, hear about the
treatment and wonder if those guys did find their certification and diplomas
in a box of cereals, next to a plastic toy? Of course we do, and we know
very well that others teat our failures too, and I for one am grateful for
that.

I am not trying to persuade anyone that the Heilkunst way of practicing is
correct or not, that is for each of us to find out if we want to.
What makes me snap is that from all the variations in homeopathy, they have
been the target of attacks since the start; and honestly, that is what
pushed me into studying with them, long after having gone through classical
and non-classical training. I learned a lot. I do my own interpretation of
everything I have learned. And when it comes to criticise, at least I know
what I am talking about.

That is all I wanted to say.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

1. Agree, this was not directed at anyone personally but at the general
"bashing" at that school.

2. Accredited by whom? NSOL is a creation of this school, yes, with specific
indications and reasons (right or wrong) to be given; if someone is really
interested to find out, the best way to do it is to contact the school and
ask.
Where has Hahnemann authorised to address the "central delusion" as does
Sankaran, or to use the table of elements as does Scholten, or any other
variation that has been introduced, rightly or wrongly, in the practice of
homeopathy. Why single out one school? Follow Herring's example: study
first, even in the intention to denigrate and destroy, understand and expand
later.

3. I agree with your vision of homeopathy, but who do you call a blind? As
long as you have not tried yourself to understand what they do, you have no
right to criticise on hearsay!
And that goes for anyone about any type of teaching! How many times have I
heard ridicule poured over Scholten by people who never listened to him or
even read his books! What about Sehgal? What about Ramakrishnan? What about
"put your favourite teacher her"?
Critic is easy, art is difficult............

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".

[merrilee_jo]

As a student of Homoeopathy with the British Institute I can only
say that what attracted me to them was the openminded approach
combined with a zeal to teach the thought pattern behind
Homoeopathy. I have not been disapointed! And in terms of currency
you may find the price differnces between American and Canadian is
your deciding factor ( but maybe not for long?:)) Get the
prospectus from as many schools as you can and make a comparrison, a
book list for the first and second years also gives a good guide of
what exactly is covered by each course, and the expectations.
Good luck and may your niece soon be a minutus member too.
Merrilee

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Rosemary Hyde"
wrote:
choose. The
dealing
others are
and
and hated
compatible with
again, you
British
due
the
allegedly
accreditors and
evidence
(allegedly...)!
Homoeopathy and
regarding
document read
and/or
their use
its
incidental,
with the
digest.
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Eleana Needham]

Dear List Members

May I add my own disquiet at this "mudslinging". It only shows prejudice
when we go to great pains at being "the unprejudiced observer" - what
happened to that great Hahnemannean premise???

Moreover, no representative of this college was invited on the list to
extrapolate on their teachings, philosophy, etc., we only saw some "heresay"
which only amounts to slander if taken just that bit further...

Eleana

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

Dear Colleagues

I would like to remind colleagues of Aph 2 & 3 of Organon (6th Ed)

In 2 Hn states that restoration of health should be done in the shortest;
most reliable; most harmless and ON EASILY COMPREHENSIBLE PRINCIPLES

In 3, as requirement for being a "True Practitioner of the Healing Art"
One has to
perceive the disease to be cured
perceive the curative nature of the medicine
Understand dosage
Understand when to repeat
and Know how to remove obstacles to cure.

I would expect all teachers of homoeopathy and all schools of homoeopathy to
give an excellent understanding of these points to their students. Please
do not forget that Hn spends the rest of the Organon describing what he
means by these very early aphorisms.

It was along these lines that I asked on what principle is NSOL (unproved
??) being prescribed?
(and what happened to the perception of what is curative in NSOL if it has
not been proved.)

As far as accreditation is concerned, perhaps those of you who have more
info on this college would be kind enough to advise the rest of us as which
centrally recognised organisation has accredited this particular school.

My dear colleague Dr Rozencwajg has asked "Where has Hahnemann authorised to
address the "central delusion" as does Sankaran, or to use the table of
elements as does Scholten, or any other variation that has been introduced,
rightly or wrongly, in the practice of homeopathy.

In answer to this question I would say that what Sankaran is doing is trying
to perceive the disease to be cured and Scholten (whether you agree with his
theories or not) is trying to perceive the curative nature of the medicines.

I am told that a lot of good people are doing their best in all of these
different schools.
I would say that a lot of people who are in Homoeopathy are in it for the
good of mankind. Some are there to line their pockets. I would not say that
people are going out of their way to mislead the others - but sadly they do
unless they are very careful, and when they re-tract they never do it
publicly - they just stop saying/doing the things they were saying/doing
before.

Also they may be good and they may have honourable intensions, but if they
have lost SIGHT of the foundations of homoeopathy (as expressed so clearly
in the first aphorisms of the Organon) then they might as well be blind.

Kindest regards
Soroush
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 10:56:57 +1200
From: "Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD."
Subject: RE: Heilkunst

1. Agree, this was not directed at anyone personally but at the general
"bashing" at that school.

2. Accredited by whom? NSOL is a creation of this school, yes, with specific
indications and reasons (right or wrong) to be given; if someone is really
interested to find out, the best way to do it is to contact the school and
ask.
Where has Hahnemann authorised to address the "central delusion" as does
Sankaran, or to use the table of elements as does Scholten, or any other
variation that has been introduced, rightly or wrongly, in the practice of
homeopathy. Why single out one school? Follow Herring's example: study
first, even in the intention to denigrate and destroy, understand and expand
later.

3. I agree with your vision of homeopathy, but who do you call a blind? As
long as you have not tried yourself to understand what they do, you have no
right to criticise on hearsay!
And that goes for anyone about any type of teaching! How many times have I
heard ridicule poured over Scholten by people who never listened to him or
even read his books! What about Sehgal? What about Ramakrishnan? What about
"put your favourite teacher her"?
Critic is easy, art is difficult............

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

Simple answer: send your questions to the Heilkunst school and you will get
answers by their teachers.

OK???????

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".