carcinosin children

[Joy Lucas]

I am not sure who was offering some information regarding this but I thought
I would off you my thoughts.

I see quite a large number of children in my practice and an alarming number
turn out to be Carcinosin - maybe Rochelle would also like to write
something about this as I guess it is high on her prescriptions as well.

I think this high number has a lot to do with the socio/political lifestyles
of many families in Britain, i.e. class and all that goes with it.
Carcinosin is very much a middle and upper class remedy. It is often said we
are a nation of Nat Mur's (stiff upper lip and surrounded by sea salt as we
are, and all that), so you can begin to see the pattern emerging of the need
to prescribe this remedy often.

I am only giving this as a background to understand a bit more about
Carcinosin as it is a remedy often allied to Nat Mur. In fact you could make
a triangle of Natrum Mur - Staphysagria - Phosphorous and put Carcinosin in
the middle.

Carcinosin is multi-miasmatic and a lot depends on what other influences are
inherited in the child. These influences would obviously make it lean more
towards sycotic, syphilitic, psoric tendencies.

Suppression is at the heart of Carcinosin - this can be a physical
suppression such as an early skin condition. I will stick my neck out and
say that many middle class and upper class parents cannot tolerate the idea
of their kids having a yukky skin condition so they will be whipped off to
the allopaths in no time at all and the suppression begins.

Aligned with the physical suppression is the emotional - love is given in a
very controlled way, perhaps nannies are involved, the parents hardly ever
really see their kids, they are given love in a materialistic manner, i.e.
lots of toys, they need to be seen and not heard, too many strict rules
about what they mustn't do. This latter has a lot to do with mess, dirt,
untidyness, running around (all the things that kids SHOULD BE, but they
mustn't be), which brings us back to the intolerance of a skin condition - a
sense of disgust. So the children develop a life full of order and
fastidiousness. Control.

The child is thus taught not to be dependent on the parents, they have to
become self sufficient and controlled (the stiff upper lip).

Another aspect is the parents often have huge expectations of their
children. Emotions have been suppressed but they are expected to develop
intellectually instead. Intellectual without being truly artistic. So in
this sense the child becomes a hard worker at school and big achievers. Very
serious in their work and quite reserved.

Yet another form of control is all their normal childhood fears are
suppressed - remember how fearful a phosphorus child would be and imagine
all that suppressed and what might evolve out of this.

Control, order and duty is what is taught and so the children develop along
those lines and by the time puberty arrives the damage has been well and
truly done and this is an age where disease states begin to emerge, if they
haven't already. Sexual awareness is often the first to start causing
problems.

When love isn't given freely to a child then self worth hardly has a chance
to develop - so you might have someone who becomes entirely subservient, a
martyr even, totally controlled by a sense of duty. Feelings of blackness
and gloom - but not in the Aurum sense because underneath you often feel
that there is a really nice person trying to get out but they have a deep
sense of sadness about them.

If control is seen to be the key then you will witness ritualistic states,
fastidiousness, miserly and suspicious.

If some fear remains, say with a tubercular influence you will have people
who need to be stimulated all the time, want to travel, become addictive
maybe, even addicted to sexual matters.

With a psoric influence you are more likely to get total indecision, an
inability to commit to anything, apathetic states, and loads of allergies
are present - this is often how they come to Homeopathy.

Well, I am sure you get the picture and I hope this is of use.

Regards, Joy Lucas

[Jan Klüssendorf]

Dear Joy,

Very interesting picture.
Thank you for that.
And I guess, quite a correct analysis of problems which might be linked with
'modern parenthood'.
But could you pls, if you like, alaborate a little more on:

" Yet another form of control is all their normal childhood fears are
suppressed - remember how fearful a phosphorus child would be and imagine
all that suppressed and what might evolve out of this. "

In what way do/could parents (or other) suppress the fears of (their)
childs?
Could you give some examples?

Jan

[Rochelle]

Talking about Carcinosin children I have had 2 cases of children that needed
the remedy and had a SRP symptom told to me from both their mothers. It was
that in the summer they pile on the clothes and in the winter they take them
off and the mums can't get a coat on them when they go outside.!!!
Regards
Rochelle
www.rochellemarsden.co.uk
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[Rochelle]

Hi Joy,
An excellent explanation of Carcinosin states. I do give a lot of it for all
the reasons that you have stated. I am constantly amazed the way it seems to
cure the so called milk allergy that mums tell me their kids have!! The
eczema associated with this goes as well.
Regards,
Rochelle
www.rochellemarsden.co.uk
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[jdurfeeathome]

In a message dated 11/3/2002 5:31:51 AM Mountain Standard Time,
joy.lucas@ntlworld.com writes:
Hello Joy and all,

Here in the states I can say with certainty that the lower economic class do
not allow their children to dwell in a state of yucky skin conditions, having
lived and worked in their neighborhoods and homes for 15 years. Their
repression of disease is as significant and prevalent as any other group of
society, perhaps even worse. Especially amongst the black population where
mental and emotional suppressions reign supreme, almost ingrained into
parenting and child rearing practice as a survival mechanism. There is also a
lack of a stable father in about 50% of us black homes. Many different types
of cancer statistics are higher in US black population, as well as diabetes.
This observation is less related to race as a whole as it is to what
challenges a race and cultural entity faces in the US culture.

I see less repression with children on the mental and emotional levels
amongst US Mexican Americans as children are frequently adored and allowed to
play spontaneously in the majority of families and there is a close
physical/mental/emotional contact between parent and child, at least in first
generation US residents. What presents more there is sycotic miasm,
undoubtedly from the gonorrhea that is so widespread in Mexico and the TB
miasm, a close runner up. But here again much suppression goes on with all
discharges as medical care is readily available.

What had not been said about carcinocin is that the miasm is found in a large
portion of the population and statically 70 to 80 percent of the US
population is destined for cancer of some form if they live to old age.

Some homeopaths are giving it frequently with great success.

If this is a relatively new miasm in the population would not its overlay be
closer to the surface than some of the other miasms? I would think that it
is better to treat the miasm before the cancer presents itself. If one
remembers that at least 70% of people walking into the office have the cancer
maism brewing one should be more inclined to treat it. Remember, cancer is
known for little symptomology before the lesion makes itself known through
symptomology. Much of its picture can be confused with other remedies and it
is not a debilitated person or one with many symptoms that often gets cancer.

When you consider the work that Ramakrishnan does in cancer and the results
he gets with carcinocin and it is clear that at least 50% or more of his
patients get it.

It seems to me that the name of the game is to figure out when the cancer
miasm is potentially present and to treat it early as it course of progress
once developed in the body is insidious and rapid.

I think we still have a lot to learn about this remedy and its sphere of
action.

Carcinocin/Sacc site http://www.tinussmits.com/english/ Go to Inspiring
Homeopathy page.

Best,
Barbara
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Joy,

I really appreciate your sending this, as Carc is one of those remedies I've
been struggling to grasp. The more I've read, the less sure I've become!!!

Some years back I had an experience of a different aspect/presentation of
carc in my then-toddler son, which I would love to hear your (or others')
thoughts and feedback on. Asking your collective indulgence (smile), this
is a somewhat personal story, but I'm hoping it will bring up issues of
interest, so...

J's first remedy was Med, received in utero, when I developed a sharp,
sudden and very intense Med state. The patient was me, but it clearly
affected him, as after my dose he went from rather hyperactive (I called him
"my little dancer", because he was always bouncing and spinning!) to
(apparently) calm and quiet. In his first ten months after birth, he was
extremely healthy, cheerful, playful, *very* sociable, whacky sense of humor
and just delighted with life (tho also strikingly oversensitive to
overstimulation, which put me on notice that some other remedy would likely
be needed in the future!).

Troubles began when he weaned himself at 10 months. Over the year that
followed, the situation degenerated quickly and horribly. He developed
severe allergy to one food after another -- anything he ate regularly, it
seemed, he became intolerant of within anywhere from a week to a couple of
months. He changed from a fat and happy child, to one that looked thin,
peaked and unwell, and miserable. Bedtimes (which has always been
challenging, as he'd rather play!) became a nightmare, and I would routinely
spend two hours (sometimes more) trying to settle him -- we read *reams* of
books every night; we cuddled; I sang; and in between, he played. But he
was so wired, so tightly wound, that even on a good night, sleep was a
hard-won prize. On a bad night, I wondered if I would simply go crazy from
exhaustion.

Days were not a lot better. By 18 months (or so) he was quite beside
himself much of the time. Desperately wanted *something*, didn't know what
it was. Demanding something (e.g. "Mama get juice!"), but if anything went
amiss -- e.g. Dad brought it instead, or even (honestly!) Mama brought it,
but put it 2/3 of an inch to the left of "here", he would go into shreiking,
screaming fits. The issue (as I saw it) wasn't to "control" me (tho that
was certainly the effect!), but simply that he was miserable, suffering, and
trying to figure out what might make it better.

There were other details (many!), but this is enough for the general
picture.

As things degenerated, our family homeopath tried heroically to figure out
what was needed. In the earlier days J got (single doses, with weeks and
then months in between; I have *no* sense that his problems were caused by
"overdosing", in case anyone wonders) Phos (at that point he was still
sparkly and sunny, but obviously allergic), Sulph, Arg-nit, Verat. Maybe
others, I forget.

During this time I had been reading as much as I could, looking for that
answer, and read some things about carc that made it seem a possibility.
E.g. someone (who?) wrote of a wide spectrum of presentation of carc
children, some of the "too-good" variety, others of the "little hellion"
variety, and others in between.

I read thru the extracted rubrics of the remedy, and found many that
intrigued me. Some e.g.s, tho this is only a quick grab:

MIND; ABUSIVE, insulting (K1, SRI-7, G1)*
MIND; AFFECTION; desires; children*
MIND; ANGER, irascibility; general; causeless (SRI-31)*
MIND; ANGER, irascibility; general; children, in (SRI-31)*
MIND; ANGER, irascibility; general; mistakes, over his (K2, SRI-35, G2)*
MIND; ANGER, irascibility; general; temper tantrums*
MIND; ANGER, irascibility; general; violent (K3, SRI-39, G2)*
MIND; ANGUISH (K3, SRI-40, G2)*
MIND; ANXIETY (K4, SRI-54, G3)***
MIND; CAPRICIOUSNESS (K10, SRI-119, G8)*
MIND; CARESS, caressed; desire for being (SRI-124)*
MIND; CENSORIOUS, critical (K10, SRI-126, G9)*
MIND; CHANGE; desire for (SRI-127)*
MIND; CHEERFULNESS, gaiety, happiness; general (K10, K65, SRI-128, G9, G52)*
MIND; CONTRADICTION; intolerant of (K16, SRI-184, G14)*
MIND; DESTRUCTIVENESS (K36, SRI-397, G28)*
MIND; DISCONTENTED, displeased, dissatisfied; children*
MIND; DISOBEDIENCE (K37, SRI-413, G29)*
MIND; EXCITEMENT, excitable; desire for (SRI-453)*
MIND; EXCITEMENT, excitable; general (K40, SRI-446, G32)*
MIND; EXTROVERTED (SRI-144)*
MIND; EXUBERANCE (SRI-464)*
MIND; IMPRESSIONABLE, susceptible (SRI-606)****
MIND; IRRITABILITY; general; children, in (K58, SRI-661, G47)*
MIND; IRRITABILITY; general; trifles, from (SRI-672)*
MIND; IRRITABILITY; general; causeless*
MIND; PRECOCITY (K69, SRI-800, G55)*

Point being, these (and many others!) suggest possibility of many
presentations quite different from the "doormat" etc. one! Including,
apparently, my son's.

(He did have a couple of carc keynotes, in that he would dance (on a good
day), and he absolutely adored soup, any kind.)

Anyway, in a nutshell, our homeopath brushed off the idea of carc, pointing
out that he was much too this, or not enough that, but I gave it anyway (we
were out of other ideas!), and the result was quite striking and gratifying.
Within a day he had started to settle, and within a week he was quite his
old self again (well, nearly), and his horrible diarrhea switched off like a
faucet (sorry). I was *very* cautious about testing out his allergies, but
within a few months it became clear that he really didn't have them any
more, and has none to this day (six years later).

In another half year or so he'd started to unravel again, with clear Med sxs
and went back on that again --buckets of it over the next few years -- with
good result...

One musing: I think about the statement that carc people have a history of
"domination"; and I think about what it took to get thru the day with little
Jack in those days, and I wonder whether some of those kids were "dominated"
simply as an alternative to putting mom onto the funny farm... As a
stay-at-home mom with *lots* of support (thank God!), I was able to manage
him without e.g. tying him to a chair, duct taping his mouth (sorry, weak
attempt at humor, here), that is, I was able to follow his leads in a
desperate attempt to help, rather than "dominating" him enough to get on
with "business as usual" (weren't none of *that* happening at our house! I
mean, none of "business as usual", nor the rest...). But if I'd had a job,
or other young ones to care for, well, it would have been a very different
story (she shudders).

Carc was clearly not his "deepest" remedy (at least not if you subscribe to
the one-remedy theory), but the effects of that one dose were (so far)
permanent, and very deep. in my this case, I'm confident that the state
*didn't* come from anything done to him, but from (I guess) that good ol'
genetic/miasmatic predisposition...

Well, given that, I would love to hear others' thoughts and observations
about some of the various ways that carc can look (esp. in little ones, but
also in adults), and what things might especially lead one to consider carc
in a case?

The things that I especially think of as characteristic (and I'm eager for
feedback on these) include oversensitivity (physical and emotional);
multiple allergies (which, now that I think, was what first made me consider
it for Jack), weak boundaries, as well as the familiar physical
characteristics...

Ach, the household is all abuzz, so I'd better get off, but I look forward
to thoughts.

Cheers,
Shannon
on 11/3/02 5:35 AM, Joy Lucas at joy.lucas@ntlworld.com wrote:

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Barbara,

I agree with you that the lower economic strata (here in the US, anyway) can
be at *least* as suppressed, sometimes more so, and also that it is/was to
some extent a survival mechanism.

on 11/3/02 10:35 AM, jdurfeeathome@aol.com at jdurfeeathome@aol.com wrote:
But I *think* there needs to be some caution here.
I was taught -- very emphatically -- that nosodes need to be given with
care, because if you give the nosode of one miasm at a time when that miasm
is (altho perhaps present somewhere in the case) not currently "active",
that you can cause it to *become* active, and stir up needless trouble,
without any corresponding benefit.

Or, simply cause trouble in the *active* miasm. I had one case where med
was needed but tub was given (in retrospect and with fuller information, the
mistake was easy to see). The result was that the child went into a rapid
decline, and all the med symptoms because grotesquely exaggerated, such that
he was basically bedridden. (Prior CC had basically been extreme
restlessness, but certainly no debility!)

I guess this is one reason that I am very eager to understand what "defines"
cancer miasm (I think Will Taylor calls it "psuedo-tubercular"?), because I
am reluctant to give carc within feeling pretty sure that's the current
miasmatic lay of the case. I would *never* give carc just because of e.g.
cancer in the family, had cancer once, or the idea that it's "brewing"
somewhere; I would *need* to see that they are showing *current* signs of
*active* cancer miasm! And wishing to have a better sense of what those
are.

For curiosity, have any of you folks had experiences where an out-of-turn
nosode caused problems? Maybe this is an unusual case, but it certainly
made an impression on me...

Shannon
Remember, cancer is

[Shannon Nelson]

E.g. insist they sleep alone in a dark room, screams notwithstanding?
(It's a "popular" approach here...)

Then there's always "Don't be a sissy!", etc.
Shannon
on 11/3/02 7:14 AM, Jan Klüssendorf at jk@airstop.be wrote:

[Wendy Howard]

Hi Joy

I'd certainly agree with you about Carcinosin in the UK. I find it
applicable across all social strata regardless -- no particular bias towards
the upper end of the scale.

Best
Wendy

[Jan Klüssendorf]

OK, I get the picture,
but is this a 'new' attitude of 'modern parenthood'?
As I recall it, the 'don't be a sissy-reaction' of parents was much more
present in the old days as it is now a days, don't you think?
Parents these days incline much more (in comparison to our parents) to keep
children 'fear free', maybe with the opposite effect.
I for one remember very well those cruel fairy tales (think at Grimm for
instance) our parents (and others) told us all the time.
One doesn't hear them anymore these days...
Maybe the suppression of the childhood fears works opposite (as with a lot
in live): the more you try to keep 'things' away from your child, to more
impact those 'things' might have on them later....
Just a thought.

Jan