Case management question.

[Maria Bohle]

Hi Friends,

I have a case I would like a little feedback on.

Person has all the signs and modalities of Rhus tox (except add
heartburn to his symptoms continuted motion, etc, continue
despite the Rhus tox.

Now, I know we are looking at more of an 'acute' with those Lyme sx as
they came on fast and were overcome by the remedy pretty quickly, but why
not much success with the more entrenched symptomology? Should I change
potencies to a C potency in water? I think the 'chronic' symptomology is
quite stubborn (has had it for many, many years), so am not all that
surprised. What are your thoughts on something like this?

Would you consider doing an anti-miasmatic?

I know that Lyme symptoms are syphiletic (spirochete is a cousin of
syphilis), and a single LM dose of syphilinum seemed to be enough to
remove that layer after my lyme disease. Perhaps I should consider
giving him a dose of that remedy, but my thoughts are to do it in a C
potency or 1M, then return to the LM of Rhus.

How long should I wait after giving an anti-miasmatic remedy to follow up
with the Rhus tox again?

There is no reason that Rhus tox should not work with this case, the
picture is there and pretty complete.

Thanks for any feedback, I am happy to hear your thoughts on this.

And a warm Happy Thanksgiving wish to all from the USA.

Maria

[Tanya Marquette]

for what my little 2 cents is worth: i also rep out as rhus tox w/ poison ivy and some other sx, but it was rhus v that worked to control it. it appears that rhus v is a more virulent toxin than rhus t, with many other sx similar. this past summer i changed constitutional to anac which is dealing with many of the rhus sx i have. anac in C potencies never worked before on my PI but in LM's it is having a pretty decent effect on a number of chronic soft tissue problems and did not have PI after that this past summer. i also had lyme 2 yrs ago with severe bells palsy and residual effects of it. the anac seems to have alleviated the worst remaining effect--a griping and paralyzing pain in the occiput, right side < fatigue and stress. anac is in the same plant family as the rhus's i believe. something to ponder.

tanya

[Donna Earnest]

Maria,
Read Kents Lectures on Materia Medica. (page 1006)They talk about the similarities of Rhus and Tub. especially when Rhus no longer works or can't get in deep enough. See if this would help.
Donna

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

Funny, I just had a case to manage resembling this situation.

Patient comes in with horrible cough, repertorises perfectly (I mean
100%) Kali Carb......... no effect whatsoever, no matter what potency. I
try other less indicated remedies, other types of treatment, no cigar.
As soon as I gave her the Ignatia her mental state (explained to me on
the phone by her friend/employer) needed, she healed within 2 days.

To be complete, I also had the same week another patient to whom I gave
the "deep-seated" remedy without any effect, when I changed to the
symptomatic remedy, everything became OK and then she started reacting
to a new dose of the previous remedy.

I think it is you Maria, who described that the treatment of Lyme has to
take into account the state in which the patient was when acquiring
his/her disease. Seems to me this is the case here..........

Hope this helps.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".

[Gaby Rottler]

Hi Maria,
I'm sure you already changed the LM-potency of Rhus-t, to see if another
LM might be more effectfull in touching the case deeper.

Did you also think of other related remedies of this plant family
(Anacardiaceae), especially smaller ones like Rhus-a, Rhus-g, or even
remedies like Comocladia dentata or Rhus-v?

It could be a possibility!

Best,

Gaby

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gaby Rottler
Germany
rottler@curantur.de

http://www.curantur.de
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Maria,

Only one thought (and I wait with interest for others').
Re how long to wait, after giving a miasmatic remedy, before returning to
rhus-t? I *think* it would be a safe bet that you should (a) wait long
enough to see whether the miasmatic remedy is acting, and producing more
movement, and (b) long enough to see just how much it will do, and let
finish acting.

Somewhere in the Organon, H emphasizes that we must not "assume" that we
know what a remedy will accomplish, or what remedy will be needed next. You
give the best indicated remedy (even in a case such as this), give it a
chance to do all that it can. Then re-take the case.

(If you see no apparent reaction to the miasmatic remedy, I'd assume you'd
wait the usual 4-6 weeks anyway, for a non-emergency, chronic case?)

I was taught this in a very "watch and wait", 4th Organon context, but I
assume it would hold just as true with LMs.

Shannon
on 11/28/02 6:27 AM, Maria Bohle at MBohle@juno.com wrote:

[Paul Booyse]

Hi Maria,

Need to know more of the case, but the Sx you listed for Rhus are also in
its complementary, Calc Fluor. See if meets the rest of the case (Anxiety
money matters, scarring easily etc.)
And being a fluor fits Syph. miasm.

Regards,
Paul

[Dave Hartley]

Hi Maria,

I have a few thoughts on this

One is to think of trying Ledum as an intercurrent - in similar fashion as
nosodal intercurrent.
I think I would prefer this to the nosode, based on the cases I've read do
date.

I'm sure by now that you've looked at the rest of the Rhus family, and
probably looked at the "correspondences" (follows well, etc) to see if there
are any good ideas there.

The other idea I have, is to think more in terms of a "constitutional
intercurrent" .. defocussing your attention on presenting symptoms and
minimizing all the characteristic symptoms of Lyme, and selecting a Rx based
on the resulting totality.

The only lyme case I've seen was a chronic one - the totality of symptoms
pointed toward Nat-mur (and pretty much would have if I'd subtracted
supposed lyme symptoms from the case) - the remedy acted very deeply.

Personally, I would also be thinking (as mentioned offlist) of the
possibility of a cransiosacral session.. I've noted a number of times where
a chiropractic adjustment which "wouldn't hold" .. Did hold much longer
after a craniosacral session; with particular attention to the Atlas.

best,

Dave Hartley
www.Mr-Notebook.com
www.localcomputermart.com/dave
Seattle, WA 425.820.7443
Asheville, NC 828.285.0240

[Bob Needham]

Hi Dave
You mentioned intercurrent remedies - is there a particular protocol of
timing when using a remedy in this fashion?

Tks
Bob

[Dave Hartley]

Protocol ? (argh.)

I detest that word, as it carries for me connotations of routinism.
Even after the demurral of allopathically trained colleagues, who describe
protocol as a 'flexible' set of constraints (theoretically fully)
circumscribing the treatment of a given case-at-hand....
Nothing suits this definition to my mind, when it comes to homeopathy.
The whole theory, art, & practice of homeopathy (as we grasp "the whole" and
continue to learn more of it) is the only thing that seems to me to suit.

It is always important to be very reluctant to change a remedy which has
been working well.
There are three errors, says Hahnemann, that we are all liable to make :
"1st the selection of the improper remedy, 2nd, the improper potency; and,
3rd, not letting the remedy act a sufficient length of time."
When using the medicinal solution (liquid posology, per 5th Organon
recommendations for all potencies and 6th Organon recommendation carried
thru to new LM potency) .. we can first try increasing the size of the dose
&/or the dynamization of the dose. If this fails to provide a healing
response after suitable interval of time (depending on pace of case
heretofore) ..
In a case with other than LM potency, I would test (using ART techniques) to
see if a different potency showed potential susceptibility sans aggravation
(people who will not consider ART may be satisfied with
G.uessing A.t S.usceptiblity, I prefer using a physical examination
technique which has been proven by others, and taught to me, and proven to
my satisfaction in my own use) -those who rely on 'protocol' might generally
give a "test dose" of another potency, than wait & watch for some suitable
interval .. it is pretty common, especially with LM's, to progress up the
potency scale during treatment of chronic case... if moving up one LM step
did not move a case which had previously been progressing satisfactorily, I
might likely test a jump to two or three steps higher.

To set the stage for your question, the preceding .. plus the knowledge that
Maria is a very astute homeopath who is well aware of these things leaves us
little need to immediately consider the "three errors" mentioned above..
Maria likely has reason to believe that she has a well-chosen "simillimum"
which seems that it "should" still be moving the case forward.

My suggestion, which I would *hate* to have thought in terms of a protocol,
would simply be to consider a well-selected remedy that is focussed less on
particular presenting pathology and more on thinking of a "stuckness" at the
level of chronic miasmic basis of case; which may in some cases mean a
nosode, in others the appropriate anti-miasmic... with Lyme, we have what
appears to be a largely suitable anti-miasmic in Ledum. Just very generally,
(and needful of adjusting to suit the particular case) I would think that a
mid-high range potency, (centessimal or LM) one dose in medicinal solution;
wait & watch for period of time reasonable considering pace of the
intercurrent remedy, and pace of the case.. see where that takes things,
decide whether to go back & try the original Rx or not.

regards,
Dave Hartley
www.Mr-Notebook.com
www.localcomputermart.com/dave
Seattle, WA 425.820.7443
Asheville, NC 828.285.0240