Guess the successful Rx

[Rochelle Marsden]

Thought for a change that I would post a good result to a remedy instead of asking for help!! I will give my analysis of the case, the Rx I gave and the follow up after I feel that everyone has had a chance to have a go. This isn't a long case history because I was playing with the child a lot.

Regards
Rochelle
9th April 2003

Background- This 20-month old girl 13-8-01, has come to me after I have treated her elder sister and mother. She presented as a very friendly child who was quite happy being left with me while her mother went out to sort her car out with the AA. She played happily and during the consultation flitted from one thing to another. She wasn't particularly interested in the toys but preferred to touch everything ion the room. I found her gregarious and inquisitive. She is physically active and must be a handful. While she was with me she had a temper tantrum and Mum said that I had seen the full spectrum of her behaviour. If was difficult to pacify her.
Presenting complaints - a recently developed fear of cats and dogs, chronic mucousy coughing with a wheeze and croup. Noisy nighttime breathing and coughing until she regurgitates. Nighttime waking 1 a.m.
She has a constant runny nose.
She was born in August and in January was hospitalized and given salbutamol inhaler. Again she was hospitalised the following August with respiratory difficulties although it was diagnosed as a urinary infection. Mum has seen no evidence of this. During croup attacks Mum has given Spongia successfully. She also had chicken pox this January.
She is very sparkly and friendly. The problem with the fear of cats and dogs started when a dog ate off her plate. Even the bark of a dog can upset her.
She sings and dances but can only say a few words. She is not interested in furry toys and doesn't like messy fingers sometimes although at other times she doesn't mind being messy.
At 6 weeks old she used to go rigid, would splutter and cough and then come round.
When she was hospitilised in August there was building work taking place in the house. At 9 p.m. on a Friday night it sounded like she was choking on her saliva - a possible fit and a week later she did it again.
She is determined.
She often coughs until she throws up.
She gulps drinks.
Sleep - wakes at 12.30 -1 a.m. and then sleeps soundly until 7 am.
She has never been vaccinated and was breast-fed until 12 months. The pregnancy was fine. At birth she weighed 7.15 and it was a home birth. At first there was difficulty in her latching on.
Food - desires smoked salmon and had a temper tantrum when Mum wouldn't give her any more. She likes broccoli, fruit and prefers salt. She dislikes coucous and rice. Desires cold milk.
Family Medical History

Allergies, wheezing, asthma and eczema.
www.rochellemarsden.co.uk

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[andyh]

Dear Rochelle,
I'll say tuberculinum is the underlying remedy based on your expertly elicited symptoms:

-desires smoked salmon (in a 20-month old)
-fear cats and dogs
-precocious, wants wide experience (touches all toys)
-peevish/tantrums in a case with asthmatic breathing
-aversion furry
*However, the croupous coughing episodes with *vomiting* correspond to KALI-C when one considers the *1 AM waking*.

==========
SLEEP; WAKING; midnight; after; one am. (K1255, SRIII-191, G1036) (28) : ant-t., ap-g., bor., caul., cocc., ephe., haliae-lc., KALI-C., kali-n., mag-c., mang., merc., merc-s., nat-c., nat-m., nit-ac., nux-v., ph-ac., phos., quas., rat., rumx., sep., spig., squil., stann., stront-c., ter.

STOMACH; VOMITING; general; coughing; on (K532, G453) (100) : acon., adam., agar., ALUM., alum-p., ambr., anac., ANT-T, arg-n., arn., ars., ars-i., ars-s-f., bac., bell., BRY, bufo, calc., calc-i., calc-sil., cann-s., caps., carb-an., carb-v., carbn-s., cham., chin., chin-ar., cimx., coc-c., con., cor-r., croc., cupr., cur., daph., dig., DROS., elaps, ferr., ferr-ar., ferr-i., ferr-p., form., gels., HEP., hyos., indg., iod., ip., irid., kali-ar., kali-bi., KALI-C., kali-p., kali-s., kali-sil., kreos., lach., laur., lob., mangi., meph., merc., merc-c., mez., mill., myos., nat-ar., nat-c., nat-m., nat-p., nat-sil., nit-ac., nux-v., ph-ac., phos.,
phyt., pitu-a., plb., puls., puls-n., rhod., rhus-t., sabad., sang., sarr., seneg., sep., sil., stann., sul-ac., sul-i., sulph., syc-co., syph., tarent., thuj., verat., zinc.

VERMUELEN (KALI-C)
...Spasmodic, with gagging or vomiting of ingesta and sour phlegm...
===========
*The coryza with periodic attacks of rigidity with hacking croupy cough *may* correspond to ALL-C, *if the coryza matches.
==========
All-c (Hering)
Rigidity of spinal column in periodic attacks, accompanied by pain through whole chest.
Laryngeal cough, frequently repeated. * Coryza.
Spasmodic cough simulating croup.
==========
*Sambucus is also a possibility for the acute cough exacerbation, but only if the asthmatic cough is agg *and is what wakes her* about midnight or 12:30
+++++++++
Suggested plan:
I'll say Tuberculinum LM1 once and then periodically as deemed an appropriate frequency of dose based on response. Carry on with typical long term treatment with the LM Tuberculinum. One could also use 6C or other low potency plussed and move up progressively. Higher C potency is a possibility (and would be the traditional kentian approach) however, LM or low potency periodic would be my choice. One could begin with a 30C one dose and wait, and go higher later. The low potency is preferred in the beginning because:

-- would be careful about provoking agg. because of the tendency to clog up and vomit with the croupy cough.
--leave open the possibility of using an acute remedy when/if there is an exacerbation of the croupy cough with vomiting, which could be dangerous. This acute treatment can be done without a problem if giving periodic low C (plussed) or LM Tuberculinum.
could also be given to Parents with instructions:
For the acute episodes of cough with vomiting and waking at 1 AM, Kali-c 30C only if it really becomes troublesome in the beginning of treatment with Tub. If the attacks of rigidity come on with concern, would consider All-c 30 if corresponding croupy cough and coryza. However, Tuberculinum appears to be the characteristic remedy which underlies everything, and the acute or subacute remedies should only be used if and as *really* necessary because of breathing, choking, or vomiting problems and not higher than 30C. The Tub will probably bring her out of the inveterate respiratory difficulties over a relatively short period of time, and other
remedies not needed ever or after that.

Nicely taken and written-up case. Look forward to hear what you actually did.

Best to you,
Andy
Case of Tuberculinum pulled off referenceworks:

CASE III - Dorothy R, age 6, dark hair and eyes. Mother died of pulmonary consumption before she was six months old.
Has always taken cold easily; could not tell how or where.
Profuse perspiration when she sleeps, especially of head, neck and shoulders.
Each cold begins with sneezing and coryza and ends with croup or croupy cough.
She no sooner gets rid of one cold before another begins; is housed up all winter.
Hepar, Kali bi., and other remedies would modify cough and shorten the attacks, but would not prevent a return.
Tuberculinum m and cm, a dose every two weeks in summer, so improved the patient that she had but two or three colds the following winter, and the repetition of the remedy at intervals of one or two months has effected a cure. Not a cold or cough last winter; can go anywhere or do anything that any healthy child ought to do.

============================================================
Rochelle Marsden wrote:

[Jon van Hoffen]

Hello Rochelle,

Thanks for the case you put up. After Andy, with his usual thoroughness,
there is probably not too much to add.
My first thought was Tub., and further it reminded me a lot of a young boy I
treated successfully with Nat mur. I know it is not the traditional picture
of Nat mur, but in kids I think it can present like this.
Nat mur also has the issue about the difficulty swallowing and as kids I
think they can be very friendly and still quite open (as long as you stay
friendly too).

Kind regards,
Jon van Hoffen

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Jon,

I'm always eager to hear "non-traditional" presentations of familiar
remedies, and if a nat-m can look like Tub, I want to know more!!! Do you
suppose you could put up more about that case and/or how you recognized
nat-m?

Thanks!
Shannon

on 5/19/03 2:50 AM, Jon van Hoffen at seamagic@tpg.com.au wrote:

[Rochelle Marsden]

OK at this point I have to say that everyone who contacted me online + Jon came up with the same rx which I prescribed which shows that sometimes we homeopaths can agree!! Here is my analysis + the first follow up . I will leave what happened this week to another post when I see Mum this week. Basically she did a bit of self prescribing and I wish these middle class Mums with there 32 Rx Helios kit of 30C potencies would leave acutes to me, if they really do need treating that is!!!

Analysis

I didn't take many notes as I was watching and playing with this child. I would like to get rid of the mucous. There is definitely an over production here.
At first I started thinking of Arsenicum and then changed my mind. This child was sooo friendly and didn't seem to be scared of anything except the cats and dogs. There was causation for this.
I thought of Phos. Because of her friendliness but I don't think that there are enough fears here.
Finally I decided on Tub because of the constant restlessness and the change of mood suddenly with the restlessness. Tub also has the desire cold milk. I personally think that this child would be better off without cold milk because of all the mucous. The constant wheezing and cough worry me a little but are all covered by the Tub. I will see what to do after this remedy, as the picture may become clearer. I have a seen a lot of improvements with kids with catarrhal coughs with Tub.
Prescription

Tub. 30
Follow Up 1

14th May 2003
Less mucous. Her nose seems to have dried up. The wheeze has gone. She is still snoring but it doesn't sound throaty. And she doesn't sound chesty now.
She can get ratty and is loud and roars but is a lot better than she was.
She was great on holiday. Only once did she cough until she regurgitated.
She was still restless - looking around for different things to do.
Food - likes sausages.
She still wakes at 1 am and is brought into the parental bed. Mum is not bothered as she says the other child grew out of it.
Sleeps on her stomach with her legs curled up. Is still grinding her teeth. I was unaware of this before.
Eventually I asked about the fear of cats and dogs since Mum hadn't even mentioned it!!! She is not as paralysed with fear now. Sometimes when she sees them she is a bit wary and other times she is too keen to play with them.
Mum says that there has been a dramatic change in her.
She is saying more words says Mum, not that I noticed!!
Analysis

A good result. I will leave the remedy acting and will see the child again in 3 months. It is interesting that symptoms have been revealed today that are in the remedy.
Prescription

None
www.rochellemarsden.co.uk

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[Cl.Mennel]

Deat Rochelle,

what made me think of Tub. in addition to what you have said is the
following:
Tub is intelligent, and can be quite unpredictable. Tub. has got a
tendency to manipulate people.
Tub has got a very strange relationship to animals. Fear of animals
three point rubric in Murphy, fear of cat and fear of dogs are two point
rubrics.
That is very typical, Tub likes very much smoked food. Here it is smoked
salmon, it could be also smoked bacon, salami, or other smoked sausages,
sometimes a love for pizza can be counted to this rubric as well.
Tub also loves both salt and sugar, Tub are the one who eat sweet and
salty together in one serving, e.g. salty sausages with marmelade,
cheese with jam.

yours faithfully,
Claudia

quotes taken from:
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 17:39:34 +0100
From: "Rochelle Marsden"
Subject: Guess the successful Rx

[Rochelle Marsden]

Thanks Claudia. I think the Tub will probably be repeated this week after Mum's self prescribing!!
Regards
Rochelle
--------------------------------
Claudia wrote:-

Deat Rochelle,

what made me think of Tub. in addition to what you have said is the
following:

www.rochellemarsden.co.uk

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[Jon van Hoffen]

Dear Shannon,

In order to describe the case I mentioned, and my choice of Nat-mur as the
prescription, in a broader light I guess I have to tell a bit more about
myself first.
I have only recently (February this year) started practising homoeopathy, in
Coffs Harbour, which is a small coastal town in Australia. I studied at a
small college. My teacher tended to concentrate mainly on the mental
symptoms and used mainly high C potencies. In the student clinic I learned
to treat the same way.
I joined the Minutus and Lightforce mailing lists over a year ago, and
noticed a wealth of different opinions and methods out there. For my final
thesis I studied the LM potencies and the issue of potency selection. While
doing that research I found a fairly wide divergence in potencies used.
Because of all this I decided to try some different approaches and different
potencies when the 'right' cases present themselves.
The case where I prescribed the Nat-mur was one of these cases where I did
not treat in my usual way.

This was the case of a 4 y.o. boy (he is the son of a friend of my wife, so
I had seen him around the place). Main complaint chronic runny nose, with
sore throat and sore eyes.
The mother was not very forthcoming with information. The boy seemed to be
quite happy, was running around my clinic, playing with all the toys, but
not staying long with any of them, running up to his mum regularly and jump
on her lap for a hug or a cuddle. He was friendly and smiley but did not
answer my questions to him (even though he knew me a bit).
According to his mum he was bright, anxious, obstinate and easily excitable.
Likes to be cuddled and reassured.
He catches colds easily, < cold weather, smoke (in the bushfire season),
autumn, spring, change in temperature/weather. He is a hot person and does
not feel the cold, walks around in the paddock without shoes, kicks blankets
of at night.
Likes sweet things, corn, sugar, soups, raw carrots, potatoes, meat and not:
green veggies, cooked veggies.
Fears: dogs, animals in general, separation from his mum.
He wakes up around 12.30 coughing with runny eyes and pain in mouth. When he
wakes he is cranky and irritable and takes 20 minutes to settle. One of his
parents has to lie in bed with him. This has been going on for over a month
now.
The discharge from his nose is clear, not runny and looks like it has little
bubbles in it. He sniffles it up and it than irritates his throat.
He also complains of pain in the head (not specified where or what sort of
pain).
He has no appetite (normally eats well)

I decided that with the lack of information on the mind symptoms (even
though the ones I had pointed strongly to Tub.) I could try to treat this
mainly on the physical picture, and to give him Nat-m on that basis. The
symptoms of the cold seemed to fit the Nat-mur picture quite well: Started
with sneezing, running eyes with the cough, postnasal catarrh, clear
discharge (although minimal running out, he was sniffling all the time),
cough after midnight, interrupted sleep after midnight, and the allergic
condition. I can't really remember why I decided to go ahead with the Nat-m
even though a few of the mind symptoms contra-indicated this remedy. Maybe
it was the fact that the mother struck me as a very typical Nat-mur too, and
there are a lot of similarities between mother and son. Anyway, I prescribed
a 12c, and it worked very well. There was a copious clear discharge from the
nose for a little while, one more night that he woke up, and the cold
disappeared after that, and has not returned since.

This is the one of two cases I treated mainly on physical symptoms, and I am
still amazed about how well it worked. This just adds to the impression that
sometimes there might be more than just the one way to treat a case.
The other case where I chose the remedy mainly on the physical picture was
for a 17 y.o. girl with recurrent Cystitis. I gave her a Lyc 12c, but only
after what I read about the female Lyc in Vermeulen's Prisma, which seemed
to fit quite nicely as well. This case has responded very well as well. A
short and mild flare up of the cystitis and no symptoms since! That case was
a bit different though, because the whole case fitted the remedy better.

I must say that I really appreciate the effort of people putting information
up on these email lists. I have learned an awful lot since I joined them,
even if I not always join the points of view put forward, it is always
interesting to learn of different ways to look at issues.
It is sad to see that some people are being put off by the (perceived)
rudeness of some people in the discussions now and then. The written word is
sometimes very unforgiving, and the fact that English is not the native
language of many of the participants does not help either. It can be very
easy to hurt people. It also does not help to create a situation where
participants can't put their opinion forward without the fear of being
crushed immediately by some heavy handed responses. I am sure there are more
people out there that would be willing to share their knowledge or opinion
if reactions could be a bit more forgiving. The fact that people tend to get
private responses to questions posed on the list also seems to point to the
fact people are afraid to put their opinion forward in the public arena.
Hoping for a more 'open' discussion,

with kind regards,

Jon van Hoffen

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

I have learned from sheer experience NEVER to look at a patient from a
single point of view.

I look at them and repertorise them from the presenting complaint, the past
history, causation, emotions, mentals, generalities, physical findings, then
try to find a common thread, if there is one; if not I first address the
presenting complaint, after all that is what the patient came for!

When I mess up and finally find the right remedy, I have a look at the
previous repertorisations and I see that the remedy was always there, but
not very obvious some times...

And often, if I am not right, the patient throws a nasty physical condition
that gives me a smack on the head and points very clearly to the right
remedy.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".

[Rochelle Marsden]

Hi Jon,
Thanks for giving us the insights to your cases. It is great the way people share their information on this list and that is one of the best things about it.
Regards,
Rochelle

Jon wrote
This was the case of a 4 y.o. boy (he is the son of a friend of my wife, so
I had seen him around the place). Main complaint chronic runny nose, with
sore throat and sore eyes.
www.rochellemarsden.co.uk

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